New phrases

[solotron 2000]

hello,
i have here two new sentences/phrases for those intrepid souls to try and decipher. as for that last one i posted that no one could seem to make sense of, i tried to pry the answer from her to no avail. sorry. i think she was trying to say something like 'he's easy' or 'he's easy for me'...or something. kind of gave up on that one.
i've also sent these new ones to a friend in tokyo, but damn that girl is busy. so let's see who can do it first! OK!

1. Junbi wa mo jubun de, kakushin ni fureru toki ga kimashita...
(there's a ' - ' over the 'o' in mo)
2. Kako no shippai o wasurete, shinki makinaoshi shimasho.
(another ' - ' over the 'o' in shimasho)

she (my friend) doesn't speak japanese so i don't know where she's getiing these...pardon the 'incorrectness'.

-ssanks...

thank you very much. everyone.

solo Rm. 2004

 

[PaulTB]

Originally posted by solotron 2000
(there's a ' - ' over the 'o' in mo)

That should be shown by 'ou' or 'oo' (depending on your taste in romaji).

1. Junbi wa moo jubun de, kakushin ni fureru toki ga kimashita...

Er, do you really think you should be getting examples from her? ^^vvv
Maybe it's just me - but I think that phrase should have an age restriction posted on it.

2. Kako no shippai o wasurete, shinki makinaoshi shimashou.

she (my friend) doesn't speak japanese so i don't know where she's getting these...pardon the 'incorrectness'.

Well the second one is safe enough.

"過去の失敗を忘れて、新規まきなおししましょう。"
"Let's forget past mistakes and start over afresh."

 

[Elizabeth]

Something like "I was convinced enough time had been spent preparing so that when we touched....."

 

[PaulTB]

Originally posted by Elizabeth
Something like "I was convinced enough time had been spent preparing so that when we touched....."

Nicely phrased.

 

[Elizabeth]

I've actually always wondered myself how best to express these sorts of sentiments , although "kakushin ni" doesn't work very well without the main verb....

 

[Glenn]

According to the 大辞林, 核心に触れる is a set phrase, and it isn't dirty at all.

準備はもう十分で、核心に触れる時が来ました。
(The preparations are complete, and it's time to get to the heart of the matter.)

Of course, I suppose there is some chance that I am misunderstanding this, but I think that the above is what was intended.

 

[Elizabeth]

Oh, OK, thanks Glenn! That is a relief if so. The other interpretation is way too awkward syntactically. Although I'm still unsure of the toki ga kimashita part. When we get to the heart of the matter, it came ; it came time to get to the heart of the matter?

 

[Glenn]

I believe that 時 is functioning as the head noun of a relative clause here, and not the adverb meaning "when." So, "the time to get to the heart of the matter has come," and not "when we get to the heart of the matter came."

 

[PaulTB]

Just for once I'm glad to be shown to be wrong. ^^

 

[Elizabeth]

Originally posted by Glenn
I believe that 時 is functioning as the head noun of a relative clause here, and not the adverb meaning "when." So, "the time to get to the heart of the matter has come," and not "when we get to the heart of the matter came."

You're probably right, the phrase ga kimashita as "has come" is fine -- Fuyu ga kimashita etc. It's just the "toki" head that seems extremely unusual. I don't think I've ever encountered it before in fact. I wonder how something like this is normally said?

 

[Glenn]

Hmm, I guess Japanese can just be ambiguous like that sometimes. For instance, if you look at this sentence: "彼が言うことが自然だ," I think it can be interpreted two different ways.

1) What he says is natural.
2) That he says (it) is natural.

I suppose that they can come out to mean about the same thing, but the discrepancy is still there. Perhaps someone else could think of a better example. Any thoughts?

 

[Elizabeth]

Originally posted by Glenn
Hmm, I guess Japanese can just be ambiguous like that sometimes. For instance, if you look at this sentence: "彼が言うことが自然だ," I think it can be interpreted two different ways.

1) What he says is natural.
2) That he says (it) is natural.

I suppose that they can come out to mean about the same thing, but the discrepancy is still there. Perhaps someone else could think of a better example. Any thoughts?

Although the first one is much more commonly "彼の言う"perhaps to distinguish the two possibilities which could involve a different usage of natural as well -- more like "rightful" or "to be expected" (toozen, atarimae). I'll ask someone about the second (It's natural that he would say that).

 

[Glenn]

Originally posted by Elizabeth
Although the first one is much more commonly "彼の言う...

Heh, that was actually what I originally typed, so I had to go back and change it to make sense both ways. Well, like I said, perhaps it wasn't the best example...

I'll ask someone about the second (It's natural that he would say that).

I, too, shall inquire about this. I'll be looking forward to reading your response.

 

[tobata]

Originally posted by Glenn
Hmm, I guess Japanese can just be ambiguous like that sometimes.
<snip>
Perhaps someone else could think of a better example. Any thoughts?

How about this one ?

1-a 彼は私が好きです。

It can mean either he likes me or I like him, though the context would clear up the doubt.

(1-b 彼は私のことが好きです。--- only means he likes me.)

 

[Glenn]

Alright, I got a response. This is what I was after when I posted that first sentence, which I knew wasn't any good. Here are some much better examples about ambiguous relative clauses in Japanese. And of course, my own that I would remember after the fact: 知らない人 - 1)someone who doesn't know, or 2)someone whom one doesn't know.

 

[Elizabeth]

I think in this type sentence also futsuu is probably more common than shizen, although from what I understand shizen is used occasionally.

彼が言っていることは当然 (とうぜん) だ。