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My Rant for this forum

noyhauser

先輩
20 Feb 2003
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Okay,its taken me this long to build up enough steam to write this, but its finally happened. This is a evil evil rant, and most likely people's feelings will get hurt. And it is not aimed at all people here, there are a few people with some intelligence... but they are few and far between.

I watch Anime, I have since I was 4 Years old and I'm 22 now. I watch it casually and am not a major otaku in the best sense of the world. Often I get tapes, dvds ect from my family in Japan, often I just rent or borrow a copy of something from a friend or store. Anime does not consume my life, but I do watch a lot of it for fun and to listen to japanese.

That said I think I have a fair place to judge a bit on anime and the discussion that goes on here. Let me explain. First I am going to make some general observations.

#1 The level of true anime discussion on this board is appaling. I'm sorry but it has to be said. I could go on and post big writeups about general themes in Anime, stuff like film studies of anime (is Spike from Cowboy Bebop, Lupin the III incarnate??). But I won't, because there isn't anime discussion on here. All I see is :
Ohhh I like Inuyaha, oooh Onegai teacher is cool, Chii is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo cute.

Have some bleeding discussion on here please..


#3 Watching poorly dubbed versions of Japanese Anime is not watching anime. Inuyasha is a second rate anime series in Japan, no matter how you cut it. Its story line is marginal and its art ain't much better. Dubbing it is horrendous, and more or less stripps of any claim to be a good anime series.

Ruruoni Kenshin on the other hand is very good in Japan, up until the end of the Kyoto arc It is one of the only series I own in full. BUT .What they did to the series when they brought it over and called it Samurai X was a discrace...

#3 OOOH GUNDAM....
Gundam Wing and ZZ are honsetly two of the worst series in the franchise, but that aint saying much about the rest of it anyways because it aint much better. Actually to be honest I can't even watch wing without pulling out a bucket and puking. The first series 0079 Uc in 1979 was revolutionary, yes. But since then its gone down hilll BIG TIME. You want to see a amazing series, go watch Macross, which is pretty well some of the most thought out and beautiful anime ever done, and features far more character development and believabilty than Gundam ever will. Actually Macross pretty well is considered the epitome of smart science fiction, only evangaleon (with its dark religious message) comes close and that was done by the same guy.

#4 Spirited Away is not Miyazaki's best film. Even he acknowelges this. Go watch My Friend Totoro, Porco Rosso, City in the Sky LAputa or the greatest one, Nausicaa. Miyazaki actually did two volumes of manga for Nausicaa... he didn't do anything for Spirited away. Nausicaa was sooo deep and intresting, I forgot about Spirited Away 30 minutes after I stopped watching it.

Onegai Teacher and Chobits are okay animes but nothing spectacular. And honestly they are Shounen series, really intended for young guys to watch... not Shoujo for girls. Most of the characters are mindless cardboard figures that are made to look overtly sexual. Chobits COULD of been amazing, except that all the interesting stuff happened in the last 3 episodes and ruined the whole series. Thats not suprising coming from CLAMP, an ex Hentai company. Most of the time I'd rather put in a rerun episode of Doredmon and have that entertain me than some sublimely sexual series like chobits.


What I am getting at is that most anime that we see in North America is the worst kind, stuff that marketers think are the easiest for north americans to understand and watch. The reaaaaaally good stuff never will see the light of day. What I would like people to do is to watch more anime that is not from the brutal mainstream here in north america. I know it may be tough, and a lot of you are young, but trust me it is worth it. IT will often blow your mind away with things you never could imagine possible. When I first watched Nausicaa I was dumbfounded for a week straight.

My guess is though that this thread will get buried pretty quick by the same mindless crap that I am rallying against... ironic somewhat.
 
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Finnaly someone mentions macross, though it was pulled off air before i really got into it, but hey if you want good topics just post them. Ill post in yours if i know what your talking about(dont get much anime here).

BTW: What you opinion on Betterman?
 
I said I watch a lot, not all anime. Whats your general opinion? Should I go pick it up, or get it from Japan?

Macross is difficult to get in North america because of Harmony gold, which made Robotech. Robotech got the licence in the early 1980s for macross and butchered it with two other unrelated series (southern cross and genesis climber Mosepedia) to create the robotech saga. Since then they have been killing imports of new macross stuff because they say they have copyright over them, even though their original contract was for the first series. It is one of the best series out there (in my opinion) because it had a realistic portrail of war, where characters died, but also had a wicked love triange in each one. Minmay, Misa Hayase, and Hikaru Icjijo was wicked. Having ridiculously cool tranforming mecha always helps as well...

Im more of an oldschool anime lover... anything from the late 1970s, 1980s and early 1990s i love. Thats why macross, Bubblegum Crisis, patlabor,. wings of homeasie, Captain Harlock, Conan boy of the future (which may be my favorite pieces of work that Miyazaki ever did), and a whole bunch of other stuff are my favorite series. Oh yeah can't forget Doredamon.
 
I agree with u that the early anime are indeed better than nowadays with all those crappy animes which are some sort of a replica of old anime like dual copying eva etc.Patlabor and u're under arrest are my fav too,but eva is still my best!:)
 
raph Xephon... Like CMON RIPOFF. Watched two episodes in Japan, did not afterwards

The only thing about EVA that bothered me was that it seemed to be just Godzilla with a message.... granted thats a cool concept, but its not all that ground breaking.

Cowboybebop seemed too much like the classic Lupin III for my liking. Except the mechanical design, concept drawings and animation were amazing.
On that topic... is there anybody Cooler than Lupin? Has a samurai and a gangster as sidekicks, as well as always having a majorly hot girl as a damsel, antaganoist, partner or love interest. Always has the coolest heists in mind....
 
If you liked Macross, you will probably like Macross Zero. What I've seen of the serie made me enjoyed it very much and the soundtrack is quite good also. I haven't seen that much CGI since Blue Submarine nツコ6, which btw I think it was an underated mini-serie. A lot of people like to trash it, but I kind of enjoyed the post-apocalypse/The Island of Dr. Moreau atmosphere.

My first contacts with Japanese animation were done through TV, with Future Boy Conan, and my frist movie was Nausicaa, so its hard to judge Myiazaki, since I love all of his work. I recently saw Porco Ross and I enjoyed it a lot. It is unusual even for a Anime movie.

As for Lupin III versus Cowboy Bebop, I would say that Lupin had more gags into it, while Spike & Co. have this sort of "touch of death" sign hanging on the characters, since episode one. Lupin was amazing for its time, but Spike is a more evolved, seasoned serie that took good lessons from the past. I was a bit disapointed about the realtionship between Spike and Vicious wasn't more explored, but I think that in the end, it worked quite nice.

About Evangelion, what strucked me about it, was this angst, that seemed to follow every single character in the serie. I never saw it as Gojira-style serie, though the fight scenes were cool but the tension, the traumas displayed in every character give it a more humane feeling, and sometimes it touched too deep, whith some of its adult topics, like redemption, religion, existencialism and whatnot, so people may have strong reactions to it. I'liked the ending episode. Most of my friends just said "what just happened?".

:)
 
I'd agree with all you have said, LT. I've watched M-0. Its okay, but Macross plus still takes the cake. Plus just had unbelievable characters. I've said this before and I'll say it again Goa Guld Bowman is one of the most developed characters in Anime history for a movie. He first comes off as some evil antagonist, but in truth we see his story and his deep honor... and then he realizes the error of his ways... and well then there is the end.... (don't want to spoil it)

As for the CG debate... I'm am personally against it. Cell animation still has so many properties that make it far more attractive as a medium than CG. I don't mind meshing the two, but its gotta be well done. Yukikaze is a series that uses it decently well, but Macross zero has some really jarring scenes where the CG animation just doesnt work well.

I'll completely agree with what you said about Cowboy/lupin, except that I know that they have different moods underpinning the world. I would never claim it was a rip off (that would be just ignorant). I'm just saying that much of the design and character themes are derived from Lupin, more so than others. You could even make a social commentary that they are both the same type of anime just that they reflect the sign of the times. in the early 1980s the country was on an upward swing so the mood was bright, hence bright lupin. by 1994~1998 the mood in Japan is dark from recession, so the mood in CB is dark.
 
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Okay okay, i've been away for a long time from this forum due to work; but it's good to see some good ol' posts from Noyhauser.

1) I totally agree with you on the thoughtless anime posts. "xxx is sooooooooooo cute" or "i like to watch xxx, it sux but it's funny and the guy is charming" or "yes, ha ha ha..." as posts are not even discussions. Geez, put some thought into it!

2) Macross is also my all time fav anime if u check up on some of the old posts we have going on in here. I'm going to import the entire TV series (from Animego) soon; just need to find some spare time. The TV series is absolutely the best, it's a revolutionary sci-fi with very original storyline and romance. Macross II - Lovers again was acceptable although most of my friends hated it. Macross Plus has pretty cool airplanes in the VF21 or the YF19 but i didn't like the storyline. Macross 7 is totally crap as the music band theory in the story is fairly cheesy and isn't interesting enough as the other series. Macross Zero? I've watched up to the 3rd episode and so far so good; the CGs are done realistically and the story is also interesting (in times like this where almost all ideas have been exhausted).

3) The old Gundam series was done pretty well, especially the older ones such as 0079, MS08, Z Gundam. I agree with you again on this one; Gundam Wing, ZZ, V gundams are made just to earn some fast bucks from viewers. Can you imagine the scenes in Gundam Wing being reused over and over again? geez.

4) I disagree with you on the RahXephon series as I find that series stunningly beautiful. Many people compare it with Evangelion and says it is a ripoff. I'll say that it was that Eva was "meant to be". It doesn't has a shallow "kill-everything you see" anime like Gundam, and not as deep as Eva; but it is certainly one of the best anime I have watched of all times. (and yes, i've watched really really much anime)
- First off, the storyline. The idea of a "wall of time" (Tokyo Jupiter) and the fact that Kamina was an experimental human for the Mulian race was damn original.
- The animation is amazing, not like cheesy low production animation that we see on YTV. The shear details in the background are also done perfectly, I had to watch a third time to catch all the things going on in the background; the imagery is just plain beautiful. If you don'y pay attention to it; you may lose valuable parts of the story.
- The characters fit in together nicely in the end and everything makes sense (if you think about it). Kamina; the main character of the show actually evolves throughout the series; not like some shallow one-dimensional characters in newer anime who jsut blows everything apart. The other characters are memorable too, Quon and Reika are the most interesting of the bunch. Even minor characters such as the ships' crew seem to have their own unique personalities.
- And finally, the bgm and the music is also catchy and soothing to the mind which i really enjoyed as well.
I'll give it a 10/10 no questions asked on this series from Bones.
 
Macross 7 is totally crap as the music band theory in the story is fairly cheesy and isn't interesting enough as the other series.


whoah woah woah. Macross 7 actually is one of the deepest of the MAcross series, it just doesn't connect the dots for you as easy as other series. I'm going to post this post I did a few months ago on a Macross website, I think it whould explain things kinda nicely, but watch out, its kinda out of context... as it is a reply.

so here goes.

Its funny because Macross 7 went over pretty well in Japan. I think its because it was designed to focus on the characters rather than the Mecha( thats what Macross Plus was for) and this doesn't go over well with people who don't like much of wider Japanese anime. I'll qualify that because that is a generalization, but for the most part it does hold true. Macross 7 is a manga series however you cut it, which for the most part focuses on people, not mecha. Look at the longest running Manga strip, its are about police officers and their lives and not about big bad mechas blowing things up. It doesn't have great animation because you can't have good character development over 4 supurbly animated 30 minute OAVs, but you can over a 40 episode season with eh level animation. The reason why there is footage and music repeats because it was assumed that viewers don't remember exactly what happend a week ago, and would like to hear Tosugeki Love heart again because its a catchy track. It also cuts down on the cost as well because series animes are expensive to make and Kawamori blew the budget on Plus.(plus was the most expensive Japanese animation at the time)

I would hazard a guess that most people haven't watched one of the more popular japanese television series because most of them aren't brought to North America. They focus on character development, not wicked special effects or cool animation that would make it an easy sell in our markets. Its the same difference between television series in England and North America. What are the most popular british television series... Eastenders; its about lower middle class people living their lives in england. Would a show like that make it over in North America? hell no. The same thing happens with macross 7. You can say its terrible series but most japanese would disagree with you.

Also the plot isn't that bad. Alot of the show focuses on Pacifism versus militarism, which isn't a terribly big thing in the US but it is VERY relevant to Japanese culture. There are huge battles going on today on should Japan continue to maintain a pacifist policy or should it rearm the JSDF. The whole storyline is about that. Basara believes there is another way to settle the differences rather than fighting and his beliefs save macross 7 fleet. He wins over Gamlin, about episode 27, who figures out that fighting isn't the only way to solve things. He later wins over the Protodevilin through music. Thats what Kawamori was getting at. I personally like the music (I have a MD with only macross 7 tracks, and I still have "My Friends" on my playlist), but I was raised up with Japanese culture, so thats probably why. Macross is probably most people's first foray into Japanese pop, and they hate it. Great it isn't nirvana and it doesn't pretend to be. You don't like it, fine, but other people do.

I'll give that the first 15+ episodes were not that great but thats because most of you are watching it consecutively as it wasn't inteded to be watched. Man if I watched 20 episodes of a syndicated television show consecutively I'd hate it too. Most people watched an episode week after week. So the first 3 months of it was to get people accustomed to the show. You think that sucked? Well watch Ruruoni Kenshin which is considered one of the best japanese series that was produced right at the same time. First 20 episodes of the Tokyo Arc is fillers and repeat just like Macross. then Comes the Kyoto arc which closely follow the manga, and is reaaaaaaally good, just like how Macross 7 resolves itself.

I really think that most of the criticism laid at Macross 7 isn't fair, and I really wish people would just #$@# up about it. great you don't like it but saying its the most terrible Macross series isn't fair. I really disliked the person who put up the poll last week about your favorite series and left out Mac7. It had a lot of interesting parts to it and just because "the animation sucked" or "basara was an idiot" doesn't justify anything in my mind. It was never designed to be like Macross plus, and if it was made in 1981 people would probably say that it was better than the original macross. Just because SDF Macross was the first doesn't make it a sacred cow. For a Japanese series its fairly good, its not the greatest but still good.
 
as for Rah, I saw two episodes and then read a bit about it. It was then I walked away. It gets the comment "Evangeleon Lite" and from what I have read and seen, for good reason. Rah was done by the same studio that did cowboy bebop so its not suprising that they do have excellent animation. But excellent animation does not cover for being a rip off. The SUPER deep undertones of Evangeleon are not replicated in rah, and it is intended as a parody of sorts. I'm not saying its crap, not at all, just that its not that great either. Copying things isn't bad, Macross is the best example to Gundam, but it seems to me that Rah just ripped off too much and little plot differences do not justify a film being that exceptional. That said I probably will watch the whole series some time in the future so what the hell am I talking about
 
Macross Plus has one of the best soundtracks that I have ever heard, and I enjoyed the story too. The dynamics between the trio Isamu-Guld-Myung and the coming into conscience by Sharon Apple, makes a great story. I won't add anything more than what you said about M+.

About the CGI, though in M0 they are blatantly displayed, what about Ghost In The Shell: The Stand Alone Complex? There is a lot of CGI in it though it isn't very perceivable. Only when there are cars, tanks or more commonly, the Fuchikomas running around that it shows off. As for the serie in itself, well... it lives a lot of the manga and the previous movie, though it is set on a alternative universe. I didn't liked the movie much, because I was expecting something better than the cramming of 9 manga chapters in about one and a half hour of anime. I know that the adaptations always suffer, but what I enjoyed in the manga serie was the political intrigue and some controversial stuff, like some references to AI rights that I've seen beautifully portrayed in the sci-fi world (Do Robots dream of Electric sheep, some of the work by Asimov and so on), anti-terrorist war, government ghost-dubbing facilities (brainwashing todays youth into tomorrow productive citizens), to name a few. The sub-plot about the puppeteer is slow to evolve and it only culminates into the 3 last chapters. I guess that at some point, the argument writters focused only on the sub-plot just to save at least an extra hour of movie. For me, what ruined this movie was the first 2-3 minutes where we see a sexy half-naked cyborg doing a jump into the void. They were appealing to my libido and if I wanted that, I would prefer watching Urotsukidoji. At least I wouldn't be disapointed.

:)

Right now, the only series I am looking for to see, is the rest of the Macross Zero, and... Slayers. I've only seen a Slayers movie and what I saw, I liked it.

As for Macross 7, I've never seen it.
 
I didnt know that clamp was an X hentai company. That would explain alot. You know what I dont like is when people like an anime just because it looks good. An anime can have the best CG but the content is crap. I'm not a big fan of CG myself unless its for background purposes. Cell animation has always been good for me it still looks beautiful and amazing.
 
They focus on character development, not wicked special effects or cool animation that would make it an easy sell in our markets. Its the same difference between television series in England and North America. What are the most popular british television series... Eastenders...

Mmm... maybe I should give Macross 7 another shot as I only went through the first 10 episodes and read about it on animation forums which didn't have good reviews for it. As I was saying in my last post, character development is sure important, and most newer anime only has one-dimensional characters such as Candidate of goddess and XTv as very obvious examples. I know this doesn't relate to the topic, but Babylon 5 is one of the best sci-fi there is in television series....

Macross Plus has one of the best soundtracks that I have ever heard, and I enjoyed the story too. The dynamics between the trio Isamu-Guld-Myung and the coming into conscience by Sharon Apple, makes a great story.

I can't agree more with you that Macross Plus has one of the best soundtracks, especially with the 'Voices' tune. I don't know, maybe I just didn't like the story since there were incidences of rape and buddies-turned-nemesis over small incidences...

As for GITS, i only watched 2-3 episodes on it and the rest are still sitting on my shelf... so i can't really say anything about it yet....

Right now i'm watching Wolf's Rain, Gundam Seed which seems to be an "ok" series so far; and of course, I'm highly anticipating the next release of Macross Zero...

:)
 
But Guld didn't rape her... honest to god. HE kinda got enraged, ripped Myung's dress then saw himself in the mirror. Guld in the end was the most honorable man in the whole series, and he proved it by sacrificing himself for his friends (in one of the greatest anime scenes ever.). ... here goes the synopsis of my favorite anime scene.....

Guld transforms to battroid and starts blocking shots with the pinpoint barrier... but the ghost knocks him out by blowing all his limbs offf...as the YF-21 falls, you rotate to gulds face and he gives a little smirk.... you know right then and there that guld is about to trash ghost . What the ghost doesn;t know is that the YF-21 is not an ordinary Valkrie, and he has some tricks up his sleeve... Guld then blows off the destroyed limbs and cuts the limiter. From then on the ghost and guld push them selves to the limit and guld proves that man is still greater than machine. He performs the Ultimate sacrifce for his friends, absolutely torturing himself for them. The last thing you see of guld is another little smirk...

(this was a drunken write up by me last night... pleasue excuse the unabashed love of Macross Plus)


Macross has about the best music in anime as well. Information High from Macross plus, Do you remember love from MAcross Do you remember love, and my favorite,"My friends" from macross 7. (download it )By far the best music of any anime series.

The first 10 episodes of macross 7 is just fillers... you gotta go to like the 26+ episodes and then you will be hooked.
 
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This might not be the place for it, but does anyone know anything about the sequel to Ghost in the Shell?

I keep seeing posters for a movie called "Innocence" and a friend tells me this is the next Ghost in the Shell movie.

Is this BS?
 
It's true. Check it at Production I.G.. It's the same guys behind the TV serie and the first movie, Jin-Roh, Patlabor, and weirdly enough, the anime scenes of Kill Bill vol. I.
 
Regardless of what's been said, I still love Inuyasha and it is one of my favorites. It isn't because it is so commercialized and over shown on Adult Swim. It's pretty original, unless maybe there is another anime I haven't seen that's similar. The dubbed is crap, they've taken the characters and... errrg, the dialogue! I watched subtittled versions of the first two movies and I learned a bunch of stuff that they had taken out with the dubbed.

I agree with you about watching dubbed. It isn't truely watching anime if you watch the dubbed, but myself and many others don't have the money to go by subtitled versions of everything, which bites arse because I don't get a chance to watch all the animes that they haven't commercialized here in America.

I also hate the mindless banter of more than several of my fellow members."I loooooooooove Chi she is soooooo cute! :3 <3!" Yes, I admit, I've probably done that before, but not recently. Yes, Chi is cute, but you don't watch the show just because of Chi or at least I hope you don't. You watch anime because the plot has something different then most and it speaks to you. Yeah, plots can speak to you.

If you want to see real exceptional anime that gets you thinking there is a channel on Dish Network Satelite called TechTV. It shows science-ficition animes late at nights on there Anime Unleashed show thing. Serial Experiment Lain, Banner of the Stars, Betterman and Duel just to name a few. Go watch them... they're worth it...
 
ITs not that hard though. Most places like blockbuster rent decent movies and can order in ones they don't have. Fansubbers are another option, you can download fansubbed movies off the net. I know I know there are legality issues but fansubbers don't work on films that have north american distribution rights, and I have never heard of a fansubber being prosecuted for their activities. Without them these films would never be seen in North America, so I think that they are a good thing.
 
okay i didnt rea dall the post just the first one, im new here so..yea hi. I agree on a lot of stuff just said. Not all but alot. The lack of real discussion is disappointing on alot of forums ive seen, thats why im here.

First if i spell stuff wrong dont tackle it, im deslixic and it ticks me off, lol, there I said it.

Seocnd, I write in a lot of genres, anime doesnt consume my life either but i love all literature and so i like to read manga and watch anime as literature and not smut. However just like every other format, for everyone one good one theres 12 bad.

Third, iv'e seen all the films you just mentioned. Spirited Away is my favorite. Your wrong. lol.

And finnaly, opinions can very from person to person, i wouldn't count someone out just because they like Gundam (personally, i loved GGundam, the other seires did nothing for me).
 
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