Romance Haiku?

[Emoni]

I guess this is a very LARGE question. But I was trying to find more about Haiku, and if it could be used romatically.

I know little about Haiku and how it is written other then the 5-7-5 pattern. I have an idea of what I want to write, but I need to know of places to look on how to get the idea across correctly without looking like a clueless *****. Will probably take a bit of Kanji study as well.

I don't suppose anyone is a master of Haiku here

(Edit: Wow it censored the word Mo-ron? )

 

[Golgo_13]

Emoni,

I assume you want to write Haiku in Japanese, in which case you would need to attain fluency.

A lot of Americans think Haiku can be written in English but this is not the case. A teacher I had in 4th grade in New York tried to make us all write "Haiku" by writing 3 lines in English with 5-7-5 syllabels. I tried to tell her that doing so made about as much sense as trying to make Japanese poems rhyme.

Japanese syllables are totally different from English syallables. A Japanese syllable is not really a sylable in the English sense but more a single, distinct sound (see below)

The most famous Haiku in Japan goes something like:

Furu ikeya
Kawazu tobikomu
Mizu no oto

translation:
A serene old pond
A frog jumps in
The splash of the water.

the 5-7-5 pattern gives it a certain rhythm in Japanese, much like the way a poem written in English sounds better if the lines rhyme.

Broken down into individual sounds:

Fu-ru i-ke ya (5 sounds)
Ka-wa-zu to-bi-ko-mu (7 sounds)
Mi-zu no o-to (5 sounds)

Take a look at an un-romantic silly Haiku I just made up:

Asa okite
kisu o suruma'e
ha o migake

Can you see that the lines are made up of 5-7-5 sounds?

It translates into:

Waking up in the morning
Before we kiss
brush your teeth

this one's better:

Kanojo ni wa
Kireina ohana
Agemashita

For my girl
Beautiful flowers
As my gift.

I guess unless you are a fluent Japanese speaker, what you could do is think of what you want to say first in English, then combine Japanese words that will have the same meaning and still retain the 5-7-5 pattern.

Hope that helps.

If you have any more questions feel freee to message me. I'll be happy to take a look at what you've written.

Golgo Sensei

 

[Emoni]

Arigatou

Thank you. Yes, it mean to write it in Japanese. It is actually my target minor for college. I'm just a beginner now, but I'm at a point where I think I could produce "something." I always was confused with people write "english haiku" or even bother. From every single person I talk to that knows haiku, it isn't even the same thing

I have an idea of the haiku I want to write, after I get it "kind of" together I'll send it to you through a message. Appreciate the offer

 

[Emoni]

So far...

Ok, here is what I have so far. Switched to a tanka since it made far more sense to do so...

あなたの目
美しいと
賢いも
精神が強い
さようなら姫

I know there are a few errors in there, such as me on the first line ( I think) and mo I want to replace on the third.

Comments? This is extremely important to me, so if you see anything at all wrong, please feel free to say.

Thanks

 

[Arashi]

Golgo, not a completely fair comparison, as Japanese poems can be rhymed (and often are) effectively.

Remember to put a season word in (for haiku).

 

[Emoni]

Not haiku now

Well, not using Haiku now so doesn't matter ;P Tanka fits far better. I'd change the topic, but can't access it anymore.

 

[Elizabeth]

Originally posted by Emoni
Ok, here is what I have so far. Switched to a tanka since it made far more sense to do so...

あなたの目
美しいと
賢いも
精神が強い
さようなら姫

I know there are a few errors in there, such as me on the first line ( I think) and mo I want to replace on the third.

Comments? This is extremely important to me, so if you see anything at all wrong, please feel free to say.

Thanks

I suppose grammatical sense may depend on the desire of the writer -- but just as a technical matter, does the second line have 7 sounds? (My count is just 5).

 

[Emoni]

Sounds

U tsu ku shi i to = 6 DOH!

From what I looked up it seems to count characters/kana not just the sounds. Hence Hen = 2 He + n

Utsukushii = 5.

I could be wrong, but from all the haiku I have read so far it is counting them this way.

If anyone has any good examples that prove otherwise by japanese haiku artists (I can't find many examples...) please let me know.

I want this to be perfect, and hoping my grammar isn't horribly incorrect. I don't want it to sound idiotic and make the person laugh

 

[Elizabeth]

Re: Sounds

Originally posted by Emoni
U tsu ku shi i to = 6 DOH!

From what I looked up it seems to count characters/kana not just the sounds. Hence Hen = 2 He + n

From what I understand, though, N is actually a stand alone syllable in Japanese (actually mora I believe is the term) in a way that "shi-i" isn't, or even two distinct sounds. As for counting kana...that would pretty much include everything except maybe the derivatives (shiyo, kyuu, etc) wouldn't it? You're probably better off getting expert advice on this one, though.

 

[Golgo_13]

Re: So far...

Originally posted by Emoni
Ok, here is what I have so far. Switched to a tanka since it made far more sense to do so...

あなたの目
美しいと
賢いも
精神が強い
さようなら姫

I know there are a few errors in there, such as me on the first line ( I think) and mo I want to replace on the third.

Comments? This is extremely important to me, so if you see anything at all wrong, please feel free to say.

Thanks

Like I said in my message to you, I don't know much about Tanka, but that sounds pretty nice.

However, in Japanese poetry you should avoid "me" as eye and use "hitomi" instead.

for example:

Utsukushii
Anata no hitomi
Itsumademo

Do a Tanka and a Haiku as extra credit :note: :note:



Sensei
G-13

 

[Emoni]

Ah...

Hitomi huh? Sounds good, also smoother. What is the difference between this and me?

As for the sylables, ya that is proving to be a problem. I need to find out for certain what is counted and what isn't. If it is each character or sound, because either way it completely changes what I might write.

This is gonna take a while, but hopefully it will sound good in the end.

 

[Golgo_13]

"Hitomi" is often used in song lyrics as well and it's more romantic and poetic, whereas "me" is plain, old "eye"

Hittomi is when Japanese people say "Hit me"

Sorry, couldn't resist

Let me know if there is anything else. Keep up the good work.

BTW, the translation for that Haiku I wrote spontaneously:

Beautiful
Your eyes
Eternally

Golgo Sensei



P.S. Take a look at the country song lyrics I've posted on "Do you write poetry?" thread

Do you write poems or songs?

 

[Emoni]

Blee

Not bad

One thing I'm worried about is my tanka sounding too cliche and boring. It is extremely hard when you don't know much of a langauge to be so specific about something of a person :/