What's new

Welcome to Japan Reference (JREF) - the community for all Things Japanese.

Join Today! It is fast, simple, and FREE!

North Korean Threat

What should Japan do about North Korea's nuclear threat?

  • Should Japan depend on a mutually assured destruction policy based on its alliance with the U.S.?

    Votes: 4 23.5%
  • Should Japan produce its own bomb to ensure a mutually assured destruction policy?

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • Should Japan adopt a preemptive strike policy?

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • Should Japan just concentrate on diplomatic/economic maneuvers?

    Votes: 7 41.2%
  • Should Japan ignore it and hope everything works out?

    Votes: 4 23.5%

  • Total voters
    17

Dogen Z

aka YOSUQUE
Joined
23 Apr 2007
Messages
1,035
Reaction score
20
Everyone already knew that N. Korea has the bomb, so the latest test explosion was not a surprising event. In fact, the financial markets including the Nikkei largely shrugged it off, and the yen hardly budged.

Of couse, a nuclear arsenal at a hostile country is worrisome, but how worrisome is it?

-Can Japan count on a mutually assured destruction policy based on its alliance with the U.S.?
-Should Japan produce its own bomb to ensure a mutually assured destruction policy?
-Should Japan adopt a preemptive strike policy? (Wouldn't this be like Pearl Harbor?)
-Should Japan just concentrate on diplomatic/economic maneuvers? (If so, can they be effective?)
-Should Japan ignore it and hope everything works out?

Please post your opinion. This is a problem for Japan. Alternative suggestions are welcome.
 

Dogen Z

aka YOSUQUE
Joined
23 Apr 2007
Messages
1,035
Reaction score
20
(My opinion) As an American citizen, I hope that Japan can count on its long standing alliance with the U.S. to face down this threat from a small, backwards country. North Korea shouldn't be able to blackmail the world. Perhaps China & Russia could take a hands off policy, then South Korea could do something to accelerate a regime change (with assistance from its allies).

********************
UPI conducted a person-on-the-street interview about this problem in the U.S. and found many were informed about it and had an opinion on what to do.

 
Last edited:

hideway

still hiding
Joined
8 Dec 2006
Messages
450
Reaction score
20
Kim Jong-il isn't stupid. He is only using this nuclear pretext to solid his position on the world stage and on the 6 party talk. He wouldn't use nuclear weapons on anyone, specially an ally of the U.S., because it would mean his own destruction, which is very much the thing he fought against his whole life.

Said that, I think Japan should "just concentrate on diplomatic/economic maneuvers".
 

caster51

後輩
Joined
27 Feb 2005
Messages
1,915
Reaction score
35
as for USA, it is as same situation as North korea for Japan and China.

The nucleus of North Korea is not a threat for Japan.
The possibility that they use their nucleus is a threat.
North Korea disregards everything except USA..
Japan can do nothing but rely on the United States.
so is china

The Economic collapse of the United States is a threat for Japan and china.
The possibility of the collapse is the same as the threat of nuclear use for North Korea.
Japan , China and etc donate to the United States as long as the possibility exists.
 

EdZiomek

後輩
Joined
29 Jun 2005
Messages
281
Reaction score
14
Quick note, my first entry seems to have been deleted...

My paranoid side says the North Korean threat is so important, and so dangerous, that I think that North Korean propagandists are infiltrating the middle ground websites, for example, the Japanese/American discussion sites, posing as Americans, fomenting dangerous insulting comments against Japanese, aiming to divide the unity we historically have had.

They fear the American/Japan alliance, however tenuous it may have been, as the only obstacle to its expansion and success.

And they are reaching within JREF, very actively I believe, in the last 30 to 45 days, using various "solid bone fide American" names, and floating IP addresses.
 

Yan

先輩
Joined
8 Jun 2008
Messages
163
Reaction score
3
North Korea is not a threat for anyone in the world. Kim Jong-il is old so he just wants to be sure that he will be able to make of North Korea a big nuclear power before leaving this world. He won't use it to attack Japan or South Korea because he knows that North Korea is not the only country possessing the nuclear bomb. Using it would be the end of his regime.

When USA used their nuclear bomb in 1945, they knew that they were the only ones possessing it so there were no any menace of nuclear riposte.
 

Emoni

先輩
Joined
20 Sep 2003
Messages
1,767
Reaction score
65
North Korea is not a threat for anyone in the world. Kim Jong-il is old so he just wants to be sure that he will be able to make of North Korea a big nuclear power before leaving this world. He won't use it to attack Japan or South Korea because he knows that North Korea is not the only country possessing the nuclear bomb. Using it would be the end of his regime.

When USA used their nuclear bomb in 1945, they knew that they were the only ones possessing it so there were no any menace of nuclear riposte.

Go sit your butt in a classroom with some kids in Seoul and say that.
 

Dell_1957

先輩
Joined
27 Jan 2009
Messages
56
Reaction score
0
North Korea knows better than to use any kind of military action against Japan, the United States would be on their butts before they could figure out what happened. Kim Jong-il is just playing the world with threats, he knows the United States would react fast and hard at any military action against Japan...
 

EdZiomek

後輩
Joined
29 Jun 2005
Messages
281
Reaction score
14
Everyone may be right here

Caster and Yan and all...

Can all viewpoints be right here, yet all of us mis-understand?

In this insane world we live in, can North Korea instigate a war, hostilities, just to gain some survivability? Didn't Gaza get $900 million dollars worth of aid, after being bombed into submission?

Kim Jong Il is marginalized. They are low on the credibility scale. They are distrusted by China even, their traditional brothers, as being loose cannons. There is a succession situation, Father to Son, which is soon to materialize. And they are probably starving as a nation.

Everyone on my side says that it is saber rattling, it is dangerous rhetoric, but for what aim? To get beat?

Yes, maybe to get beat!
Ever meet a scrawny little punch-drunk with a chip on his shoulder, "Go ahead, throw your best punch?"

Being defeated might be "progress", their situation seems desperate. I don't have any other answers.

I am reminded of the 1966 American book a million years ago... "Been down so long, looks like up to me."
Been Down 1967
 

Emoni

先輩
Joined
20 Sep 2003
Messages
1,767
Reaction score
65
Thousands and thousands of civilians, even troops being "defeated" I don't consider viable or remotely moral diplomacy. That's for sure.
 

EdZiomek

後輩
Joined
29 Jun 2005
Messages
281
Reaction score
14
Morality?

Certainly, Emoni, you are 100% correct...but...

Morality in war threats? Any killing is moral? Are you also asking for sanity in politics? Are you also asking for logic, Mr. Spock? Cool, you are an optimist!

The Mouse that Roared (Wikipedia explanation, thank you)
The Mouse That Roared - Wikipedia
"The Mouse that Roared is a 1955 novel by Irish writer Leonard Wibberley that launched a series of satirical books about an imaginary country in Europe called the Duchy of Grand Fenwick. Wibberley goes beyond the merely comic, using the situation to make commentary about modern politics and world situations.

Released in February 1955 by Little, Brown, the novel first appeared under the title The Day New York Was Invaded as a Saturday Evening Post serial in six consecutive weeks, from Christmas Day, 1954 through 29 January 1955. ...

Plot summary
The tiny (3 miles by 5 miles) European Duchy of Grand Fenwick, nestled in the Alps between Switzerland and France, proudly retains a pre-industrial economy, dependent almost entirely on making Pinot Grand Fenwick wine.

When an American winery makes a knockoff version, "Pinot Grand Enwick," it quickly puts the tiny country on the verge of bankruptcy. The Prime Minister decides that their only course of action is to declare war on the United States. Expecting a quick and total defeat (since their standing army is tiny and equipped with bows and arrows), the country confidently expects to rebuild itself through the generous largesse that the United States bestows on all its vanquished enemies ...

Instead, the Duchy defeats the mighty superpower, purely by accident: landing in New York City, almost completely deserted aboveground because of a city-wide disaster drill, the Duchy's invading "army" wanders to a top secret government lab and unintentionally captures the Q-bomb, a prototype doomsday device that could destroy the world if triggered."

******

I think we are talking absurdity here, Emoni, which is usually the only truth anyone can ever find in war stuff. But I sincerely fear that tragedy will happen, all for Kim Jong Il to gain some form of relief for his very distressed country.
 

Emoni

先輩
Joined
20 Sep 2003
Messages
1,767
Reaction score
65
I'm aware of that movie, and I don't believe for a second that plot is in anyway North Korea's motives. I also don't believe for a second Kim Jong Il is doing this for the sake of his "country" either. Every bit of information I've seen about him and his government leads to me viewing it as dysfunctional insanity.

I too wonder if anything can ever truly end without North Korea being obliterated and South Korea indirectly via NK strikes, but I truly hope it can be avoided until some other method presents itself in the future... a future without Kim Jong Il or something. I have too many friends I know in Korea, and I'm deeply worried about their safety right now. So as weird as this sounds, it "hits too close to home." I've studied in Korea, I've made many friends there and while they all tell me, "Yeah, this happens a lot... don't worry," this is more severe than the previous "fits" NK has thrown.
 

EdZiomek

後輩
Joined
29 Jun 2005
Messages
281
Reaction score
14
I will defer to you.

Emoni, I have no answers, and it sounds like you are more confident of your answers than I am for mine. I am perplexed.

In my polyanna world, I would say,

"Kim... you show aggression with a long range missle, endangering our friends, the Japanese, the Koreans, even the VietNamese, even the Chinese, we are going to show you strength, and we will shoot it down using it for target practice.

You show us aggression, we will show you more aggression, step by step towards hostilities.

And on the other hand, for the olive branch side, we will build 100 new fish farms off your coast, financed by us, built by yourselves, to help feed your people. And we want to take steps to integrate your society into the rest of the world... because that is what you want, isn't it? You want respect, you want power, you want glory, you want your son to succeed you on the throne, you want to stay in power, fine, we can help.

Be nice, we will be nice. Be bad, we will hurt you. We are not comfortable with these acts of defiance.

And if this olive branch doesn't work, we will take out your nuclear facilities first using our missles, and your airfields second, strictly military targets. Remember, Kim, your country is full of rocky places, not too many places to launch your planes, and what few places you have, we will disable them, the world is on our side.

So, your choice."

Well, in my 25 years of driving a cab, Casa Blanca in Port Chester, they are the only White House who calls me... "Your tacos are ready!"
 

caster51

後輩
Joined
27 Feb 2005
Messages
1,915
Reaction score
35
at first.If North Korea used the nucleus for another country, it doesn't become a threat any longer.
there is no Profit for north korea
There is a true meaning for north korea in keeping the threat.
It is convenient for the United States to use this matter.
It is very profitable for the United States to keep this state.
 

Pachipro

JREF Resident Alien
Rest in Peace
Joined
19 Jan 2005
Messages
1,831
Reaction score
225
As I mentioned in another similar thread, N. Korea does NOTHING without the go-ahead of China and maybe even the US. It is all designed to keep us alarmed and not focused on what is actually happening in the world's economy. It is just a ruse and nothing will ever come of it. Sadly, it seems most of the world is taking this mouse seriously.

If N. Korea were truly a threat the US could easily take out its missile sites with one bomb as Israel did to Iraq's (or was it Iran's?) nuclear plant way back when. These things happen by design. Does anyone really believe that a backward, third-world nation, with no technology to speak of can hold the world hostage with it's threats and false firings of missles? If a nuclear attack occurs, you can be sure it was by design and not by the design of N. Korea.

I do not buy it and never will. As Henry Louis Mencken said:

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed and hence, clamorous to be led to safety, by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins - all of them imaginary.
 

EdZiomek

後輩
Joined
29 Jun 2005
Messages
281
Reaction score
14
Yes, yes, and yes, but maybe something else.

Good points.

Let me add one more idea, pure theory.

Kim Jong Il looks very, very sick, and this is in synch with published articles rumoring his bad health.

Guess: Kim Jong Il has terminal cancer. He has been given a date, maybe 6 months or less, and in the last 24 hours he has delegated, I believe, his youngest son, to be the inheritor of the throne.

What can unite his country under his son?

Extreme fear of foreign invasion/reprisal.

So he is accelerating the timetable to ensure his son's transition, while he is still alive.

Possible intermediate solution: Have America offer medical attention in the States.
 

EdZiomek

後輩
Joined
29 Jun 2005
Messages
281
Reaction score
14
Opening up North Korea

Open request to President Kim Jong-il

How can we open your country up to the rest of the world?

How can we open the borders in a peaceful way?

How can we integrate North Korea into your southern brothers and sisters?

Can you keep your country, as it is, yet open up to the world?

I think the whole world would welcome you into a more peaceful setting, with your son in charge of your own country, maintaining your politics as you wish, maintaining your control, just relaxing all the antagonisms.

No human being wants a confrontation, that I know of.

Everyone wants a peaceful coexistence.

Please feel free to answer. We want you as brothers and sisters with us, not warriors against us.

Ed Ziomek
Only speaking for myself, and probably 99.9999% of all peace loving people.
 

Hezam

Out of Service
Joined
24 Aug 2007
Messages
2,539
Reaction score
120
North Korea is a threat to Japan because the US.
NKorea wants to protect them self but using Nuclear is a very wrong choice.
US must stop threating N.Korea,i i can see the same issue like in Iraq and Kuwait ( N.Korea = Iraq ) ( S.Korea = Kuwait ).
 
Top Bottom