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Please help me understand these two sentences! ~てもらう、~てくれる

AmayaSakurai

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I've only just started learning the ~てくれる、~てあげる and ~てもらう sentence patterns so please forgive me for my noob question.

It concerns the following two sentences:

1. 私は 家内に ネクタイを もらいました。

2. 家内は 私に ネクタイを くれました。

I'm a little confused as to what they mean exactly.

1. I received a necktie from my wife. (I had her give mea necktie. ???)

2. My wife gave me a necktie.

Am I even close to being right here? Please help!

NOTE: I am aware that Japanese doesn't use spaces when writing it's just that it makes it a little easier for me at the moment.
 

Chidoriashi

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I've only just started learning the ~てくれる、~てあげる and ~てもらう sentence patterns so please forgive me for my noob question.
It concerns the following two sentences:
1. 私は 家内に ネクタイを もらいました。
2. 家内は 私に ネクタイを くれました。
I'm a little confused as to what they mean exactly.
1. I received a necktie from my wife. (I had her give mea necktie. ???)
2. My wife gave me a necktie.
Am I even close to being right here? Please help!
NOTE: I am aware that Japanese doesn't use spaces when writing it's just that it makes it a little easier for me at the moment.

First, this is a great question, cuz these honestly suck and are easy to get mixed up I think.

Umm first I am not a native and this is just my opinion, but I feel like から is the more commonly used particle in the first sentence, as in 私は 家内から ネクタイを もらいました。 I feel like に would tend to be used for the following sentence 私は 家内 ネクタイを 買ってもらいました。

The nuance in this sentence is that you "got your wife to buy you a tie" whereas the first one is that you simply received a tie from your wife. This is the grammar you actually posted your question about right ~てもらう?

Anyhow your second sentence is fine for that meaning.

Most people get confused at when to use あげる vs くれる, and if you find yourself to be one of those people just remember that you only use あげる when it is you that did something for someone else. Whereas when somebody does something for you you should use くれる。 So to give you an example you would never say 私は友達に本をくれた。You would say 私は友達に本をあげた。 and the other way around you would never say 母は私に本をあげた。 you would say 母は私に本をくれた。
 

Toritoribe

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In addition to Chidoriashi-san's explanation, もらう focuses on the recipient, whereas あげる is on the giver. くれる also focuses on the recipient, but is used only when the recipient is the speaker or the speaker's in-group member(s).
 

Putrefaction

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I think Elizabeth said から was used in terms of animals?
 

Chidoriashi

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I think Elizabeth said から was used in terms of animals?

から can be used for anything to my knowledge. It is に on the other hand that is limited to people. Like you cannot say 政府にお金をもらった。It needs to be 政府からお金をもらった。

In any case I'm just speaking from my life experience, as in I hear.. (or maybe notice.. is the better word hehe) から....もらった, being used more often than に....もらった. I could be totally off base though, not being a native speaker.
 

AmayaSakurai

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Thank you so much for all your answers everyone!

あげる and くれる do not confuse me at all, but くれる and もらう drive me crazy! Could someone pleasse explain in it a little more detail for me please? The thing that drives me crazy is that they can both mean to RECEIVE. So how do I know when to use one or the other?

For example:

誕生日に 私は 家内に ネクタイを もらいました。

アリさんは 私に インドネシアの たばこを くれました。

Why can't the first sentence also be written with くれる since it also means to receive something? And why can't the second sentence also be used with もらう since that too implies that you have received something?

I'm sorry to be annoying with this question, but it's really hard for me to differentiate when to use くれる and when to use もらう.

Thank you for all the help!

NOTE: The reason why I am still using に in my example sentences and not から as some people suggested would be easier, is because I'm copying the examples from my textbook. And this textbook obviously wants to make my life difficult and never even once uses から for these verbs... >.>
 

Toritoribe

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You mean くれる also focuses on the giver?
Oh, sorry for that.:p Yeah, I meant "くれる also focuses on the giver".😌

あげる and くれる do not confuse me at all, but くれる and もらう drive me crazy! Could someone pleasse explain in it a little more detail for me please? The thing that drives me crazy is that they can both mean to RECEIVE. So how do I know when to use one or the other?

For example:

誕生日に 私は 家内に ネクタイを もらいました。

アリさんは 私に インドネシアの たばこを くれました。

Why can't the first sentence also be written with くれる since it also means to receive something? And why can't the second sentence also be used with もらう since that too implies that you have received something?

I'm sorry to be annoying with this question, but it's really hard for me to differentiate when to use くれる and when to use もらう.
It's surprisingly simple.;-)
When the recipient is the subject, もらう is used. On the other hand, when the giver is the subject, あげる/くれる is used. But くれる can be used only when the recipient is the speaker or the speaker's in-group member(s), as I wrote in my previous post.

誕生日に 私は 家内に ネクタイを もらいました。
私 is the subject and the recipient.

アリさんは 私に インドネシアの たばこを くれました。
アリさん is the subject and the giver. 私 is the recipient. So くれる is used here.

Thus, you can also say; "誕生日に 家内は 私に ネクタイを くれました。", "私は アリさんに インドネシアの たばこを もらいました。"
 

AmayaSakurai

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Oh, sorry for that.:p Yeah, I meant "くれる also focuses on the giver".😌
It's surprisingly simple.;-)
When the recipient is the subject, もらう is used. On the other hand, when the giver is the subject, あげる/くれる is used. But くれる can be used only when the recipient is the speaker or the speaker's in-group member(s), as I wrote in my previous post.
誕生日に 私は 家内に ネクタイを もらいました。
私 is the subject and the recipient.
アリさんは 私に インドネシアの たばこを くれました。
アリさん is the subject and the giver. 私 is the recipient. So くれる is used here.
Thus, you can also say; "誕生日に 家内は 私に ネクタイを くれました。", "私は アリさんに インドネシアの たばこを もらいました。"
Thank you so much for that!

Just one more thing and I won't bug you anymore:

When you say 'when the receiver is the speaker or person(s) inside of the speaker's group', you mean like friends, family and people of the same status?

So in the end, this is the formula that I came up with (my brain likes to work in formulas), tell me if this is right:

SUBJECT/AGENT が INDIRECT OBJECT に V-te あげる
giver recipient
empathy focus

SUBJECT/AGENT が INDIRECT OBJECT に V-te くれる
giver recipient
empathy focus

SUBJECT が AGENT に V-te もらう
recipient giver
empathy focus

Thank you! 😌
 

AmayaSakurai

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Oh and here's another thing! Thsi is one of the exercise questions from the textbook. They start the sentence for you and you have to chose the correct ending.

きのう 田中さんに けんしゅうりょこうに ついて せつめいして (a) もらいました。
                                       (b) くれました。

Which one is right?

If I pick (a), it would mean that Tanaka-san explained it to me. If I chose (b) it would mean that I explained it to him. Right?

Or, well, obviously not both can be right since I can only chose one.... >.>
 

Toritoribe

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Right. See the examples below.

彼は妹に花を買ってくれた。
彼は妹に花を買ってあげた。

妹 refers to my(the speaker's) sister in the first sentence, whereas it's his sister in the second one.


As I wrote, "くれる can be used only when the recipient is the speaker." Thus, (b) is incorrct, since 田中さん is the recipient in that sentence.;-) But you can use くれました if Tanaka-san is in your group (and someone(outsider) explained it to Tanaka-san).

きのう 田中さんに けんしゅうりょこうに ついて せつめいして あげました is used for "I explained it to Tanaka-san".
 

AmayaSakurai

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Right. See the examples below.
彼は妹に花を買ってくれた。
彼は妹に花を買ってあげた。
妹 refers to my(the speaker's) sister in the first sentence, whereas it's his sister in the second one.
As I wrote, "くれる can be used only when the recipient is the speaker." Thus, (b) is incorrct, since 田中さん is the receiver in that sentence.;-)
But you can use くれました if Tanaka-san is in your group (and someone(outsider) explained it to Tanaka-san).
きのう 田中さんに けんしゅうりょこうに ついて  せつめいして あげました is used for "I explained it to Tanaka-san".
Thank you so much! I have no more questions! XD

I'm sorry for bugging you but it just some time to figure it out. XD I hope that this post will be helpful to others as well some day!

I appreciate everyone's help! *hugs you* :)
 
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I hope that this post will be helpful to others as well some day!
This post just explained the difference between もらう and くれる to me, so it's quite helpful.

I wonder what verb do we use when we speak about interaction between 3rd persons, not related to the speaker? くれる?
その変な人はあの変な人に変な物を贈ってくれました。would that be ok?
 

Toritoribe

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くれる can be used only when the recipient of favor is the speaker or the speaker's in-group member(s). あげる is used for your case.

彼は妹に花を買ってくれました。
彼は妹に花を買ってあげました。

Here's the same examples again. As I wrote in this thread, 妹 refers to the speaker's sister in the former sentence, whereas she is his sister in the latter one. (Other's sister also can be possible in the latter sentence if it's obvious who her older brother/sister is from the context, though.)
 

healer

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彼は妹に花を買ってあげました。

If 妹 refers to his younger sister or someone else's younger's sister, shouldn't it be 妹さん instead while 妹 which usually refers to one's own younger sister?
 

Toritoribe

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When it's used in a narrative part of a story which is described from an objective viewpoint, no honorific title is common. Also, if the speaker is very close to her older brother, there is no problem with just 妹 even in spoken language.
e.g.
あいつの妹、かわいいよな。

妹さん could sound aloof/stiff in this case.
 
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