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Mubarak innocent vs Morsi guilty !!

Hezam

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24 Aug 2007
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So as you can see, Morsi in prision and Mubarak Free..
Muslims tried to get their freedom by democratic method, For more than 70 years of trying it always end up with coup supported by the western governments.
1- Turkey : 4 coups
2- Algeria : 1 coup , the military killed 300.000 person [ they called the victims terrorists ].
3- Pakistan: 3 coups.
4- Syria: 1 coup. the most bloody coup after the Algerian coup.
5- Egypt: 1 coup.
the 4 nations are the biggest Muslim nations, i didn't mention all coups,only the ones against Islamic parties, the coups purpose is to install a secular system by force, The coups happened after the islamic parties won with 60% of votes or more.
So i'm asking here What should we do to get our freedom like the others ?
People tried democracy over and over, It always end up with coup when poeple succeed!
It always end up " War On Terrorism " ... It's always with western support... It's always against people's will.
Mubarak who made Egypt fall down to the bottom of nations list is Now Free, And the FIRST elected president in the Egyptian History is in Prision now !!
How did your people get the freedom ?
What do you suggest opressed people to do to get their freedom ?
Do some people do not deserve freedom ?
What makes us Terrorists ?
cheers
 
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I claim neither expertise nor did I have time to follow events closely, but, Hezam, I did not have the impression that the military coup in Egypt was supported by "Western nations". Tamarod for instance seems to be quite anti-western.

It's been said that the military acted on behalf of (a majority of) those Egyptians who have grown disgruntled with Mr Morsi's authoritarian style. Also, Mr Mubarak has not been acquitted, but will remain under house arrest to await further trials. Whether those will take place or not, is another question.

Mr Morsi's election has been compared to Hitler's rise to power. While this might be considered slightly demagogic by some, in fact a lot of his policies and measures did not instill a lot of hope for a smooth transition to democracy (constitutional changes, etc).

Following the Facebook comments of my Egyptian friends, most of them seem to be pretty satisfied with the military having taken control. Two steps forward, one step back.
 
Hezam, I have told you many times donnot watch too much western TV news. It can really make you forget who you are. The most democracy country in Muslim world is described by USA as an evil country. Once Afghan was supported by America to fight SU, then years later they were described as terrorists people.
Arab use religion to control mid asia, not like Chinese. Chinese has played culture game for thousands years. So we really know what a democracy is. It is a way to control other culture and destroy it. This is also why Chinese refuse West's "democracy" strongly. And we are rebuliding our own culture and our own style of "democracy".

America's democracy cannot solve your problems. Your Muslim should rebuild a powerful united states by your own effort like SU ,EU, United states of America or united east asian states which is China. Do you really believe Christan thing can really help Muslim? The only way you need democracy is you really forget all things about Muslim and use western culture, can you do that?

This needs your own efforts, not other's, especially not from westerners(Christans). You should find a way to raise like women rights ,literacy rate or even reexplaining Koran.
 
Most people do not understand Chinese society system. Chinese has been elite society for almost 1000 yrs. Elite society is, we choose 100 from 10000 people by a national exam. Then we orgnize another exam to pick 1 only from these 100 to abosorb into government. Maybe this system is not fair about human rights, but it is abosolutely powerful. And I donot think demorcracy is better than this. Because I think it is right that a man with better ability should enjoy more rights and more reponsibilities. If you really choose 1 man from 100 to be a leader, why not just give it to the best of best? But in a democracy society, the chosed 1 man may be good at speech or have a good looking face. The best of their society may not be chosen out rightly. And I can feel Chinese politicians are much better than most of other countries' politicians.
Yes, I may be showing off. But I think I can see your muslim's advantaged and horrible part. It seems that only a few leaders from some small muslim countries could see it. Most people are just fooled by Christians. While the most powerful man of Arab seems only care about his cruise.
 
Ba'ath party and Assad family took the rule in Syria in 1963 by a coup
And they fought the Islamic parties
in February 1982 Syrian army attacked Hama and killed between 50000 and 80000 people alot of them were members in Muslim brotherhood party
Arab secularity governments fight and kill the Islamic fronts and parties in the name of secularism
 
I claim neither expertise nor did I have time to follow events closely, but, Hezam, I did not have the impression that the military coup in Egypt was supported by "Western nations". Tamarod for instance seems to be quite anti-western.
thomas, The Saudi/UAE/Kuwaiti/Bahraini/Israeli governments handled it this time on behalf of the western governments, if you were living in the ME you would wish to live in another planet.
The Gulf governments excluding Qatar do not want a democratic Arab nation, They are willing to pay anything to ruin any democratic elected government here.
Baradie, Sabahi, Mosa, Tamarod, The Egyptian media, The Supreme Constitutional Court, Central Security Forces, And on Top of them the Militray, They are keeping Egypt a slave to who pays more.
Saudi,UAE,Kuwait paid 12 billion dollars to the military for the coup, and it rained Oil on the new cursed government.
The people and the history will never forget this, The oil won't last forever.
It's been said that the military acted on behalf of (a majority of) those Egyptians who have grown disgruntled with Mr Morsi's authoritarian style. Also, Mr Mubarak has not been acquitted, but will remain under house arrest to await further trials. Whether those will take place or not, is another question.
The funny thing is what the secular parties and the Saudi gov said, They said the protestors were 30 millions ! while the UK and European newspaper talk about 400.000 protestors. i like the european newspress because they are honest and professional.
Mr Morsi's election has been compared to Hitler's rise to power. While this might be considered slightly demagogic by some, in fact a lot of his policies and measures did not instill a lot of hope for a smooth transition to democracy (constitutional changes, etc).
OMG, Morsi, the most merciful president that Egypt even got, The most kind and the closest president to his people ever, the only president who never killed an egyptian, i don't have enough words but it's enough honor for him to be called the Egyptian Nelson Mandela by the south african media and government.
Haven't you seen Muslims around the world calling him "Our president" ?
Following the Facebook comments of my Egyptian friends, most of them seem to be pretty satisfied with the military having taken control. Two steps forward, one step back.
i can't comment on this, But Egyptians who own big companies and those who their families are in the government will always side with their interests.
i just hope that this do not happen to Japan, never ever..
cheers
 
dsvlee, Prophet Mohammad told us about this already and he told us what to do, But i'm here to discuss the issue in a non-religious/cultural way.
i fully understand the Chinese rule system and i think it's better for Chinese but some Chinese need more freedom under the mother land.
If you ask a Muslim about what's happening around he will tell you that he knows already that this will happen.

Abdur Rahman, Sorry bro i added Syria to the list, i couldn't believe my eyes when the Assad attacked people with 15 Chemical rockets and After that his Soldiers celebrated all the night !!!!!
 
Hezam, I want you to look at history in the eyes of all involved. The US involvement in the Middle East was late, but was based on their own good, as they saw it. In the 19th century, the Middle East did not care about the existence of other countries, and American ships did not have any legal protection in the area. So they, and others, went about trying to design a society safe to them in their trade business. A lot has happened in the many years since, but we live with that legacy today. Both sides were looking after their own interest and profits, but one had a technological advantage. And the Middle East has suffered for it.

The United States has been very guilty of profiting at the expense of Middle Eastern citizens for too long. And both the parties of America are guilty, so it can't be solved with a vote. Nothing short of mass protests would make a difference, and even then, it might continue. The people in power have no reason to stop. If 1,000 Middle Easterners die in a day, it will get about the same coverage in Western media as the death of a single American. That is not the government's choice, that is just the business of media. People care about their own. Maybe you feel different, but do you care more about the death of your own people than that of another country's?

Sadly, I think real change only comes from people on the inside who have a real conscience. Mikail Gorbachev had one, and took himself out of power for the good of his people. If you follow any English blogs today, you'll see that a conscientious whistle-blower, Manning, has been sentenced to 35 years for revealing warcrimes, more than double of most of the people who actually committed warcrimes. The system is against people, so try not to hate Westerners for not throwing their lives away to make change. There is a reason that those who do are remembered as heroes: they are the few, not the majority.

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I really would like to see Westerners abandon all their interests in the Middle East. At the same time, I do worry about people there (a small minority) wanting to exact revenge... As a minority of all countries seem to do (dvslee has already replied to this thread, so case in point. He tries to fight back for the last 100 years of Chinese history).
 
nahadef, thanks for reply, im trying to share experience not to blame or to seek revenge bud.
like the american experience when they fought the british colonization or the French against Nazis etc.
 
Well, just know that a lot of Westerners share your frustration and feel regret that their country's have caused so much misery.
 
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