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Particle question

GoldCoinLover

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Well I figured out a fairly easy sentence, it says "There are Japanese translations below."

I found it at macveg.com, my friends website, in one of the persons journal entries.


(*下に日本語の訳あります。)


It uses the particle 'ni' which is confusing for me . Because it can be with time, direction, and any other million uses? Which use is it being used here? The rest I'm pretty sure I understand.

Ack, it isn't a particle. Rather, an attached hiragana to a particle. 😅

下に 【しもに】
(adv) down, below, downward


日本語 = japanese
の = possessive


訳 = translation(s)

arimasu = to be (for inanimate objects. I don't see why its used in this case, however. Please explain?)

Thank you
 

Buntaro

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Gold,
Here the particle ni indicates "motionless existence".
Empitsu wa te-buru no ue NI arimasu. (The pencil is ON the table.)

"Shita ni nihon go no yaku ga arimasu. (The Japanese translation is below.)
Watashi wa toukyou NI sunde imasu. (I live IN Tokyo.)

Your use of "arimasu" here translates as "is". The inanimate "arimasu" is used because a translation is indeed inanimate.
 

nice gaijin

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"ni" has quite a few uses, one of which is in conjunction with the "existence" verbs "iru/imasu" (animate) and "aru/arimasu" (inanimate) to say "where" something or someone is.

ジョーんさんは図書館(としょかん)にいます。
Joan is in the library.

卵(たまご)は冷蔵庫(れいぞうこ)にあります。
The eggs are in the refridgerator

for beginners this sometimes gets confused with the use of "de," which is used to denote where an action takes place.

海(うみ)で泳ぎます(およぎます)。
To swim in the sea

If you were to use "ni" instead of "de," the meaning would change to "to swim TO the sea." not a large change, but the meaning is quite different.
 

GoldCoinLover

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Buntaro said:
Gold,
Here the particle ni indicates "motionless existence".
Empitsu wa te-buru no ue NI arimasu. (The pencil is ON the table.)
"Shita ni nihon go no yaku ga arimasu. (The Japanese translation is below.)
Watashi wa toukyou NI sunde imasu. (I live IN Tokyo.)
Your use of "arimasu" here translates as "is". The inanimate "arimasu" is used because a translation is indeed inanimate.


I see, thank you. That helps alot. 4 people here are going to send me japanese books, one person already has from Osaka, japan. I live in the US arizona so its going to take awhile, hehe.

Here's a question for you, why didn't they use 'desu'? Like this "Translation (which is the subject right? Why didn't this go first?) below, is/are.

A translation is indeed inanmite, but doesn't that only refer to objects and not such concepts such as verbs as translations?

Interesting:p
 

nice gaijin

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desu is technically a (special) verb, and since the sentence ended in arimasu, desu isn't necessary. Desu is used more for identifying what something is ("such as I am American," or "this is a translation"). The sentence you translated is less about identifying what the stuff is below, but rather to say where to find the translation.

Don't think of the use of these verbs in terms of direct translation, or you'll be thinking of these sentences in very strange english and talking to yourself like Yoda on crack. Once you become used to the verbs you'll be able to understand the concept without having to think of the English equivalent, which is a much more effective way to understand a language.
 

Buntaro

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arimasu = to exist

desu = to be a member of a group (for the purpose of defining what it is)

Te-buru no ue ni empitsu ga arimasu. --> There is a pencil (existing) on the table.

Sore wa empitsu desu. --> That is (a member of the group of things called) a pencil.

~~~

One good way to keep track of it is to translate "arimasu" as "there is".
 

Elizabeth

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下(は)日本語訳です。 sounds fine to me. The implication is that a translation already known or under discussion is below.
 

Mike Cash

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I can't believe no one has pointed out that it is した and not しも for
下.
 

Elizabeth

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mikecash said:
I can't believe no one has pointed out that it is した and not しも for
下.
Shita (下) and shita (舌、tongue)being perfect examples of stand-alone kun readings that don't take hiragana by the way, Kevin. :p
 

Damicci

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Mike for teh win! I didn't catch that until Mike pointed it out.
I was going to add that you can use あります to say "have in posession"
わたし は ペン が ありません。 I do not have a pen.
せんせい は ぺん が あります。 Teacher has a pen.
such as another way to look at the translation could be:
Below HAS the Japanese translation. That maybe more literal translation which would make sense as to why あります was used over です. :p

I sent you a pm Kevin. Need more info about your address!
 

Elizabeth

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Damicci said:
Mike for teh win! I didn't catch that until Mike pointed it out.
I was going to add that you can use あります to say "have in posession"
わたし は ペン が ありません。 I do not have a pen.
せんせい は ぺん が あります。 Teacher has a pen.
such as another way to look at the translation could be:
Below HAS the Japanese translation. That maybe more literal translation which would make sense as to why あります was used over です. :p
I sent you a pm Kevin. Need more info about your address!
下に日本語訳あります。(Below ni (wa) is a translation/I have a translation.
下日本語訳です Below is the translation.
Depending on the context, it's probably the same difference between Yaku wa doko ni aru? and Yaku wa doko desuka? which is to say not very much.
 

Damicci

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Not being well conversed. I only know text book stuff. :p
I would be lost if I heard ~どこにある?
勉強勉強勉強
 

nice gaijin

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mikecash said:
I can't believe no one has pointed out that it is した and not しも for
下.
You know that's how I read it at first but to double check I threw it at a dictionary, and with the particle it came out as shimo, so I left it at that. I didn't even know it could be read as shimo... in what cases would that be the right reading for 下?
 

Buntaro

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I was once in Kyoto, asking for street directions. To go downhill the lady said shimo not shita. Maybe it is Kansai dialect.
 

Elizabeth

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Damicci said:
Not being well conversed. I only know text book stuff. :p
I would be lost if I heard ~どこにある?
勉強勉強勉強
Hehe, fortunately for you they would probably start giving you the directions after "doko"....You won't turn into a station either if you say "Ima watashi wa eki desu." It's like "benkyou wa kyoushitsu desu" (study in a classroom) or
Tobacco wa lobby desu. etc.
 

Damicci

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Haha those sentences make me laugh. I guess I am better off than I thought.
Haha heheh ahem....~はどこですか?
 

Mikawa Ossan

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nice gaijin said:
You know that's how I read it at first but to double check I threw it at a dictionary, and with the particle it came out as shimo, so I left it at that. I didn't even know it could be read as shimo... in what cases would that be the right reading for 下?
"shita" is the correct reading for general use. "shimo" is generally used when there is an upper and lower part of the same thing. For example, a river. There is a city called Shimonoseki 下関 and another place place not too far away called Kaminoseki 上関 in Western Japan. Another more obscure meaning of the reading "shimo" is "the countryside".
 

nice gaijin

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なるるるる

Thanks for the explanation, ossan, that makes much more sense! I had heard the countryside referred to as shimo before, but I'm much more familiar with the term "田舎"
 

Elizabeth

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I asked my boyfriend about this because I had never come across it before outside of place names and was curious as well. Here was his explanation (from someone who actually lives in a Kamitakaido a little to the West of Shimotakaido no less). 😌

それは丘の下(しも?)にあります。
と言ったのが話し方を間違えてしまったかもしれません。:p
→丘のしもは、ちょっと古風な感じがしますが間違いではないと思います。
 
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Glenn

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Those readings are also used in 上一段 and 下一段, which are upper and lower parts, as Mikawa Ossan said. Those are the only two I could think of right off hand.
 

Elizabeth

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I see, thank you. That helps alot. 4 people here are going to send me japanese books, one person already has from Osaka, japan. I live in the US arizona so its going to take awhile, hehe。
この人は、もしかしたら間違えって船便出で出してまったかもしれません。
(Do you think maybe this person mistakenly sent them by surface, rather than air, mail ?).
😅
 
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