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windresistant

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23 Mar 2009
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Hello everyone, I'm Ashley. I'm looking for some advice on whether or not it would be ideal for me to go to Japan in the future to teach, and how to prepare ahead of time to even do so.

I am an American and I have never left the country. I am taking some Japanese classes, and I'm halfway through to a bachelor's degree in Art Education. I also minor in English, and wouldn't mind at all teaching in a conversational school or simply teaching English to Japanese children.

If I did this, it would be three years from now or so.

I also have a son who is almost two, and a husband, both of which I would want to take with me.

I don't even have specific questions that need answered, really. Just advice, and suggestions of things I'll need to do ahead of time. (And whether or not the husband and son would be able to come with me because of my visa, or if there would be an incredible amount of downfalls.

Thanks.
 
Ashley,
The easy answers are:

Yes of course you could take your family with you. With a work visa, you could sponsor them for dependent visas.

The harder questions follow.

1. whether or not it would be ideal for me to go to Japan in the future to teach
VERY personal question. Other than knowing you have a family and have not finished a degree (which you'll need to do), we know nothing about you, and I am not a job counselor. I've been teaching here for over 10 years, though. Realize that the teaching market right now is flooded with teachers. VERY flooded, so that it is an employer's choice, not usually that of the teacher. Who knows what it'll be like in a couple of years when you are minimally qualified?

Daycare if very limited here, and if you put your son in a facility, you'll probably have to know lots of Japanese just to communicate with the staff. I don't know if they'll even take a non-Japanese child in your situation without that.

Non-teaching jobs usually require a fair amount of reading/writing/speaking Japanese. This is for your hubby's benefit to know.

2. how to prepare ahead of time to even do so.
Of course there are ways to prepare! Learning Japanese is one of them, but realize that it is not usually allowed in the classroom, so any that you learn will usually be used with your J staff or outside of work. It's a no-brainer that your husband, then, should also be studying.

Learning what the market is like will also reduce some culture shock. Learning how J businesses operate will also help. I suggest lurking and reading posts on the ESL Cafe for a few months to get you up to speed on both of these.

Get some training in teaching if you plan to make this a long-term endeavor, or if you are the type that is petrified of being in front of a crowd. Most newbies to Japan have zero teaching experience and no background in it academically.

I also strongly suggest that you read this FAQ, especially the parts I contributed to it.
General advice re: moving to Japan

Now, let me ask you a couple of questions.

What does your husband plan to do while you teach? How about your son?
Since a conversation school salary will barely (if at all) support a family of 3, what do you and your husband plan to do about that? How much savings do you have, and how much debt do/will you have to pay off in 3 years?
 
I actually had no idea that the job market for teachers was flooded. I saw ads all over the place, and had heard of a few people who went for the teach-English-in-Japan thing, so I assumed there were plenty of jobs. Thank you for informing me of that, I'll research the job market further and browse around the ESL Cafe to get up to speed, especially if this becomes a serious plan.

I do plan on learning as much written and vocal Japanese as possible, as well as teaching my son. This is the best time for him to learn, after all. Obviously my husband knows he would have to learn too, and in fact would enjoy it.

Since I am in a teaching-oriented major, I'll learn as much as any other teacher about what is involved in teaching a classroom. I'm sure I'll have to teach plenty in school, and I don't doubt I'll have jobs and internships directed that way too. I'm pretty confident in that area.

Wow, you have been teaching there for ten years! No wonder you have so much advice. I do plan on having a temporary job, 1-2 years, just so you know. Do you know anyone who moved to Japan with young kids, and how they were affected? My son is a very bright, sociable person, and we have moved a lot in the past, so I think it would be more of a fun experience for him than some other kids who have really close grandparents and that sort of thing.

My husband is finishing up his master's, he does contractual jobs right now writing algorithms and programming software for websites, that sort of thing. They are telecommuting jobs, and he will be able to get even higher-paying jobs as soon as he graduates. Like me, he would like to settle down and go work a 9-5 job someday, but he thinks that it is worth it to do the contract jobs for this experience if it ends up being a good situation for me and the little one.

Anyhow, that helps with the funding, as well as childcare, since he'll be home all the time. I would like to get my son out to socialize and learn, but I'm sure after residing there for a while I could get him into a daycare and he would be fine. (It is nice to have the option of him staying with us most of the time though.)

Also, after I graduate I shouldn't have too much debt. I have plenty of scholarships and grants, and all my loans are subsidized.

I did read the FAQ, actually, right after I posted the last one. There are a lot of valuable links there, especially about visas and laws in Japan.
 
Since I am in a teaching-oriented major, I'll learn as much as any other teacher about what is involved in teaching a classroom. I'm sure I'll have to teach plenty in school, and I don't doubt I'll have jobs and internships directed that way too. I'm pretty confident in that area.
Unless you have some TEFL/TESL/TESOL focus, you won't be as prepared as you think. Classes here are quite different from teaching most othe subjects back home.

1. Students here are very shy/reserved and don't usually volunteer or answer in class. Most classes by Japanese teachers are teacher-centered.

2. Foreign teachers have a hard time breaking students of that habit, no matter what the age of the students (except the very young).

3. Japanese teachers provide the grammar instruction. We foreigners usually provide the other stuff so that students can get conversation practice and other instruction in using English. Depending on what age you teach, students may not care one bit about what you are trying to teach them. Ex. In HS, they are preparing for college entrance exams and don't need our conversation classes, but they get them anyway.

Wow, you have been teaching there for ten years! No wonder you have so much advice.
I've taught in conversation school, private lessons, high school, and now university. I've also been on these discussion forums for about 11-12 years picking up news and advice.

I do plan on having a temporary job, 1-2 years, just so you know. Do you know anyone who moved to Japan with young kids, and how they were affected?
No, I don't know anyone personally in that situation. Aside from asking around more (like on eslcafe.com/discussion), I'd suggest you look at tokyowithkids.com.

My son is a very bright, sociable person, and we have moved a lot in the past, so I think it would be more of a fun experience for him than some other kids who have really close grandparents and that sort of thing.
No offense, but that is your opinion of him in an English-speaking world where customs are not the same. REALLY understand what you and he will be facing when he is placed in a Japanese environment. What you teach him in terms of the language will not be what he hears from the kids (who have not learned proper grammar, just like we didn't at his age). And, the socializing is different.
 
I do know that the people are very shy and reserved emotionally and otherwise. I didn't really think about that applying in the classroom. I'm assuming the fact that they don't care that much about my class won't be too different from classes here in America, where some students care about learning, but for the most part they just want a decent grade so they can get on to college. I go to Ohio State University, and it is rather large, so I'm sure they have some classes focused that way, so that I could at least get the idea of what I'm supposed to do.

How much different is the culture in ways that it would affect my son? I suppose that is what I care most about. I can work through hardships or surprises, and I know that my husband and I are both calm and patient enough to get along in their world. But if the change is going to be too hard for Brendan, I'll just do a summer vacation when he's older instead of the longer experience.
 
The vast majority of entry-level ESL teachers in Japan are single. If they are married (to non-Japanese), then their spouses are most often teachers as well. Very few entry-level teachers have children to worry about.

I wouldn't bring a dog overseas if I were teaching English. Bringing a young child is worse. After all, you could always put the dog out of its misery.

The amount of money you would make as an entry-level teacher is very low. It is enough to survive, in most cases. Many teachers have more than one job (night classes, weekend classes) and also do private tutoring. Learn the ropes, advance in your career, and eventually you can make real money.
 
Glenski has years on me, but I'll offer what insight I can.
Depending on the age you teach, they may not even care about grades. At elementary school, the kids don't receive English grades (yet anyway, who knows what'll happen as they implement the new curriculum), so obviously the only motivation to remember stuff is if the class is interesting or if they get something (the kids who like English will like it, the rest just want stickers).

I have a number of friends who teach anywhere from K-12, public or private, and depending on your school, college may not be a concern at all. If you're in a city, I'm sure it's a bit different, but kids at an agricultural school, trade school, or just in a situation where they will start working immediately after HS do not see a need for English. Quite frankly, I don't see a need for them to learn English either.

In terms of being reserved, well, that may happen a lot, but there are also plenty of smart alecks, kids with ADD, whatever who love to disrupt a class, especially if they know the teacher may not understand whatever comment they make. I prefer the energetic classes over the quiet ones, regardless of what they may say to me, but be prepared to have all manner of things said to you.
 
Well, the thing is, you have to remember that I'm already prepared (mentally) for some of this stuff. It isn't much better for teachers in America at the moment after all, especially at the entry level (financially). And since I'm in just about the worst field - teaching art - for getting a job, I'll likely start out with inner-city kids who don't give a **** about learning for the most part. And, at least from my experience in the neighborhood where I grew up, there were approximately 2 people interested in learning about art for the sake of art. The teacher had to make the subject matter interesting and fun, since it wasn't required. In fact, I'm glad to hear that they don't grade the kids in English at such a young age. There shouldn't be pressure like that on them.

Aside from that - as Glenski said earlier, if they are often studying for other classes that are actually important to them, couldn't I just set them up in groups and let them study, as long as they did it in English? (Not every day, obviously, but maybe before exams or something like that. Just an idea.)

To HelloKyoto: Why exactly wouldn't you bring a child or even a dog overseas? Like I said, money isn't really the issue here. If it was, I wouldn't be considering it.
 
Go ahead and put kids in groups. That will make life easier for you when you have classes of 20, 30, 40, or more. But it absolutely, positively no guarantee whatsoever that they will do anything in English.
 
Yeah, grouping kids is great for getting them pumped up, but terrible for English. Occasionally you'll encounter a perfect storm where the activity, their mood, and the material all coincide to the point where they'll do it and do it enthusiastically.

One of the weird things you'll encounter at any level is the weird Japanese-English that they pick up from mass media...those not in Japan may not understand, but I had to deal with Edo Harumi's influence every time I said the word "good."
 
To HelloKyoto: Why exactly wouldn't you bring a child or even a dog overseas? Like I said, money isn't really the issue here. If it was, I wouldn't be considering it.
For a dog, it can be very traumatic. Some countries are more dog friendly than others. And of course, a lot depends on the age and health of the dog. Furthermore, the lifestyle of an entry-level ESL teacher tends not to be the best environment for a dog. On average in Japan, an ESL teacher will stay for 3 years before leaving the country. Many teachers leave after one year.

It is better to leave the dog at home. Otherwise, the dog will experience a lot of stress during the transition. Dogs don't care about seeing Japan!! They are dogs and deserve a stable home, where they can see their owners on a regular basis. Entry-level ESL teachers tend to move around and work a lot. When they are not working, most teachers will try to go sightseeing.

Plus, having a dog will make finding housing much, much more difficult. Same goes for having a young child, not to mention finding daycare and schooling if appropriate.

Also, consider what happens if your dog or child gets sick, especially since you don't speak Japanese. It can turn into a nightmare for you.


If you have no one to leave your dog with, I would consider paying someone to take care of your dog while you are gone. A kennel would be one option. Or you could find a dog breeder or someone else that handles animals.

When you first go teach English overseas, it is best for you to be single or married to another teacher. Some college sweethearts get married and head overseas to teach, but most people go alone. It is just not that the money is low, but you will also deal with isolation and culture shock. Having a fellow teacher who is also your spouse can help alleviate some of this, but bringing a dog or child can be very bad idea.
 
Luckily I don't have a dog, then. (I have a cat though. I don't think that environment would be too bad for a cat, but I'd probably leave him with my aunt who loves cats instead.)

What do you guys do to get the kids to have fun or at least somewhat willingly speak English? I would think it would be easier at younger ages, you could tell stories and whatnot. And there could be illustrations. :D But with the older kids, I guess I don't understand what you guys are saying about them being shy and whatnot, and yet they don't listen to you when you say "speak English and do this". Are they just shy in communication with the teacher, but since they will have friends in the class, they are confident enough to be defiant?

Anyhow, as for my child - I thank you all for your advice and thoughts on taking him. With you guys as well as other research, I'm leaning towards staying here and getting a crappy American job instead of a temp. crappy Japanese job. The experience would be wonderful for a young married person or a single person, but it isn't something that a family like mine needs to be doing. I know it would be a great experience for everyone if everything went well, but there are a lot of opportunities for things to turn sour, and obstacles for my son to overcome. He needs to learn within the safety of a familiar culture and language.

I guess my questions above are more out of curiosity than anything else. Besides, I'm still going to be a teacher, and maybe your advice will come in handy some other way as well.
 
If you want to know more about how to teach kids, read the Yahoo listserv messages (or join in!) about ETJ-Activities or just ETJ.

You may also want to define the age group "kids". I call my college students "kids" from time to time, not to mention my own 5-year-old.

I guess I don't understand what you guys are saying about them being shy and whatnot, and yet they don't listen to you when you say "speak English and do this". Are they just shy in communication with the teacher, but since they will have friends in the class, they are confident enough to be defiant?
The nature of Japanese people in general is to be reserved and very indirect in speech. Google the expressions "honne" and "tatemae" for a primer. In school, a more specific case, kids are taught in teacher-focused environments, and they are afraid to ask questions. Put a foreign person in the room, and it magnifies the fear. Expect them to answer questions, especially in front of their peers, and you are looking for a deer-in-the-headlights moment of panic. They don't want to make mistakes, so they just don't talk.

As for as not using the English, you have to realize that they learn grammar for 6 years in JHS/SHS, and get very little or no instruction in how to use it in conversation. It's almost all devoted to grammar-translation to pass college entrance exams. Not every school has a foreign teacher in it, and when they do, it's meant to help with listening and conversation practice, but they are nearly hopeless in learning such. The younger grades are more enthusiastic because they are further from the college entrance exams.

Also, putting kids with weak skills in groups and expecting them to create complete grammatically correct sentences with understandable pronunciation (and actually understand it when their partner utters it) is usually not going to happen. Fear. Lack of ability. Peer pressure. It all adds up. You have to instill an atmosphere of comfort, and get them to really believe making mistakes is ok (in fact, the ONLY way you can help them). This is not easy for many/most students, no matter what age to grasp.
 
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Other than some private lessons, my experience solely rests with children from ages 3-12, which means no grammar background at all. Like Glenski mentioned, I'm primarily there for pronunciation and to get used to listening to the language. Kids at this age have no problem saying things like "eigo iya da" (I don't like/want to do English) in the middle of class in a fairly loud voice, and I have no power to discipline them under my contract. Most of the entry level jobs ask that you leave discipline to the school, and often this kind of behavior is dismissed as kids being kids. Smaller kids also get distracted very quickly by their friends or things going on around them, so keeping their attention, even in Japanese, is a constant battle.

Not only do the kids not want to make mistakes, they may not be paying attention. I zoned out many a time in school, and I'm sure it's no different for children in this country. Peer pressure does indeed happen, and often when someone makes a mistake, you'll "kantan da shi," (this is easy). Elementary kids in general don't care about hurting feelings or being rude until they're corrected, which may or may not happen.
 
Glenski - I remember being in French class and... well, we had a teacher who wasn't so awesome. But suddenly in my fourth year she had us start to (finally) say the stuff back to her, including singing the French National Anthem in front of the class, and doing activities in groups like playing board games. She would walk around the room and help us. We would slip and use English a lot, but it did teach us how to fumble around and get some words out that at least someone could understand, even if it wasn't very good.

MeAndroo - That must be a hard thing to deal with when it happens. Probably punishment isn't the solution at that age anyways, although I don't know what you must do when things like that happen. Kids are kids no matter what language, haha.
 
windresistant,
You can't compare the openness and such of American students taking a foreign language class with Japanese students. Give it up. Unless you've been here and done that, you really have no concept about what you're trying to say (which is what, by the way?). I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's just reality.
 
Sorry Glenski, everything that everyone else says is wrong, and everything you say is right. Either way, thanks for your help, everyone.

(I wasn't trying to say anything, I was trying to gain information. So, if you haven't taught in Japan, you shouldn't teach in Japan? You had a first year too, you know. Don't be so discouraging to people interested in this field.)
 
(...So, if you haven't taught in Japan, you shouldn't teach in Japan? You had a first year too, you know. Don't be so discouraging to people interested in this field.)
I am not discouraging, and I never implied you shouldn't teach here. I am saying statements you have made are not based in reality or experienced fact. Sorry that you can't see it that way.

The mindset of Japanese students/teachers is not like yours when you took French. That was my main point in the recent post.

I suggest researching a little about Japan's educational system. Here is a little help to get you started.
http://www.ed.gov/pubs/JapanCaseStudy/index.html
http://www1.doshisha.ac.jp/~kkitao/online/www/kitao/int-teij.htm
http://www1.doshisha.ac.jp/~kkitao/library/article/tejk.htm
ELT Books offers English teaching books in Japan at 20% off for all Western books.
ELT Books offers English teaching books in Japan at 20% off for all Western books.

Just so you know, I have proofread for free literally scores of resumes from people from a lot of countries, who want to come as teachers. I have compiled many megabytes of data from web sites and offered it free of charge on half a dozen forums like this. I've written FAQs and served as moderator (and turned DOWN the job of moderator several times) on sites, including a blog for a professional teachers' organization in Japan. Discourage people? I don't think so.
 
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MeAndroo - That must be a hard thing to deal with when it happens. Probably punishment isn't the solution at that age anyways, although I don't know what you must do when things like that happen. Kids are kids no matter what language, haha.

In my case, I ignore them. The homeroom teacher will either force them to participate and move on to the next student, or also ignore them. I'm of the opinion that everyone has subjects they hate and don't really want to do, but you should at least put forth some effort before you give up, not give up the first day and every subesequent one. Considering all we do is learn 10 vocab words and play games with those words over the course of 45 minutes, I don't get what kind of class those kids DO want to participate in. Something dodgeball related, I suppose.

I'm usually more concerned with the kids belittling their classmates, and the homeroom teachers are as well. Those kinds of comments are usually put down fairly quickly, since no one likes to be told, directly or not, that they're stupid for not remembering a specific word.
 
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