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Sentence structure?

Putrefaction

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Let's say my sentence is "My goal is to pass the JLPT2".

Now, in Japanese, would it be:
[my] Goal (wa) pass JLPT2 (desu)

or

pass JLPT2 (wa) goal (desu)

or am I getting it completely wrong? I mean, the main idea is passing the JLPT2. I think it's the first one but I can't explain why.
 

grapefruit

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Let's say my sentence is "My goal is to pass the JLPT2".
Now, in Japanese, would it be:
[my] Goal (wa) pass JLPT2 (desu)
or
pass JLPT2 (wa) goal (desu)
or am I getting it completely wrong? I mean, the main idea is passing the JLPT2. I think it's the first one but I can't explain why.

It depends on the context. But, I'll try to explain. The following would be the rough correspondences.

[my] Goal (wa) pass JLPT2 (desu) = My goal is to pass the JLPT2
pass JLPT2 (wa) goal (desu) = to pass the JLPT2 is my goal

The former would be, I believe, more normative. The sentence will be most like to appear first in the native speaker's mind. Also, since "my goal" is topicalized by the particle wa. It could be an answer to someone asking, "What's your goal (of learning Japanese)?"

The latter one is probably less likely to come to the native speaker's mind when there is no specific context involved. This might be probably the same in English. Which one comes to you mind first, "my goal is to pass the JLPT2" or "To pass the JLPT2 is my goal"? Anyway, since "pass JLPT2" is marked by the particle "wa", it could be answer to a question like "why do you want to pass JLPT2?"

also, don't forget to put the nominalizing expression "no" after the verb "pass".
 

Buntaro

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X,

In Japanese, the object comes before the verb. For example, in Japanese, we do not say

I buy candy.

we say

I candy buy.

This cause the whole sentence to become backwards (when viewed from the perspective of an English speaker). In Japanese, we do not say

I buy candy at a store.

We say

I store at candy buy.

Please remember the first thing to do is reverse the verb and object. Do not say

pass JLPT2

You should say

JLPT2 wo pass suru
 

Putrefaction

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Right, so if it's SOV (subject object verb), the subject is I, the object is the JLPT, and the verb is...pass.

So...wait, what? Watashi no (goal) wa (pass)no JLPT2...desu? Ah, I have no idea...well, I know you don't have to say watashi if you're talking about yourself, so that narrows it down to...

JLPT (pass) wa (goal) desu?
 
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Toritoribe

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You can use the nominalizer "koto" in that case.
"to pass the JLPT2" ? JLPT2 ni pass koto

[Watashi no] goal wa JLPT2 ni pass koto desu.


When the clause "JLPT2 ni pass" is the subject, both the nominalizer "koto" and "no" can be used.

JLPT2 ni pass koto ga [watashi no] goal desu.
or
JLPT2 ni pass no ga [watashi no] goal desu.

"No" sounds more colloquial.
 

Putrefaction

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This is a bit above me, I think, I just started doing I eat, I drink, etc... I have absolutely no comprehension of this.
 

grapefruit

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nominalizers such as ''no" and "koto" function to change verbs into nouns. English has nominalizing devices such as "~ing" or "to". When you say "my goal is to pass the JLPT2," you add extra "to" in front of the verb pass or change "pass" into "passing" as in "my goal is passing the JLPT2." By doing so, verbs can be used as nouns in English. Similar processing is required in Japanese too.

The "X wa Y desu" structure requires X and Y to be nouns. Since "pass" is a verb, you need to change the Japanese verb "pasu suru" into a noun form "pasu suru koto" or "pasu suru no."
 

undrentide

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The "X wa Y desu" structure requires X and Y to be nouns. Since "pass" is a verb, you need to change the Japanese verb "pasu suru" into a noun form "pasu suru koto" or "pasu suru no."

And note that verb+no type of nominalization cannot be used for complement.
e.g.
You can say:
Watashi no mokuhyou wa JPLT 2 ni goukaku suru koto desu.
(my goal is to pass JPLT 2)
JPLT 2 ni goukaku suru koto ga watashi no mokuhyou desu.
JPLT 2 ni goukaku suru no ga watashi no mokuhyou desu.
(To pass JPLT 2 is my goal)

but you cannot say
Watashi no mokuhyou wa JPLT 2 ni goukaku suru no desu.
It just sounds wrong.
 

Putrefaction

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...That cleared it right up! undrentide's will take some reading over to get down but yeah, for the most part I get it.
Thanks guys! I've been doing review of the Kanji i know, writing it over and over to see if I get ti right with the stroke and eveyrthing. A little off topic, but just so I don't make a new topic or anything, is stroke pattern HIGHLY paid attention to in Japan? For instance, the symbol for year (nen) is a drawn a little differently than what I'd draw it as, I drew it linearilly from top to bottom only to find out the vertical stroke was the last! Would I get chastised?
Edit, while I'm off topic:

Does that say: rounku ni (fire)o tomusu / yameru? I always get confused with the katakana n and so.
 
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becki_kanou

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Stroke order is very important and you should learn it as you learn each kanji to avoid picking up bad habits that will hamper you in the future.

The picture says "Rousoku ni hi wo tomosu" (Light the candle.)
 

Putrefaction

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Fair enough, thanks. I always get confused with so and n, tsu and shi in katakana, they look similar to me. I figured out through a dictionary that it was candle, fire and the rest is light. :)
 

Buntaro

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X,

Everybody keeps throwing the word 'nominalizer' at you, and they haven't taken enough time to explain what it means. Let's take a look. When you nominalize something, you turn it into a noun. That is what 'nominalizer' means. For example, we can say in English,

I like to watch TV.

We can also say

I like watching TV.

Both the phrases 'to watch TV' and 'watching TV' are nouns.

Take a look at this example.

Watching TV is fun.

In the above example we have the same thing, where the phrase 'watching TV' is a noun.

Here are two more examples.

I like TV.

I like to watch TV.

In the above example both 'TV' and 'watch TV' are nouns.

Now, let's see how this works in Japanese. We can say in Japanese,

Watashi wa terebi ga suki desu. (I like TV.)

Watashi wa terebi o miru no ga suki desu. (I like watching TV.)

Watashi wa terebi o miru no ga suki desu. (I like watching TV.)

Watashi wa terebi o miru koto ga suki desu. (I like watching TV.)

Does that make sense so far?
 

Putrefaction

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Makes perfect sense so far, thanks a lot, man!

Now I gotta go to sleep to wake up at 6 AM...Black Friday work...I'll review this tomorrow and see if it makes sense.
 

grapefruit

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I like TV.
I like to watch TV.
In the above example both 'TV' and 'watch TV' are nouns.

This is off topic, but I always wonder if "to watch TV" is a noun or "watch TV" is a noun. In the vast majority of sentence structures in English, "to watch TV" appears to function as a noun. However, sentences that start with "all~ to do" takes the latter like, "All I want to do is have some fun."
 

Putrefaction

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In my threads it's always ok to go off topic, better than making new ones :LOL:.

I think, if Im not mistaken, nouns can get a 's to it. So, in the sentence "To watch TV's stupid", its being treated like a noun. All I want to do's have some fun.

Here, more off topic!
99314899sb5-1.jpg

Fuangu no kaado o (symbol for hand, which means it was obviously given to you). Did I get that right, Fuangu? Or is it like Fangu?
 
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Buntaro

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grapefruit,

You are correct, I should have said "to watch TV" is a noun (I forgot the 'to.') Isn't it called a nominalized phrase, or something spiffy like that...?

We also have the example,

"What you see is what you get."

I believe that both wh- phrases function as nouns.

"Seeing is believing."

Same here.

~~~

The fun part is, keeping track of these 'nouns' helps us make accurate translations into Japanese. Hey X, you want to try to translate these two examples into Japanese?
 

Putrefaction

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Well, I haven't really done conjugation or anything that, but I know miru is see, nan(i o) is what (in this case i think it would be nani o, because you are describing an object), the subject is anata (not said).

I think the point is when you can add 's to a part of a sentence it is a now. "What you see's what you get". Or isn't a noun a thing followed by "is"? Peter is, the dog is, mary is, running is, etc.
 

becki_kanou

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Well, I haven't really done conjugation or anything that, but I know miru is see, nan(i o) is what (in this case i think it would be nani o, because you are describing an object), the subject is anata (not said).

I think the point is when you can add 's to a part of a sentence it is a now. "What you see's what you get". Or isn't a noun a thing followed by "is"? Peter is, the dog is, mary is, running is, etc.

What is your native language?

You seem to be confusing possessive 's (Jim's book, the girl's cat) with 's used as an abbreviation of is/has (He's 10 years old. She's lived there for a long time.)

Also, in your last example 手に入れる (てにいれる) means "get" so "(You) got the Fang Card".
 

Putrefaction

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English, but I suck at speaking...writing...grammar.....
 

Putrefaction

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Insulting? I'm insulting myself, I blow! I know I blow. I can't talk lol.
68499937ol2-1.jpg

Should be-- now day's serving thing(work) [wa], right?

I have a lot of trouble with so/n and tsu/shi in katakana.

53570652gl8-1.jpg

Suteirutsukin?

Sorry about this guys, I'm just playing a few video games to get my kata/hira accurate and up to speed.

And let's say someone asked me the time, to which it is 9:55.
(Ima nanji desu ka?)
Kuji gojugofun desu. Correct?
 
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Kirakira1232

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"Now day" can be translated as "Today" no? lol

今日の仕事は、
Kyou no shigoto wa...
Today's work/job is...

The katakana I believe is...

"Sutiiru tsukiso"
Steal ???

And your third question about the time is correct..
 

undrentide

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I believe that スティルツキン sutirutsukin is a character's name made up by the person who made FF9.
From the sound of it, I assuem it was taken from Rumpelstiltskin (from German Rumpelstilzchen).
Rumpelstiltskin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Games and anime are good as motivation to learn Japanese but not really appropriate when it comes to vocabulary, because there are so many "fancy" names and terms...



 

Kirakira1232

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I believe that スティルツキン sutirutsukin is a character's name made up by the person who made FF9.
From the sound of it, I assuem it was taken from Rumpelstiltskin (from German Rumpelstilzchen).
Rumpelstiltskin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Games and anime are good as motivation to learn Japanese but not really appropriate when it comes to vocabulary, because there are so many "fancy" names and terms...

Ahhh my katakana recognition must be slipping :p
 
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