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none the better because

nekocat

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I learned from textbooks in Japan that the idiom "none the better because SV" is the same as "none the better for N" (N, S, V stand for noun, subject, and verb respectively) in meaning. Is it true?

My sister hasn't got better none the better for our caring efforts.
My sister hasn't got better none the better because we tried hard to cure her illness.​
 

bakaKanadajin

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My sister is none the better despite our caring efforts.
Although we tried hard to cure her illnesss, my sister is none the better for it.


These two examples are a bit more natural sounding. The reason for this is that 'none the better' is a kind of describing or adjectival modifiying clause used in this case to describe the person's sister. So it has to follow the noun (sister), and the 'hasn't gotten better' cannot be used with a noun clause and must be discarded. 'It' refers to whatever action was taken that has not affected the subject, in this case your caring efforts or attempts to cure the illness.

Some other examples:
We studied all night but we're none the better for it.
I washed those jeans 5 times but it appears that they're none the better for it.


So again, despite studying, their situation has not improved. The stain in the jeans was not removed even though they were washed 5 times. Both subjects (jeans and we) are none the better for it, with 'it' being their respective situations (studying and washing).

This 'none the better' phrase is somewhat outdated, I don't think its widely used in modern English, it's something that's found more in literature if anywhere. Some older generation people may use it but in modern English the phrase "I'm no better off" pops into mind, or else the speaker may just revert to describing the situation directly.

I washed these jeans 5 times but they're still dirty.
We studied all night but we still failed the test.
 

yukio_michael

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None the better, None the worse, aren't common in colloquial english, though you might familiarize yourself with the phrase none the less...

"We went to the beach & the weather was slightly poor, none the less, we had fun and frolicked in the surf"
 

Sarapva

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I've seen "nonetheless" as one word, meaning "even so" or "despite this", as in YM's example. "Nonetheless" does seem to be used more than "none the better" or "none the worse". BK's examples above are good ones for "none the better".
 

JimmySeal

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Yea, nonetheless is one word, and yes I think it's much more common than "none the better" and "none the worse." It's entirely unrelated to both.
 

nekocat

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よくわかったにゃー! おおきにありがとー!
 
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