What's new

My fiancé's best friend tried to sleep with me! Long post

Tokis-Phoenix

先輩
23 Sep 2005
1,275
73
58
Hi there everyone…

I'm having a major big dilemma right now, and I really do not know what the best course of action to take would be. So I will tell you the whole story and see if any of you guys can give me any input on what to do, since I really do not know what to do myself and I will appreciate any opinions and reasons you guys can give me.
Because the detail of this whole story is so long, long story short my fiance's best friend tried to persuade me to have sex with him, I didn't have sex with him or do anything else with him, I stayed 100% faithful to my fiance and my fiance knows this for a fact (because he happened to hear the conservation and stuff as it happened) and I told the whole story of what happened to my fiance.
However now I do not know whether to tell the girlfriend (who is a friend of mine) of my fiance's ex-best friend of what happened between us, she also has a child with this guy. My fiance is also having the same dilemma as well. Detail of what exactly happened below;

EDIT: The writing in normal size is the main stuff, the writing in small size is the detail of the story, which is optional if you want to read it or not.


(BTW, this is going to be a pretty long , in-depth and detailed post).… …

On Saturday night me and my fiancé went to a friends birthday party , this friend, who we shall call Jeff (not his real name) was a friend of mine but he was more of a close friend of my fiance, he was one of my fiance's best mates and they were very close friends, regularly meeting up to go out on their motor bikes etc. Even though my fiance see's Jeff a lot, i hadn't really seen Jeff in over a year however I was looking forward to going to his birthday party and catching up with him. It was Jeff's 27th birthday party.

The B-day party basically consisted of going down to Jeff's one and only local pub, it was a bit of an old people/family pub but there were many other people there for Jeff's party and we had a pretty good time overall, I met quite a few new people and it was quite pleasant even though Jeff had a lot of drinks with his brother and mates and was a bit rowdy etc.

Because me and my fiance were both intending on drinking alcohol that night, we arranged to stay the night at Jeff and his girlfriends house so we didn't have to drive back home with alcohol in us etc. Jeff and his girlfriend have a little girl of around 2 or 3years old together, Jeff arranged for his and his girlfriends parents to baby sit their little girl while we all had a good night out together.

After the pub had started to close up after many hours of us partying for the night and everyone else in the party crowd had left for him, me and my fiance and Jeff and his girlfriend all decided to head back to their place for the night.
Jeff was pretty drunk, when we all got back to his place and his parents left, we all stayed up for a little bit. Jeff does a lot of working out with weights and stuff, he insisted on me and my fiance trying out his weights (of course I was pretty rubbish since my arms are made out of squish not muscle lol). Jeff's girlfriend soon decided to call it a night, I had been pretty tired while at the pub in the last hour or so but I started to wake up again so I decided to stay up for a bit.
Not long after Jeff's girlfriend had hit the hay, my fiance decided to go to sleep on the sofa in the sitting/main room while me and Jeff stayed up together chatting away together.


And this is where it all started…


At first, me and Jeff just talked about general stuff, but after a little while he really started to pour out his heart to me about all kinds of serious personal stuff, which he said he had never talked to anyone else to about.

(continued in a mo)

(continued)

At first it was all pretty innocent but serious stuff- Jeff is a bin man and his girlfriend is a cleaner, I've known them for years and I have always known that they have been a pretty skint couple, never been able to bring in much money to support themselves and their child, but always trying to provide their best for their child together and never relying on government hand outs or anything like that. Jeff told me that despite his best efforts to bring in as much money as possible, he was spending over £200's more a month than what he was actually bring in and so was being unhappily resigned to a life of debt. I don't know if his girlfriend knows of his debts or not.
Jeff is a very proud man, its one of the reasons why currently he is refusing cash hand outs (which he is entitled to) from the government. He admitted to doing pretty poorly at school, his GCSE grades were all D's and E's or worse- he admitted that he really didn't try hard at school, preferring instead to concentrate on pulling girls and skiving off school and stuff etc. Due to not trying at school, he's also computer illiterate and he doesn't have the time to do stay at home educational courses, so basically due to not giving a damn about his education at school he's ended up unintentionally resigning himself to poorly or basically paid work.
Jeff told me that he got very depressed sometimes, even suicidal depressed at times, he showed me scars on his arms from his suicidal moments in the past- this did shock me, I never thought him to be the depressed type of guy.

Jeff and his girlfriend started going out together in their early teenage years, and even though they are both still pretty young , they've already been a whopping 13years together.

I know that there's no love between Jeff and his girlfriend though- he's admitted to this many a time to both me and my fiance in the past, and yet again, he told me this- he said that there hasn't been any love between him and his girlfriend for the last 5years of their 13 year relationship together. But he said that the main reason why they are together is because of their little girl that they have together.
Now I know that Jeff doesn't love his girlfriend, and she doesn't love him back, but I do know for sure that he loves his little girl 100% and that he will do anything for her.

He said some stuff though that I really did sympathize for him for- I knew/had assumed pretty early on that the main and only reason why Jeff and his girlfriend are still together is for the sake of their daughter. Jeff said he didn't want to be with his girlfriend, however he said that he knew that if he did leave his girlfriend, which we shall call Katy (not her real name), that she would most likely move on with her life and meet a new guy and go out with him instead. Jeff said his biggest fear in all of this would that his little girl would grow up to call this new guy her Daddy, and hearing this would destroy Jeff's heart (which I find quite understandable).
So Jeff has basically resigned himself to being in an unhappy relationship with his girlfriend Kate forever for the sake of his daughter. Apart from the father fear thing, I think he also just wants to be with Kate so their daughter can grow up with having both her original dad and mum in the house together.

I did really sympathize for Jeff with this but I couldn't give him any answers to his situation. But even though Kate doesn't love Jeff, I have seen her say numerous negative things towards Jeff that IMHO I would personally never say to anyone no matter how little I loved them- I still think you should have a basic amount of respect towards someone for the simple fact that they're still a human being, no matter how little you love them. I'm not saying that Jeff doesn't say or do unreasonable things towards Kate, but I have seen the behavior more from Kate than Jeff.
I mentioned all of this to Jeff and he really agreed with me- even though he is a proud macho guy, he admitted that some of Kate's comments towards him did hurt his feelings/damage his self-confidence/esteem. He had mentioned being bullied at work as well earlier on in the conversation too- he's a good looking guy however he isn't very tall (I would say he's maybe about 5ft 4-5" tall) and he is very insecure about his height, which the guys take the piss about him about, plus they also tease him for his surname (which is a girls name to say the least).
Jeff also mentioned that apart from the complete lack of love in his relationship with Kate, they also argue with each other every single day and their sex life is not good together, with him last having sex with her over 4months ago.

I talked about a lot of stuff with Jeff, I won't bore you with it all here though as I should really be getting to the stuff that turns this hole situation upside down .

…Jeff told me that he had never been able to talk to anyone about these things before, he said I was special and that he felt a real connection with me, he said he felt I was on the same wave length as him and that he could really open up to me. I took these compliments quietly in my stride, I felt good that he was able to talk to me about this sort of stuff, but over the hours of chatting I started to feel uncomfortable with him.
Despite his drunk state earlier on in the night (although this was now technically the early hours of the next day), he had certainly sobered up a great deal and he had been very serious while talking to me about all of this stuff. I shall make this clear right now that there was no doubt in my mind that what he started saying and doing next was not under the influence of alcohol, in fact I had never seen Jeff more serious and sober before in my life.

He told me that I was beautiful- now I wasn't taken aback by this when he said this before he has told me and my fiance that I am good looking and that my fiance is a lucky man etc, however this time when Jeff said this to me there was not the same playful feeling or tone in his words, he sounded like he was coming more from the heart.

He asked me how attractive I found him- now seriously, he is a good looking guy, but it was an awkward question to answer; if I told him that I didn't think he was good looking, it could crush his self esteem- throughout the night already he had been grudgingly talking to me about how he was very insecure about his image (especially his height) and how he got picked on at work (which was no small matter for him to come out about, and certainly surprised me) etc- so if I lied and told him he wasn't attractive when he was, I could end up really emotionally damaging him (because for him this was a really serious question and he said my opinion mattered to him the most), which I obviously didn't want to end up doing. If I told him he was attractive though, I could have ended up giving him the wrong impression- however after quickly weighing up the issues of either option, I decided to be honest and tell him I thought he was pretty physically attractive and that I'd give him 8/10 for looks, because at that moment in time although I knew he found me attractive, I didn't think he would be as immoral to come onto me while my fiance, his best mate, was sleeping on the sofa right next to him while we sat on the floor chatting together.

He started going onto to me though more and more about how attractive he found me though. I was quite uncomfortable with this situation and I think my posture, silence and behavior made this quite clear to him.
I tried to steer the conversation back to the original topics, since I had sincerely sympathized for him on these topics and felt it was more positive to be talking about them instead of getting onto this sort of dodgey stuff. Every time I did this though he would only talk about them for a little bit before moving the conversation back onto the subject of his feelings for me.
Each time he did this, he became more and more confident and forceful to continue the conversation along these tracks, even though I was obviously very uncomfortable and not very happy about talking to him about this kind of stuff.

But, I thought to myself, this isn't the first time I've had to deal with a lovesick guy who's lovesick over me- I have a few guy friends that I know who fancy me, but I also know for sure that they would never ever attempt to make a move on me, because they respect my fiance too much and they also respect me too etc. But I hadn't had to deal with a situation quite like this, I didn't really know how to react or act considering all that had been said, a lot of other things were still running through my mind.

Jeff said to me that he was in love with me- he told me that he had wanted me for years, he said he loved everything about me. He said he didn't just love my boobs and my bum and my curves etc, he really did love everything about me, from my lips to my hair to the clothes I wore etc. I said nothing.
He told me that if my fiance hadn't have found me first, he would take me up in an instant. He then even went so far to say that If I left my fiance, he would dump Kate in an instant to be with me.

I basically told him, and made it quite clear, that even though I found him attractive (heck, I find a lot of girls and guys attractive) I wasn't attracted to who he was and that its basically "not going to happen between us". I made it clear to him that I was not happy nor uncomfortable talking to him about this sort of stuff and that I wasn't happy hearing it either. I told him that while I really sympathized for him about some of the other stuff he had talked about earlier on, but I said I didn't really know him that well and I certainly didn't love him.
Just to make 100% sure I was getting the right message across, I told him that I was absolutely faithful and dedicated to my fiance and that I would never cheat on him in any situation under any circumstances etc.

Jeff sorta backed off in his approach towards me after I said this to him though- "good" I thought, "we're getting back onto more safe and reasonable topic conversation'.
Jeff started to apologize lots to me about what he had said, admitting to putting me in a difficult situation. But he said he really couldn't help it- he said his lust/love for me was getting out of control and had been so for a long time and that it was driving him crazy.
He said he really liked me as a friend, he said he wanted us to be friends, but he said it was becoming more and more difficult for him to try and just resign himself to the position of being just a friend towards me. He said that he thought it might be best that he doesn't see me any more under any circumstance. He said he knew his feelings were wrong, but he couldn't stop himself from having them about me.

Now when he said this, I started to feel sorry for him again- I thought to myself, "this is just a lovesick guy who is finding difficulty fighting his immoral desires, he can't help having these feelings, he wants to stop himself from having these feelings about me, but he doesn't know what to do etc".
So I said to him, "Look, I really like you as a friend too, and some of the stuff you have said to me on other subjects tonight has really made me sympathize for you, but I don't want to see you anymore if it is going to make you suffer around me because of the feelings you feel for me against your will".

He didn't really seem to take this in though, rather after a while of some talk, he just sat there sighing on the edge of the inflatable bed. He turned around and grabbed my hand, he started talking about stuff like "Why are you with him [my fiance]? What do you see in him?? What can I do to make you want to be with me???", he said, "You know the reason why I work out? Its really stupid. I work out because I think to myself that if I have a great enough body you'll turn around and notice me and make you want to be with me. Its really stupid! Why do I have to feel this way about you??!".
He then said "You know I love you so much, I'm obsessed about you. I'm more of a man that your guy will ever be- if you go with me, I will protect you". He said "there was this one time when we were all in the pub and you were wearing your sexy little kilt skirt and white top and you were playing Pool with your man and I saw this guy just standing a short distance away from you just staring and your ***. I wanted to pummel/punch this guy so much I was so jealous that he was looking at your ***, and I'm not even with you! Why do you make me feel this way??!"
I told him that he had to deal with his anger issues but that I couldn't help the way he felt about me, I told him that I was dedicated to my man, and again I suggested to Jeff that it might be best that we just don't see each other anymore (which to be honest is crazy anyway, this was the first time I had seen him in like a year and all this stuff he was coming out to me about was completely out of the blue and completely unexpected for me).

He said "You know if you left your man I would look after you so well, I would wait on your 24/7, I would do everything for you, I would be your slave and you would be my queen, you wouldn't have to lift a finger, I would be at your beck and call". He said "I have never felt this way about any woman, I have never loved a woman before like I have with you, I feel we connect, we could be good for each other- I would give up everything to be with you".

(continued in a mo)

(continued)
Anyhoo, this kind of stuff went on for a bit. After a while we sat there silently for a few moments, and he said "do you think anything could happen between us"- not looking at him I immediately replied "No". He brought up some imaginary situations and stuff with the same sort of question (more about sex though), each time with me telling the truth and basically saying no. I didn't want to encourage him, I didn't want to hurt his feelings, I didn't want the situation to get anymore awkward or bad for me- I don't know why, but I kept on trying to concentrate/think about what we had been talking about earlier with the non-sexual/love/fantasy etc stuff. I didn't want to be in this situation, but it was difficult to find an exit.

He just sat there. He looked like a peacock that had lost all of its feathers/beauty- he looked totally disheartened. I didn't really know what to do. After a bit of silence, he said "I know you and I aren't ever going to be together, but I have one request from you, but I know its wrong…"
I said "is it a sexual request in any way" and he said "No, no…Well, not really. I mean, No."
I said "Well what is it then, is it sexual or not? What do you want?". I really had no idea what he wanted- from the way he looked, sounded and acted, it almost looked like he was going to start sobbing, I almost thought he was gonna ask for a hug- him and Kate did not have a physically loving/comforting relationship together, no hugging or anything like that, and it wouldn't have been the first time someone had asked me for a hug in an emotionally twisted and distressing time. But with the difficulty of him saying what he wanted, I suspected he wanted more, but I really didn't know what he was going to request and I wanted to know so I asked again what exactly he want. I said to him that I may or may not do his request depending on what exactly it is, and I will try not to judge him for it.
He drew himself closer to me and he said "Can I have a kiss", I said "No", he asked again and I said no, he said it was just a kiss he wanted, "its not like I'm asking you for sex" he said, I said no, he said "please I just want just one kiss, no one will ever have to know about it-" I said "NO". I told him that there was no way I would ever do anything with him and that it wasn't fair that he was putting me in this situation, I told him again and again that I was dedicated to my fiance etc. Jeff was too close to me, I felt my personal space zone being invaded. I moved back, he was holding my hand. I said I needed to get up and stretch, I didn't, but I did so that when I sat down again I could sit further away from him.
God this was bad/awkward, I thought to myself.

But when I was comfortable to talk, all of a sudden he said "you know, I respect your dedication to your man. No woman has ever turned me down before you know, I respect that about you". I said "No woman has turned you down before?" and he said "Yeah, no woman has ever turned me down before. I really respect that about you, (but it only makes me want you more)".
All of a sudden I just felt like this had been some cruel test. I though to myself, why is he happy that I'm so faithful to my fiance when he obviously wants to get into bed with me??
But if only to contradict himself, he then went on about how much more sensual a kiss was for him, that it turned him on more than anything else, that a kiss can be even more intimate than sex. I agreed with him, saying how that a man might pay for sex with a hooker but he wouldn't kiss her. But as I said this I thought "so much for him wanting 'just a kiss', which apparently meant nothing, even thought he's now going on about how much more intimate a kiss is for him than sex etc".

I didn't want to be in this situation. Jeff started apologizing to me about asking me for the kiss and stuff, he tried to make me swear to him that I wouldn't tell my fiance about what happened. Although I don't like to lie, I told him that I wouldn't tell my fiance about what happened, even though in my mind I had already decided that I would tell him as soon as it was safe to do so. But all the time, I was thinking to myself "I can't believe this is going on!"
Throughout this entire situation I felt emotionally blackmailed with his sob/sympathy stories (which I believe were true).

Anyways…

Long story short, he didn't mention anything more about his passions over me and didn't make anymore requests and the conversation turned towards a more uneasy but acceptable subjects. I was exhausted and very stressed, I had been awake since 9am the day before and it was now about 5:30am in the morning. After a while Jeff said he was going to go for a smoke, I agreed and started to roll myself a cigarette, and at this moment my fiance woke up and after seeing me making a rolly he said he was going to have one as well.

I didn't know if my fiance had over-heard my Jeff's conversation with me, throughout the entire thing I had honestly thought he was asleep, Jeff certainly thought he had been asleep otherwise he wouldn't have dared talking to me about some of the stuff he had talked to me about. I did want to talk to my fiance about what had happened, but I wasn't going to talk to him about it while Jeff was there and his daughter and girlfriend were in the house, so I decided to act like nothing had happened for now.
After a short bit of small talk, Jeff went to bed, and since I was very knackered myself I decided to hit the hay as well and went to sleep with my fiance on the inflatable bed on the floor.

When I woke up 2 ½ hours later my fiance, Jeff, Kate and their daughter were already up and about. I chatted away to Kate about general stuff for a little bit, but then all of a sudden my fiance asked to have a word with Jeff outside- Jeff didn't want to, by my fiance insisted, and since Jeff didn't want to look suspicious in front of Kate he grudgingly obliged. I immediately knew that my fiance must have heard at least some of what had been said last night.
About 5mins later my fiance and Jeff came back indoors both very silent. I decided to go and get ready to leave. After washing my face and brushing my teeth, getting into some new clothes and re-applying my makeup, my fiance wanted to leave ASAP. I know a lot was wrong, I went with my fiance, I didn't know what had been said between my fiance and Jeff.

Me and my fiance got in our car, and after about a minute or two of driving, my fiance asked me what happened that night. I honestly didn't know what my fiance had heard, but from his tone I knew he had obviously heard some of it.
I told him everything.
After a while, he told me that he was very happy that I had told him the whole story, because he then said that he had heard everything, right from the start to the end, he said he had actually been asleep however he had been in a very light sleep so that is why he heard everything. He thanked me for staying faithful to him.
He said that the only reason why he didn't get up and beat the sh*t out of Jeff was because a. I resisted Jeff's attentions, b. because nothing actually happened between us, and c. because he wanted to see how events turned out between us. He said he was glad that he let events play out because I stayed faithful to him- He told me that before, he trusted me 100%, but now he trusted me 110%. He was quite understandably absolutely fuming at Jeff though, the only reason why he didn't beat Jeff up was because he didn't want to wake up Jeff's girlfriend or daughter and have them see Jeff covered in blood from getting the cr*p beaten out of him.

We talked about what had happened together throughout the entire car journey back and long after we had got back home. We hugged and kissed a lot. I wanted to be by my fiance's side more than anything in the world, we stayed right by each others side for the whole day.

After many hours of talking though, my fiance asked me to phone Jeff about what happened, I wanted to talk to Jeff about what happened too so I did.
When I phoned Jeff though he didn't want to speak to me, he kept asking to speak to me fiance, however my fiance quite understandably did not want to speak to Jeff at all, I could visibly see my fiance's anger over Jeff, so I kept on trying to speak to Jeff about what had happened.
 
Last edited:
(continued)
Jeff basically said to me that he had absolutely no feelings for me whatsoever and doesn't want to have sex with me, he told me that he loves Kate and his daughter and would never do anything to harm them, he said that he didn't even remember what he said to me that night and that either way it was the drink that was talking and not him, he said what happened was "nothing" and that it didn't matter because nothing actually happened etc.

Now this really pisses me off! For a start;

a. I do believe that Jeff fancies me and does want to have sex with me- he spent hours upon hours trying to persuade me to kiss his him, telling me of his deep passionate feelings for me, and I know for 100% certain that if I had not been as faithful to me fiance as I had been that night, Jeff would have certainly had sex with me if I had been willing. Apparently when my fiance went for the talk with Jeff while we were still at his house, he asked Jeff that if I hadn't been so faithful to him, would he have had sex with me, and Jeff replied "probably".

b. I know for a fact that Jeff loves his daughter, but I also know for a fact that he does not love Kate whatsoever. I lost count of the amount of times that night he said things like "if you left your man I would dump Kate in an instant to be with you" or "there hasn't been any love between me and Kate for the last 5 years of our relationship" etc, not only that, but Jeff has actually told both me and my man in the past that he doesn't love Kate- he has also admitted to cheating on her numerous times, having at least 3 affairs with other women on her (this was actually also one of the things Jeff discussed with me that night).

c. Its pretty ironic of Jeff saying he wouldn't do anything to harm Kate or his daughter, because throughout the whole night he had made advances towards me and said things that could harm either of them if they found out.

d. I really do not believe that it was the drink that was talking and not him- for a start, when he was saying the stuff he said, I have never seen him more serious or sober in my whole life. There was absolutely nothing that appeared drunk about him or his behavior etc- both me and my fiance agree that Jeff understood full well what he was doing and saying that night. Its ridiculous- that morning when he got up not long before I did, he actually commented on how quickly he had sobered up that night! It's a lame excuse for him to blame alcohol for what happened.

e. It pissed me off when he said that what happened was nothing and it didn't matter- IMHO, what had happened was bloody serious and was shockingly bad and important! Yes, its true, nothing actually happened between us, but I know for a fact that if I hadn't been so faithful to my fiance, Jeff would have certainly made bad things happen. It was his intentions that were the worst and most important thing- he tried to cheat on his best mates with his fiance in the same room that his best mate was sleeping in, in the same house that his 2/3year old daughter and long term girlfriend were sleeping on. IMHO its like something straight out of a Jeremy Kyle or Eastenders episode its so bad!



Anways. So know I have some massive dilemma's on my hand I really do not know what to do.

Kate is going to start getting suspicious when my fiance, who has been best mates with Jeff for years, all of a sudden stops speaking with Jeff or seeing him, especially since that talk they had together at her house which my fiance made Jeff go outside with him to talk about. Kate's going to get suspicious, ne?
BUT, if I tell Kate what happened, which I do want to do, she could quite understandably split up with Jeff, and their daughter would suffer for this. But even if Kate stays with Jeff, they already argue everyday, sometimes in front of their child, which the child obviously finds distressing and is learning bad behavior from her parents arguments- if Kate stayed with Jeff after finding out about what happened it is likely that their arguments with each other will only become worse and will become vicious and spiteful- it is not a good environment for the child to grow up in. So regardless of whether Kate stays with Jeff or not after finding out about what happened, things could turn out very badly for the child. And If I don't tell Kate, Jeff is likely to carry on cheating or trying to cheat on Kate, which she doesn't deserve.

I do think Kate should know about what Jeff tried to do towards me, but I don't know if telling her what happened is going to be the best thing for the kid. I am 97% sure that Jeff certainly won't tell her the truth of what happened, Kate has no idea about Jeff cheating on her in the past, and the thought of Jeff lying to her about what happened fills me with unbelievable anger.
Kate is not a close friend of mine but at the end of the day she is still a friend- on the other hand though I hate Jeff and have lost complete and utter respect for him. If I don't tell Kate about what happened it will make it appear like I am covering Jeff's *** for him, and to be honest I think that Jeff will probably cheat more on Kate in the future, sooner or later, IMHO its an inevitability. However Kate obviously doesn't deserve this in life, she's already sacrificed so much for Jeff in their loveless relationship, however unlike Jeff at least she has stayed faithful to him throughout their relationship together.

Another thing I found out about after the incident, is that after I told my fiance all that had happened, he revealed to me that apparently Jeff had slept with one of his mates girlfriends in the past. Hearing this just makes me feel even more angry- was everything he said to me that night just a lie and part of his plan to get me to have sex with him? Did he tell this other mates girlfriend the same things he told me in his attempt to get me to sleep with him? Before I had a small ounce of sympathy for Jeff, now I have absolutely none. He is a bastard. A bastard that cheats on the mother of his child, has affairs, sleeps with his friends girlfriends and tries to sleep with his best mates fiancé.

What do I do? Do I tell Kate about what happened or not? Because Jeff certainly won't that's for sure, and if he does tell Kate its either going to be lies about what happened or only half-truths etc. But what if Jeff and Kate split because I tell Kate about what happened? Their daughter could seriously suffer for it. My father died when I was very young so I know what it is like to grow up without a father- although if Jeff and Kate split up, Jeff could still arrange through the courts to have weekly visits to see his daughter, its just not going to be the same for her, growing up without her father in the house and only seeing him a few times a week etc. And if things were sorted out via the courts, I wouldn't put it past Kate to use her daughter as a weapon against Jeff, I know if she found out about what had happened she would be filled with rage, she's sacrificed way to much for him for him to be treating her like this.


What do I do??! Do I tell her the truth or don't tell her anything at all etc?? Please give me your opinions on this and explain your reasons why you have come to your certain opinions/conclusions etc. I really appreciate any input you can give me on this situation!

ps: I apologize for the incredibly long post, i just felt that i needed to tell the story with as much detail as possible, plus i think i needed to vent a bit, its all been very emotional 😊 .
 
Last edited:
First, you say that Jeff is proud. I think thats wrong, he's complexed. I find nothing wrong in deceiving strangers, but a person who would backstab his mate is filth.
My opinion is, whatever you do it will be wrong and someone will suffer. However this Jeff guy is really miserable. He has no spine AT ALL. If it was him who screwed his life, he has no right to pull others with him and get away with betrying them. Also, I strongly believe that no matter how lovesick a person is, with willpower and REAL pride every kind of rash behavior can be suppressed.
Im not saying that you should, but if I were in your shoes, certainly I would retaliate with all my might for scarring my pride. Hell, I would find a way to humiliate him.
 
Your post is far too long to post a detailed reply to, T-P chan, so just some of my main thoughts, I hope one or two may be helpful.

On the subject of length, I know that your posts are always long, thoughtful and detailed. I also appreciate that it's been cathartic to get this off your chest by writing it down, but I fear the length will deter readings and thus replies. How about editing your first post to include a synopsis right at the top? Then you'll get more answers, and people can still read the detail if they wish further down.

Now, you are younger than I, and life is a long learning curve (hopefully very long!) which is often steep at times. I think that if you and your fiance reflect back on the night's events you may be able to use that experience to learn lessons for the future.

I understand that your fiance trusts your faithfulness, but perhaps he shouldn't have fallen asleep and left you with someone he knows has tried to, and successfully, slept with one of his friend's girlfriends in the past (that he knows about - there may be more!) I certainly wouldn't leave my girlfriend with such a person - not because I doubted her, but because I would not want her to fall into in the unpleasant position that you found yourself in.

Also, perhaps it's worth talking to your fiance about his choice of friends in the first place? Again I know you are both young and still learning, and I do not mean to blame you at all, just suggest that better decisions might have been made. I personally could never trust a person who had slept with another's girlfriend. Without trust, for me, there is no 'being friends' and most definitely no chance of ever becoming 'best mates'.

T-P chan, would you describe yourself as an 'assertive' person? I ask because there is a certain sense in your writings (forgive me if I'm wrong) that, while you felt you made your feelings clear, you were somewhat helpless and let Jeff and the situation dominate you, rather than the other way around. I dearly hope that you would have dealt with things differently had, say, your boyfriend not been there (albeit pretending to sleep), but I worry because there is no sense of that in what you have written.

As it reads the situation seems to have gone on for quite some time. If it were me, then once it was clear that the topic wouldn't be dropped you could have easily said 'please stop this and talk about something else or I'll wake my fiance' or even the far more passive 'I'm tired I'm going to sleep with my fiance now'. That would have ended the situation immediately. I think you were far too sensitive (caring even) to Jeff's feelings than he deserved.

I also can't understand why your fiance let things go on for so long. He could easily have pretended to wake up far sooner and saved you much pain. However angry he was, and wanting to attack Jeff, he should be able to control himself enough to just get up and leave with you immediately...?

As to the future, I would say - do nothing, except steer well clear. Jeff obviously has enough problems, sadly, that his relationship is doomed already; if not by the situation as it already exists, then through his own actions. Why cause yourself more trouble over someone who's behaved so badly already towards you and his 'best mate'?

I understand your sympathy to Jeff's partner, and most especially the child, but she and Jeff will have to work things out anyway - and it seems they both know that things should be different, and their lives are not destined together - so why involve yourselves at the heart of their problems, when you're now well clear of what was a very uncomfortable situation?

So I would say that you yourself should cut off all contact with both of them. Let Jeff try to explain things as the need arises between them (but that will no longer be your concern, of course!) - that's his problem, and not one that you have created, but that his own actions have. It's up to him, I think.

If I were your boyfriend, though, and really was previously 'best mates' with Jeff, I would try to help him as much as I could before cutting off contact. From the sounds of it he does seriously need professional help, and I would try my best to get him, or encourage him to seek, that help. I would try to be as compassionate as possible, but I would no longer regard him as a true friend in my own mind.
 
Last edited:
On the subject of length, I know that your posts are always long, thoughtful and detailed. I also appreciate that it's been cathartic to get this off your chest by writing it down, but I fear the length will deter readings and thus replies. How about editing your first post to include a synopsis right at the top? Then you'll get more answers, and people can still read the detail if they wish further down.


Yeah i do agree but i found it very difficult leaving any of the detail out in this story, the most important stuff is the writing in normal size, the writing in small size is just details of the story, i think i will edit the post in a moment to say that.




I understand that your fiance trusts your faithfulness, but perhaps he shouldn't have fallen asleep and left you with someone he knows has tried to, and successfully, slept with one of his friend's girlfriends in the past (that he knows about - there may be more!) I certainly wouldn't leave my girlfriend with such a person - not because I doubted her, but because I would not want her to fall into in the unpleasant position that you found yourself in.

Also, perhaps it's worth talking to your fiance about his choice of friends in the first place? Again I know you are both young and still learning, and I do not mean to blame you at all, just suggest that better decisions might have been made. I personally could never trust a person who had slept with another's girlfriend. Without trust, for me, there is no 'being friends' and most definitely no chance of ever becoming 'best mates'.


Seriously my fiance trusted Jeff a great deal before all this happened, neither of us thought that Jeff would do something like this, we both thought he had more morals than this. If my fiance had distrusted Jeff around me he wouldn't have even been friends with him.


T-P chan, would you describe yourself as an 'assertive' person? I ask because there is a certain sense in your writings (forgive me if I'm wrong) that, while you felt you made your feelings clear, you were somewhat helpless and let Jeff and the situation dominate you, rather than the other way around. I dearly hope that you would have dealt with things differently had, say, your boyfriend not been there (albeit pretending to sleep), but I worry because there is no sense of that in what you have written.


I'm not especially assertive, but Jeff knew me well enough to know my feelings, i did not lead him on at all at any point in this whole story. I guess i was more shocked than anything else in the situation, i never expected to face such a situation with Jeff ever. Up until that day, he had always seemed like quite a decent guy.
I guess some girls would hit a guy if he said the same things Jeff said towards me, however i admit i am not a violent person by nature and i am probably incapable of acting aggressively unless i am physically handled or abused etc. I am probably too nice or passive for my own good.


As it reads the situation seems to have gone on for quite some time. If it were me, then once it was clear that the topic wouldn't be dropped you could have easily said 'please stop this and talk about something else or I'll wake my fiance' or even the far more passive 'I'm tired I'm going to sleep with my fiance now'. That would have ended the situation immediately. I think you were far too sensitive (caring even) to Jeff's feelings than he deserved.


I guess a part of me wanted to know how far he'd actually go. In no way did i lead him on. But i thought to myself "if i just leave, then that doesn't change the fact that what this guy is doing is in his nature. I'd rather know what someone is really like than prefer to live in ignorant bliss of who they really are etc".
Would you rather know or not know what your "friends" are capable of? If one of my friends was a rapist, i would want to know, just as much as i would want to know if one of my friends was the type of person who would try and seduce a friends partner etc.
If you leave the situation, you will never know. I was shocked at what was happening, i couldn't believe what was happening, i had to see it to believe it. But i did not encourage or lead him on at any point- what he did he did of his own immoral accord.

I also can't understand why your fiance let things go on for so long. He could easily have pretended to wake up far sooner and saved you much pain. However angry he was, and wanting to attack Jeff, he should be able to control himself enough to just get up and leave with you immediately...?

The house was locked and Jeff had the keys, my fiance did not want to cause a scene that could have woken Jeffs girlfriend or daughter up (their house has paper thin walls), not just that but i guess he also wanted to know how far Jeff would try to take things- he said to me that if Jeff had tried to do anything to me, or i had been less faithful, he would have got up in an instant and beaten the cr*p out of Jeff etc.

As to the future, I would say - do nothing, except steer well clear. Jeff obviously has enough problems, sadly, that his relationship is doomed already if not by the situation as it already exists, the through his own actions. Why cause yourself more trouble over someone who's behaved so badly already towards you and his 'best mate'?

I understand your sympathy to Jeff's partner, and most especially the child, but she and Jeff will have to work things out anyway - and it seems they both know that things should be different, and their lives are not destined together - so why involve yourselves at the heart of their problems, when you're now well clear of what was a very uncomfortable situation?

So I would say that you yourself should cut off all contact with both of them. Let Jeff try to explain things as the need arises between them (but that will no longer be your concern, of course!) - that's his problem, and not one that you have created, but that his own actions have. It's up to him, I think.

If I were your boyfriend, though, and really was previously 'best mates' with Jeff, I would try to help him as much as I could before cutting off contact. From the sounds of it he does seriously need professional help, and I would try my best to get him, or encourage him to seek, that help. I would try to be as compassionate as possible, but I would no longer regard him as a true friend in my own mind.





What i have decided to do right now is not to do anything. As much as i don't think Jeff will do the right thing and tell Kate about what happened, i have to at least allow him to have the time to do the right thing.

IMHO...Kate will start to suspect somethings gone wrong sooner or later. She will ask Jeff what happened, and whatever he tells her, she's going to want to hear what happened from me or my fiance. And when she phones up, i will ask her if she's spoken to Jeff, i will tell her bluntly and basically that some bad things happened between us, and that she needs to talk to him about it.

But really i'm not really decided on what i am going to do.

I'm bloody angry at Jeff right now. I had to exercise a large amount of self-discipline to resist from calling him today. Whether its right or wrong, i can't stop my heart from wanting to hurt him. My emotions were rather suppressed when the whole incident was going on, but now they are coming out, the more i think about what happened the more angry i am becoming.
You're right, perhaps he does need professional help, but i'm afraid i can't sympathize for him anymore. Incidents are too raw and recent.
 
First, you say that Jeff is proud. I think thats wrong, he's complexed. I find nothing wrong in deceiving strangers, but a person who would backstab his mate is filth.
My opinion is, whatever you do it will be wrong and someone will suffer. However this Jeff guy is really miserable. He has no spine AT ALL. If it was him who screwed his life, he has no right to pull others with him and get away with betrying them. Also, I strongly believe that no matter how lovesick a person is, with willpower and REAL pride every kind of rash behavior can be suppressed.
Im not saying that you should, but if I were in your shoes, certainly I would retaliate with all my might for scarring my pride. Hell, I would find a way to humiliate him.



I have to agree with you wholeheartedly there about everything you said apart from the retaliation thing.
My heart tells me to retaliate, it makes me want to hurt him...But its too soon to be making any such rash decisions which could have unintentionally devastating consequences on other people who i have nothing against. But at the same time this just makes me more angry- it makes me feel that i'm more considerate for his family than what he has been. I don't see why i have to sort out the problems that he created and dragged me into.
 
Thanks for your considered reply, T-P chan. I do understand a lot of your situation, and have many more thoughts, but am very tired and soon to lay down my wee head, so just a few comments.

...the most important stuff is the writing in normal size, the writing in small size is just details of the story, i think i will edit the post in a moment to say that.

Great idea!

Seriously my fiance trusted Jeff a great deal before all this happened, neither of us thought that Jeff would do something like this, we both thought he had more morals than this. If my fiance had distrusted Jeff around me he wouldn't have even been friends with him.

I still can't understand this myself. If the guy has a history of cheating with his friends' partners, then how can you trust him as your own friend? Again, this is probably my slightly greater age and experience coming through here, and I put up with things even five years ago from people that I wouldn't tolerate now, but I do think that there's a lesson to be learned here (a positive and proactive one mind!)

I'm not especially assertive, but Jeff knew me well enough to know my feelings, i did not lead him on at all at any point in this whole story.

T-P chan, one of the hardest lessons life's forced me to accept is that however much we hope others will understand us, our feelings, that we have the best of intentions to all others, and always hope they do too, many people in this world will ignore all that and behave negatively, both to us and to themselves. Such people cannot be helped by us tolerating their behaviour. We have to either try to help them see sense, or extricate ourselves from their company (or even involve the police in more extreme examples).

I am probably too nice or passive for my own good.

Neither nice nor passive are weaknesses in their own right, in fact they can be great strengths and wonderful traits, especially if accompanied by also knowing when to be firm or sufficiently assertive to protect where necessary.

I guess a part of me wanted to know how far he'd actually go. In no way did i lead him on. But i thought to myself "if i just leave, then that doesn't change the fact that what this guy is doing is in his nature. I'd rather know what someone is really like than prefer to live in ignorant bliss of who they really are etc".

I think his nature was pretty clear from quite early on in your story. At that point, for me, I wouldn't need to know any more - I would've been outta there. At the least i would have had the sleep I needed! At the same time, I understand that if you're still learning how to judge people, it might be an interesting exercise, of sorts, in human nature. Given his past history of suicide attempts, though, I wouldn't be prepared to take the risk with not only his life but mine - that something lying around wouldn't be put into use as a weapon.

Would you rather know or not know what your "friends" are capable of? If one of my friends was a rapist, i would want to know, just as much as i would want to know if one of my friends was the type of person who would try and seduce a friends partner etc.

Is it really so hard to tell? I truly feel I understand my friends, that's what makes them 'friends'! Until I do know what makes them tick, and am prepared to accept it all (the bad, especially, as well as the good) I don't count them as true friends. Again, that knowledge has come more and more so with age and experience for me - it's far easier to discern as you have been 'burnt' once or twice (or more) and as you have both been here, imvho.

And in this case your fiance already knew that this guy had seduced another of his friends' partners (or have I read that wrong?)

The house was locked and Jeff had the keys, my fiance did not want to cause a scene that could have woken Jeffs girlfriend or daughter up (their house has paper thin walls), not just that but i guess he also wanted to know how far Jeff would try to take things- he said to me that if Jeff had tried to do anything to me, or i had been less faithful, he would have got up in an instant and beaten the cr*p out of Jeff etc.

There are always choices, and it seems your boyfriend had plenty of time to think through some possibilities. You both smoke, so he could have just pretended to wake up and say he wanted to go outside for a cigarette, or that he needed something from the car etc...

I agree with your course of action for now. Do nothing. It's their problem, don't trouble yourself any more about these people who have a lot to work out by themselves, and as you say things will come to a head sooner rather than later, they will need to sort through things.
 
Last edited:
First let me say that my heart goes out for you in so many ways. Given the likelihood of your total circumstances, based on what little I have been able to glean what you have shared with us here on JREF, what you have told us regarding this event, and your emtions due to it, and possible others, I can conclude that it would be shocking and cause deep trouble within. I feel for you there.

Secondly, may I point out so as to remind (though I probably need not, seeing my posting style here at JREF) the devil is in the detail ! In presenting cases like this, it is actually as important to go into great detail, as an accurate and honest response is desired. (Thus the less the detail, the less an asker really gives weight to the accuracy and honesty of any response)

I can go along with much, if not all of what made of stone has said, and the general conclusion derfel has given. There are, nevertheless, some errors at large in some areas of your view point, as seen from your presentation. Some of these errors I have touched on in a number of threads that I am still working on, some which many likely can't quite catch yet.

First, let me offer my suggestion on what course might prove better for you in the long run:

Friendship is, of course, attachment. Attachment, in turn, is a phenomenon that many animals experience. In the human, it is a very complex thing, largely because the human brain is a very complex thing, and can have various strengths, tones, and hues...not to mention objects.

As we all generally know regardless, there will be different levels of friendship, therefore one must be careful to realize and understand those different levels among the elements mentioned just above. While the detail does not allow me to know, I will take an educated guess and say that you and jeff were social friends, as opposed to intimate friends.①

That being the case, you probably didn't really know that person so well, although your (and I will posit) husband-to-be should have. (here is where mos is following a correct lead, actually--to have not comfortably slept in such a situation after drinking and all, leads me to suspect knowledge of possible scenarios...if it had been me, and I fully known of my good, intimate friend's being fair and reasonable, I would have slept like a baby...in trusting arms.

Therefore, Tokis chan (cutting a few corners here) you shouldn't really be so angry with that person, actually. You have the full right and power of choice to break off whatever previous degree of friendship you may have had, and no one came blame you for that, but to continue to entertain emotion in the form of revenge simple due to what is otherwise a very natural event, will only cause you undue mental stress.

I say drop the friendship and the misplaced anger. (the reason it is misplaced is, I will admit, due to things probably beyond your immediate control, however, but nevertheless, misplaced.) I also say that your decision to maintain any relationship with kate should be absolutely independent of that event, and should have no bearing on any breaking off of relations with jeff.

Therefore, if you cannot do that to the fullest degree, you should break off that relationship too. In doing so you are doing no wrong whatsoever, because it is a fallacy to plot the course of their lives relative to any dependency upon your having any relationship with them.

I truly hope you let these words soak in meditatively. It's a big universe out there, you see. . . we all should make every effort to atune to the big picture.​

What jeff felt was not wrong at all ! If, as you have indirectly quoted, he had said as much, it shows me that he could stand for more experience and learning. His coming on to you, knowing that you were engauged or planning on marrying even a close friend of his, was not that totally uncommon a matter either--it does happen.

That either jeff or kate have 'extra-relationship' sexual encounters or attachments, given their circumstances, is completely natural, and is in no way cheating or immoral except in unnaturally restricted mores...which are very much nonesense anyway.

That either guy would consider beating another male for looking at a girl's body, regardless of which guy it was or which girl it was (I mean even your man will look...that's absolutely the way it works...period!) or for attempting to copulate regardless of who and what relation...seems to show me that the forces of nature are working properly, and that there is sexual competition, and possessive emotions in the works...IN ALL WAYS 'ROUND IT!!

One person who regardless of what happend on the weekend that you speak of is losing out is that little girl. As mos has pointed out, it is far more likely the case than not, that she will lose anyway--it doesn't matter whether jeff and kate stay together or split up...she is bound to lose--unless they can split up and stay together at the same time (as I have seen in some divorce/re-marry models...which seem to work fine; everyong being fully aware of the nature of things)

So, again, drop the friendship, drop the anger, focus on the track to your immediate future, chalk it up for a memory, experience, and get back on track. No sin was committed by anyone, nature just played itself out as it has been for countless numbers of years--regardless of our having bigger prefrontal cortical areas, and more powerful emotional inhibitors. AND, please do trust me, Tokis chan, if kate had been giving jeff love and sex to a satisfiable degree, and jeff that too, to her, the whole event would more likely never have happened.



① Not related to sexual intimacy;
 
I still can't understand this myself. If the guy has a history of cheating with his friends' partners, then how can you trust him as your own friend? Again, this is probably my slightly greater age and experience coming through here, and I put up with things even five years ago from people that I wouldn't tolerate now, but I do think that there's a lesson to be learned here (a positive and proactive one mind!)


As far as i am aware my fiance only found out about Jeff sleeping with a mates girlfriend not too long ago- my fiance and Jeff have known each other for years (maybe 2 and half or 3years) and he only found out about that incident relatively recently in the time they have known each other.



T-P chan, one of the hardest lessons life's forced me to accept is that however much we hope others will understand us, our feelings, that we have the best of intentions to all others, and always hope they do too, many people in this world will ignore all that and behave negatively, both to us and to themselves. Such people cannot be helped by us tolerating their behaviour. We have to either try to help them see sense, or extricate ourselves from their company (or even involve the police in more extreme examples).


I think at the end of the day he knew my feelings and he knew that i wasn't happy about him saying the things he did, but he chose to ignore all of this anyway. He knows me well enough to know that i am not a confrontational type of person, and he took advantage of this knowing this.

I was probably too weak in the situation...But i did feel enormously emotionally blackmailed in the whole of it. If i hadn't sympathized for some of the stuff he had said earlier on, then it would have been a lot easier for me to act more decisively and harshly towards him. But it is in my nature for me to listen to my friends when they are in need of been heard, when they are voicing their feelings and past which is very difficult for them to do, when they are feeling depressed and emotionally weak etc.


Is it really so hard to tell? I truly feel I understand my friends, that's what makes them 'friends'! Until I do know what makes them tick, and am prepared to accept it all (the bad, especially, as well as the good) I don't count them as true friends. Again, that knowledge has come more and more so with age and experience for me - it's far easier to discern as you have been 'burnt' once or twice (or more) and as you have both been here, imvho.

And in this case your fiance already knew that this guy had seduced another of his friends' partners (or have I read that wrong?)


IMHO, we can never truly know anyone. To believe that you know all that a person is capable of is to underestimate them. Human beings can be capable of anything, no matter how unfitting it seems to their nature or the nature that you believe you know in them.

My fiance didn't know about Jeff seducing ones of his mates girlfriends until my fiance had already known Jeff for years (and as far as i am aware the incident was one that happened before my fiance even knew Jeff).

If you found out that one of your best friends, a friend you had known for many years, had seduced one of his friends girlfriends in the past, would you trust the guy anymore? Or would you base your opinions on what you knew of him, and assume that he had learnt from his past c*ck-ups? You either take the way of thinking that "once a cheat, always a cheat", or the way of thinking of "a man can make mistakes but a man can always redeem himself and change himself for the better after learning from his mistakes"- which viewpoint/way of thinking do you take?
 
Therefore, if you cannot do that to the fullest degree, you should break off that relationship too. In doing so you are doing no wrong whatsoever, because it is a fallacy to plot the course of their lives relative to any dependency upon your having any relationship with them.
I truly hope you let these words soak in meditatively. It's a big universe out there, you see. . . we all should make every effort to atune to the big picture.[/INDENT]


My anger is just a natural emotion in the circumstances of the situation. I don't like feeling angry, but i cannot just order my body not to feel it. I feel i need to vent it someway, to help me move on and to help prevent the angry from festering away inside me. But right now i see no way for me to vent my anger in a satisfying and civilized manner. I am forced to deal with emotions i did not ask for- it is another of Jeff's selfish consequences on me, he only cared for himself and this is still the case- right now he is just trying to protect his own ***, he really doesn't care less what happens to me in all of this. I have never done anything wrong/bad towards him, however he has not treated me well in all of this at all and has only considered himself and no-one else.


What jeff felt was not wrong at all ! If, as you have indirectly quoted, he had said as much, it shows me that he could stand for more experience and learning. His coming on to you, knowing that you were engaged or planning on marrying even a close friend of his, was not that totally uncommon a matter either--it does happen.
That either jeff or kate have 'extra-relationship' sexual encounters or attachments, given their circumstances, is completely natural, and is in no way cheating or immoral except in unnaturally restricted mores...which are very much nonesense anyway.



I know Jeff can't be blamed for the way he feels about me, it is not his fault, but the wrong in the situation is what he did rather than what he felt.

If your best friend tried to sleep with your girlfriend, wouldn't you see his actions as wrong? Because such actions are completely selfish. Certainly with the way Jeff has acted since this incident, its obvious he doesn't give a damn about me or my fiance and is only trying to protect himself right now. He feels guilt for a good reason.

I can't excuse what Jeff did though on the assumption that he needs more experience or learning- he's done this before to a mates girlfriend, and he's had plenty of affairs with other women behind Kate's back- he's the most experienced person i personally know when it comes to doing this kind of thing. He should have learnt from his past mistakes, and if he hasn't its his own fault.


That either guy would consider beating another male for looking at a girl's body, regardless of which guy it was or which girl it was (I mean even your man will look...that's absolutely the way it works...period!) or for attempting to copulate regardless of who and what relation...seems to show me that the forces of nature are working properly, and that there is sexual competition, and possessive emotions in the works...IN ALL WAYS 'ROUND IT!!


I agree that all these emotions are not unnatural, however we aren't primitive animals who cannot control our emotions or actions, we are intelligent human beings, and it is completely possible for us to control our actions. No way can you excuse Jeff's behavior as being ok because its natural- he knows right from wrong.
It is no more natural or acceptable for a friend to try and sleep with his best mates fiance than for a man to murder his love rival.



One person who regardless of what happend on the weekend that you speak of is losing out is that little girl. As mos has pointed out, it is far more likely the case than not, that she will lose anyway--it doesn't matter whether jeff and kate stay together or split up...she is bound to lose--unless they can split up and stay together at the same time (as I have seen in some divorce/re-marry models...which seem to work fine; everyong being fully aware of the nature of things)
So, again, drop the friendship, drop the anger, focus on the track to your immediate future, chalk it up for a memory, experience, and get back on track. No sin was committed by anyone, nature just played itself out as it has been for countless numbers of years--regardless of our having bigger prefrontal cortical areas, and more powerful emotional inhibitors. AND, please do trust me, Tokis chan, if kate had been giving jeff love and sex to a satisfiable degree, and jeff that too, to her, the whole event would more likely never have happened.
① Not related to sexual intimacy;





So you're basically saying that what Jeff did was wrong because its natural i.e. "No sin was committed by anyone, nature just played itself out as it has been for countless numbers of years"? Do you think that murder is ok because we have the potential to commit the act in our nature??

... ... ...


Anyways...

I'm not ever going to speak to or see Jeff again if i can help it. And i am going to avoid seeing or speaking to Kate as well, because if i see her but refuse to see Jeff it will stir suspicion in Kate's mind, and to be honest i do not want to intentionally speed up the course of events, i want to give Jeff the time to do the right thing and tell Kate about what happened himself.

There's no friendship between my and Jeff anymore. Jeff was not satisfied with just being my friend, this was pretty clear during the incident, he wanted a lot more than just friendship with me, and i do not want to force someone to be my friend when they cannot settle for just that.

It sucks. It really does. It didn't want any of this to happen, if i had my way then none of this would have happened, my fiance would have still had his best friend and i would still have a friend who i could trust not to mess our friendship up.
But everything that happened was Jeff's decision. And he wasn't even happy with just ending our friendship on good terms- it would have been fine if the conversation had just ended earlier on at the point when we talked about not seeing each other so he didn't have to suffer around me anymore, but he couldn't accept just having that, he wanted more and he didn't care in the slightest the damage his actions would cause to his "best friend".

I actually feel the most sorry towards my fiance. He's not only lost a best friend, but know he knows that his best friend didn't actually give a damn about him at all, what his friend wanted was more important than any of the consequences on my fiance.

How would you feel if your "best friend" tried to seduce your girlfriend behind your back, telling her that he was so much better than you and that he was more of a man that you'd ever be etc, wouldn't you be absolutely livid? Do you think that such selfish and deceitful behavior etc is acceptable just because we're capable of it (even though we're just as capable of choosing to not act selfishly)?
 
Definitely cut off all contact with Jeff. He's not worth you or your husband's time.

You just worry about your marriage. And leave Jeff to deal with his relationships and family on his own.

And be happy!!!
 
Well, Tokis chan, I do have reason to understand that you didn't carefully visualize the concepts presented in some areas of my post; perhaps the emotional toil is overbearing.

I will, however, let it go. By staying away from both of those people you will more probably do best for yourself, for sure. As time goes on, I will explain other points to you, little by little, in indirect ways. (not here on this thread)

Only here, I will answer honestly in saying that I would not consider it wrong if a best or good friend of mine made a pass or made an attempt to copulate with a girl that I was in a sexual relationship with, because I know better. It might very well be an unproductive act, one more negative-in-outcome, but not wrong...as in abiding by some otherwise unnatural law of what is right and what is wrong as decided on by a certain social speck in time.

Please try to release your anger energy in as positive a way as you can. I wish for your speedy return to balance !!
 
tough spot....I wouldn't tell Kate. I did something like that once and I wasn't believed. I suspect she will figure it out eventually. She may already know, but doesn't want to actually believe it or do something about it. A lot of girls stay with guys who treat them less than ideal, because the "love" him and they can get him to change. Staying away from both is best, this way you are away from the fire and won't get burned.:atsui: It was best to tell the truth when asked btw....
 
I can't excuse what Jeff did though on the assumption that he needs more experience or learning- he's done this before to a mates girlfriend, and he's had plenty of affairs with other women behind Kate's back- he's the most experienced person i personally know when it comes to doing this kind of thing. He should have learnt from his past mistakes, and if he hasn't its his own fault.

It sounds to me like Jeff is the type of person who wants to see what he can get away with. Trying to seduce his friend's fiancee was probably an exciting challenge. By the way you've described his persistence and then denial afterwards, it sounds like he just wanted to see how far he could get, but then gave up when it didn't work, no matter what the consequences were (losing friends, embarrassment, etc.). At least this happened before you were married and not after - that would have been even worse. I'd consider it a valuable learning experience and keep an eye out for "opportunists" in the future.
 
I most agree with Mars Man. It is natural for people to make passes at people already taken. I've had a few co-workers and students make passes at my wife. Nothing happened, she wasn't interested (at least I don't think she was).

I think a certain amount of Kantianism is natural for people. Even people who haven't been brought up with or exposed to such sets of black and white morality seem to have some morals that they see as immutably correct.

But despite all that, humans often behave less 'nobly' than they see themselves as behaving. Most people in fact do run on the instincts we've been running on for thousands of years.... and it's not surprising that a person involved in a relationship with the mother of his daughter is going after other 'taken' women. Almost every married adult that I've been teaching for a while at least plays with the idea of other relationships, but most are content to simply flirt with other people.

It takes a geniunely happy person to be truly altruistic, and most people aren't geniunely happy. They're looking for something else, they're dissatisfied (perhaps some of those psychological mechanism are what brought humanity to the levels that we're at now). Most people have deires that are frustrated, cause that's the nature of focusing on certain desires. The pleasurable experiences in life are subject to other people's actions, to outside circumstances, and to dimisnishing returns, and the more stable kind of happiness takes alot of cultivation, plus some luck in having the normal brain circruitry that allows for that kind of happiness.

I also feel that a lot of sexual relationships are often more based in the initial chemistry than in actual friendship, and that after the chemistry has worn off, the couple are often wondering what they saw in the other person, who seems so different in so many ways. The overlap between potential true friends and those who we have good chemitsry with is not so large.

Jeff doesn't sound happy, given he attempted suicide twice, and unhappy people are more likely to think of their desires only. Part of it seems luck, as some of us are given happier dispositions than others via genetics and upbringing, and the other part is that happiness is a skill. The ability to concentrate, the ability to empathize, the ability to trust other people (some children don't seem able to form attachements due to very early experience), and the ability to be optimistic. These are all skills, and there are a few that seem cut off from those skills due to experience or different neurcircuitry). I mean a psychopath probably isn't able to empathize, and since actual morality is based on empathy, it may be they have difficulty in actually being moral. I'd more feel sorry for Jeff than get angry at him.... happier people are more likely to be kinder people, and that's been demonstrated in a few experiments. Hold off on the anger, the point is that we need to find a way for these people to get from point A (where they are now) to point B (happier and kinder). That's not to say you shouldn't draw borders that you won't allow them to cross, you should.
 
I must confess. . . I did not read everything you took your time to write. True.
I must also confess that most things that we encounter are multi-faceted, so. . . maybe I overlooked this in my hastening to provide you with some peace of mind but, maybe your fiance knows everything; Maybe your fiance asked his buddy to try you so that he could get the result; your reaction?; Maybe? Did you think about that angle? If you did, then, respond and save me the time. I can tell you exactly where to go from here if I'm missing something.

tough spot....I wouldn't tell Kate. I did something like that once and I wasn't believed. I suspect she will figure it out eventually. She may already know, but doesn't want to actually believe it or do something about it. A lot of girls stay with guys who treat them less than ideal, because the "love" him and they can get him to change. Staying away from both is best, this way you are away from the fire and won't get burned.:atsui: It was best to tell the truth when asked btw....
I don't think that we should go into third-party relations because, as we stand (helping our new friend), only the pertinent marriage is at stake. Let's just try and help this one to be fulfilled in a good way first--please. Let's just take it easy. . . for now. . . okay?
 
Last edited:
I must confess. . . I did not read everything you took your time to write. True.
I must also confess that most things that we encounter are multi-faceted, so. . . maybe I overlooked this in my hastening to provide you with some peace of mind but, maybe your fiance knows everything; Maybe your fiance asked his buddy to try you so that he could get the result; your reaction?; Maybe? Did you think about that angle? If you did, then, respond and save me the time. I can tell you exactly where to go from here if I'm missing something.



No way. He would never do that. Thats just messed up. The whole incident was completely unexpected for both of us. My fiance has not spoken to Jeff since the incident (and probably never will do, nor i either). His friendship with him was completely messed up by this.
 
No way. He would never do that. Thats just messed up. The whole incident was completely unexpected for both of us. My fiance has not spoken to Jeff since the incident (and probably never will do, nor i either). His friendship with him was completely messed up by this.
Well, good, then. If that was, indeed, a friendship--whew! You're sure that I didn't miss something? I don't, at all, mean to be crass but, Fill me in--indulge me again????. . . how many years ha--it's not even important. You trust your husband's judgement now?
 
Well, good, then. If that was, indeed, a friendship--whew! You're sure that I didn't miss something? I don't, at all, mean to be crass but, Fill me in--indulge me again????. . . how many years ha--it's not even important. You trust your husband's judgement now?

Me and my fiance have been together for almost 5 and a half years now, and my fiance knew Jeff for about 2 and a half years. I do trust my fiance's judgment though because the whole incident was just as unexpected for him as it was for me.
But i do think i'm going to be more cautious from now on, if i ever had to deal with the same sort of situation again i would probably react a lot more on the offense/aggressive, i do think i was too placid and kind in the situation with Jeff (that partly came about from being completely out of my depth though, so to speak- i felt very awkward in the whole situation).
 
Just a little update on things- i never confronted Jeff's girlfriend about things in the end, i decided to just leave the situation up to Jeff to do whatever he wanted, me and i my fiance haven't had anything to do with him or his girlfriend etc since the incident.
However i found out today that Jeff's girlfriend is pregnant again, i can't understand why they would want to have another kid together when there's obviously no love between them and they both feel chained down enough to each other enough in their prison of a relationship by their current child they have together! I just don't get some people...Ah well, i guess its none of my business now, i doubt me or my fiance will see Jeff and his family again, and i have no issues with that.
 
Quote: . . . why they would want to have another kid together . . .


I doubt that they 'wanted to'--could it possibly be a simple thing like a split moment of uncontrolled desire being unleashed? Also, do we know who the biological father is? It may have been something else. . . who knows. . .

Anyway, I'm not sure why you'd want to keep it mind to even report this much. . . but, then again, being human is good, and perhaps there's no real need to not keep in touch with, make efforts to help out, and possibly implant some degree of learning process in that relation, among those contacts.
 
perhaps i am just an evil person....
but i suddenly have the word....blackmail....pop into my head :p
your situation is a complex one....
and yes jeff is SCUM (tho pretty harmless scum as he doesn't have ANY game by the sound of it)
but still...scum.
so what do you do?
tell kate or don't tell kate....
in your moment of detail you said this
I knew/had assumed pretty early on that the main and only reason why Jeff and his girlfriend are still together is for the sake of their daughter. Jeff said he didn't want to be with his girlfriend, however he said that he knew that if he did leave his girlfriend, which we shall call Katy (not her real name), that she would most likely move on with her life and meet a new guy and go out with him instead. Jeff said his biggest fear in all of this would that his little girl would grow up to call this new guy her Daddy, and hearing this would destroy Jeff's heart (which I find quite understandable).
so.... he is with kate for the kid,
Kate (who IS your friend) would cope if they split up.
and he would have a broken heart (which is not so bad because he would have broken legs if you were my girl...standard)
for your answer though....put yourself in kate's shoes
your fiancee made a pass at her.... she said no but said nothing to you...
then 6 months down the line you find out not only that your fiancee tried to cheat on you (deception) but that your good friend lied to you about it (Deception, lie of ommision).... ok put a pain score out of 10 on that.
then consider...
your fiancee tried to cheat on you.... (deception)... and you know this because your friend told you so (Honesty, painfull truth)...put a score on that.
If you don't tell her.... you betray your friendship...how can she trust you?
bye bye friendship....as be the case
tho be warned even if you DO tell her...she might not believe you and may think you have your own agenda...
because what did you actually DO?
it's not a nice situation to be in....
but i would say HONESTY is the best policy..
however non-of this matters cos its been sorted out.....
but that is what i would say is the correct course of action....
because think about it...
if your fiancee hit on one of your friends and she didn't tell you how would you feel?
i hope jeff and kate are happy....
and it is now TOO late to say anything...go your seperate way's...
enjoy life...be happy
 
Back
Top Bottom