What's new

Welcome to Japan Reference (JREF) - the community for all Things Japanese.

Join Today! It is fast, simple, and FREE!

Off Topic from "Did We Land on the Moon?

Pachipro

JREF Resident Alien
Rest in Peace
Joined
19 Jan 2005
Messages
1,831
Reaction score
225
Bellevance said:
No, the point is that Hoover's words are not truthful. They were not truthful when he spoke them, and they certainly do not imply that the moon landing hoax theories have any validity.

Instead, in hindsight, Hoover's words stand as evidence of his delusion. His words illustrate the feverish mindset of the conspiracy lover. In Hoover's day, the John Birch Society and writers like Robert Welch believed, for instance, that Karl Marx was in the pay of the Illuminati and that they had started both the French and Russian revolutions. Hoover and others bought into all this nonsense, too. No one today believes there ever existed a global communist conspiracy--or anything like it. And in 50 years, no one will doubt that Americans walked on the moon.
Ok Bellevance, since you fail to heed what I have written, and you are not alone, nor do you want to believe in any "conspiracies" and think that Hoover was just deluded in speaking out against a communist US of A in the 50's, I offer you the following from Karl Marx's manifesto in which he set forth "ten immediate steps to create an ideal communist state":

1. abolition of private property
(coming true with the massive foreclosurers/credit crisis today. Soon one will not be allow to own any property. They may be allow to own their home, but they will lease the land from the gov ernment as is being done in some countries in Europe today.)

2. a progressive or graduated income tax
(already implimented in the US)

3. abolition of all inheritances
(they are trying, thus the high inheritance taxes)

4. confiscation of all property of dissidents and emigrants
(the Patriot Act allows it and it is law. Any person arrested for any reason can have his personal property seized by the government and sold at auction. It just has to be acted upon whenever they wish)

5. Creation a monopolistic central bank with state capitol to control credit.
(does not the recent troubles in the US show that it is happening, as I write this, on a daily basis. It will soon come to fruition as it did in Europe with their ECB (European Central Bank). Just watch

6. Centralization oif all communication and transport.
(coming true with the buyouts of facebook, myspace, google, etc, by the major corporations. Next will be the auto industry bailouts and the bailouts of the airline industries. Soon you will not be able to travel or drive without a GPS device or chip in your car, on your person, or in your baggage.)

7. State control over factories and farm production.
(Coming true as I write. The auto industries will fail along with many, many other major corporations and the government will soon control them with bailouts and a "stimulus package". The family farm is a thing of the past and virtually all farming is now done by major conglomerates under the eyes of the government.)

8. Combining agriculture with manufacturing industries and the gradual distribution of the population to blur the distinction between towns and rural country.
(Happening as I write as it has been for the past 20 years)

9. State ownership of all capital and the creation of a deployable labor force.
(Again, happening as I write. When the major banks and brokerage houses fail and are bailed out by the government, they will control the capital as even President Obama himself yesterday limited executive pay to no more than $500,000 for those companies receiving bailout money from the government. If the government played by the rules it would let these companies fail and let true market forces take hold, but then they would not have any control would they? What you see today is just the beginning.)

10. Free public education to all children
(ie halls of indoctrination and propaganda to mold young minds to work for and obey the state. Obama's election and the mass hysteria surrounding the "Messiah" proves that they have succeeded. However, it will be too late when you finally understand that you have been duped and lied to agian, but you will still believe that the government knows best.

Still do not believe that Amerika is becoming socialist/communist today that Marx envisioned and the former Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev predicted Bellevance? Then it is you who is sadly deluded and a perfect product of the education system Marx so desired for the perfect communist state. You are living proof of it as you know nothing of the people in power and what they believe nor what their goals are.

It does not matter whether they are Republican or Democrat. They are two sides of the same coin and their goals are the same. They, along with the owned media, just convince people like you that they are two different parties with different goals and the needs of the populace at the forefront. Heck, the Bush administration did more to bring us closer to socialism/communist than any democrat since Roosevelt ever did with Patriot Acts I and II as no Democrat could ever have put it through with a "Republican" congress.

I can hear the sheeple now shouting in unision, "O-baaaa-ma, O-baaaaa-ma", like good little sheep being led to the slaughter. "O-baaaa-ma".

Yet factories are failing, millions are losing their jobs and homes, never to regain them; there are no more major factories in the US as they have only 16% of their manufacturing base left compared to the 50's, and 90% of what we buy is made in foreign countries. Soon we will be the country making things for China and India at "slave wages".

Yes, people like me are just conspiracy nuts and know nothing of what is going on, but why is it all coming true? The US is finished, kaput, and will not come out of this depression for many, many, years, and will join the One World Bank/government and depend on foreigners' money for their very existance and survival, and when the lenders finally crack the whip, the US will kowtow and do whatever they are told to do as they are broke and broken and depend on foreigners like China and Japan for their very survival. Sad, but true.

Yes, it is all a conspiracy to those that know nothing of, nor care what is going on in front of their very eyes and care nothing for doing their own research.

It is proved that the average college graduate in the US as of 2008 knows far less than the high school graduate of 1920 when it comes to history, geography, mathematics, science, English grammar, etc and is basically far less ignorant than his ancestors. I guess the book, "The Dumbing Down of America" was not that far off base, but most people probably have not read it as was expected.

The US is the first "undeveloping" nation the world has ever seen.

Based on your response to Hoover being deluded in the 50's and that the threat of communism/socalism is just a conspiracy, I leave you with this quote:

We cannot expect the Americans to jump from capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving Americans small doses of socialism until they suddenly awake to find they have Communism."

- Soviet Leader Nikita Khrushchev, 1959
Good morning!

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink!

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
 

Tsuyoiko

DON'T PANIC!
Joined
11 Mar 2005
Messages
3,060
Reaction score
165
I'll just comment on the bits I feel I know something about.

1. abolition of private property
(coming true with the massive foreclosurers/credit crisis today. Soon one will not be allow to own any property. They may be allow to own their home, but they will lease the land from the gov ernment as is being done in some countries in Europe today.)

Actually, it's more likely that the government's attempt to increase home-ownership caused the credit crisis. Link

Although I think you're right that leasehold properties are becoming more common, I don't think the land is owned by the government in most cases, but by property management companies or individuals, which is a far cry from Marx's ideal.

2. a progressive or graduated income tax
(already implimented in the US)

Being in Marx's manifesto doesn't make it a bad thing. I think it's only right that people with a higher disposable income should pay proportionately more.

3. abolition of all inheritances
(they are trying, thus the high inheritance taxes)

In the UK, 94% of all estates escape inheritance tax because their value is below the threshold of ツ≫??12,000. It seems to be more complicated in the US, but if I understand it correctly, the threshold increases this year from $2,000,000 to $3,500,000, and will be repealed next year, before being reintroduced in 2011 at a threshold of $1,000,000. Even at the 2011 figure, surely most estates will escape inheritance tax, so it can hardly be seen as a measure to abolish inheritance!

4. confiscation of all property of dissidents and emigrants
(the Patriot Act allows it and it is law. Any person arrested for any reason can have his personal property seized by the government and sold at auction. It just has to be acted upon whenever they wish)

I agree, that's quite worrying.

8. Combining agriculture with manufacturing industries and the gradual distribution of the population to blur the distinction between towns and rural country.
(Happening as I write as it has been for the past 20 years)

On the contrary, I think there are many measures in place to ensure the protection of the countryside. In the UK we have green belt land and internationally the National Parks.

10. Free public education to all children
(ie halls of indoctrination and propaganda to mold young minds to work for and obey the state.

I wondered how you would make this one look bad, since surely we're all agreed that universal education is a good thing! I think it's stretching things rather too far to use it as evidence of a conspiracy towards communism, especially since school attendance is compulsory in most countries, regardless of their politics.

Amerika is becoming socialist/communist today that Marx envisioned

Actually, the communist state that Marx envisioned would come about not through some government conspiracy, but through a workers' revolution.

The US is the first "undeveloping" nation the world has ever seen.

What about Ancient Egypt, China and the Islamic world of the late medieval period?

Evil has been done in the name of communism. But that doesn't mean that everything in Marx's philosophy is inherently evil.
 
Top Bottom