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long, run-on sentences

Paul Kelaey

後輩
26 Jul 2008
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Hi,

Can anyone suggest how I might improve my reading comprehension skills. I find I can read a long passage (say one paragraph), identifying 90-95% of the individual words, but when I finish, have little idea of what I just read. Reading the paragraph a 2nd and 3rd time does little to help me piece together the "gist" of the text.

Al too often I try to find passages with the English translation, which I then too heavily rely upon to ascertain the meaning. I find the long sentences pose problems for me since I seem unclear what is the subject, topic etc.

Any advice would be appreciated.

~Paul
 
read it outloud, slowly and try to recognize the words you know. if theres a word u dont know, just skip it and keep reading till your done.
if theres a word u done know when ur done, look it up.

Then, read it again slowly, only this time translate in your head. like if you were reading:

neko wa ima ringo o tabete imasu.

read it, then again. only this time translate in your head "cat... now.. apple... eat -te iru form" then you'll be able to connect "the cat is eating an apple now"

this is basically what i do if it doesnt click right away.
 
Translating as you go along has the same effect on developing Japanese proficiency as would training for a marathon by tying your shoelaces together.
 
Hi,
Can anyone suggest how I might improve my reading comprehension skills. I find I can read a long passage (say one paragraph), identifying 90-95% of the individual words, but when I finish, have little idea of what I just read. Reading the paragraph a 2nd and 3rd time does little to help me piece together the "gist" of the text.
Al too often I try to find passages with the English translation, which I then too heavily rely upon to ascertain the meaning. I find the long sentences pose problems for me since I seem unclear what is the subject, topic etc.
Any advice would be appreciated.
~Paul
Ask your wife, in simple Japanese, "who, what, where, when" etc. questions designed to tease apart the elements of a complex text one phrase at a time...😌
 
Basically, what Mike said.

When you *stop* translating as you go along, you will have begun to actually internalize Japanese. It's like those people trying to learn Japanese and separating kanji out and studying them in isolation as if they're some different and distinct part of the language. They're not.

Tony
 
I've actually found that reading something aloud can sometimes detract from reading comprehension, as you are more concerned with the sounds associated with the individual words than the meaning of the sentence or paragraph overall. My advice would be to try and read short things (sentences, paragraphs, articles), and then try to summarize them (preferably in Japanese) without referring back to them. This can not only help your reading comprehension, but also improve your memory retention.
 
read it outloud, slowly and try to recognize the words you know. if theres a word u dont know, just skip it and keep reading till your done.
Get a professional audio version if at all possible to give yourself the best opportunity for picking up orally what isn't clicking visually and vice versa. Either as a streaming newscast with online transcript, CD-ROM accompanying book or whatever. At least that is the strategy that has accelerated me from a struggling reader to acceptable conversationalist.

Just hold your patience throughout the entire process because while listening might be ultimately more effective than reading alone it also takes a lot longer to master. 😌


read it, then again. only this time translate in your head "cat... now.. apple... eat -te iru form" then you'll be able to connect "the cat is eating an apple now"

this is basically what i do if it doesnt click right away.
Either translate as you go, before or after but it's going to continue until you start thinking in Japanese.
 
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Hi Elizabeth,

Thanks for the advice. Will having an audio version of the text to accompany the reading passage help me with understanding the gist of the paragraph and at the sentence level?

Bernie
 
Hi Elizabeth,

Thanks for the advice. Will having an audio version of the text to accompany the reading passage help me with understanding the gist of the paragraph and at the sentence level?

Bernie

Hello, Bernie san. Hajimemashite.

May I ask you how you have been learning Japanese? Have you finished learning Basic grammar? I have a feeling that you are having some trouble in grammar. Could you please give us an example paragraph you are having trouble with?

Hirashin
:)
 
Hi Elizabeth,

Thanks for the advice. Will having an audio version of the text to accompany the reading passage help me with understanding the gist of the paragraph and at the sentence level?

Bernie
Of course listening alone is not a substitute for basic grammar or conventional text book study. But if what you want is to internalize the language on an intuitive level, to be able to speak and have reasonable conversations, you're going to have to be able to understand well auditorially. If your goal is only to read fluently, it's probably always going to feel a bit like translating from English.
 
Hi Hirashin,

I have been studying Japanese on my own using textbooks. I have studied basic grammar on my own. Below is the reading passage that was VERY difficult for me-i.e. trying to ascertain the subject/topic at the sentence level, and then answer the comprehension questions.

Paul


この話をする前に、「時間というものは作ることができない」という、あたり前のことを言っておきたい。1日が24時間であることを変えることはできない。 睡眠時間を削ればいいと言う人もいるだろう。必要な睡眠時間は個人差があるうえに、無理をすると苦痛も大きい。 楽しいことをするために睡眠時間を削るのはそれほど苦にならないものだけれども、勉強のために睡眠時間を削るなど、①なかなかできるものではない。で は、どうすれば時間ができるのか。 おおむね(注1)二つの方法がある。 ひとつは、自分にとっての「ムダな時間を減らす」ことだ。 大学に受かるための時間が必要ならば、それに関係のない時間を減らせばいい。 これは必ずしも、食事や入浴の時間を削れというわけではない。 ②あたり前のように過ごしているムダな時間をなくせぱいいのだ。(中略)) 1日1時間はテレビを見てもいいというような、ある程度の娯楽は許されるだろう。 でも、どれもこれも十分な時間をとるのは、とうてい(注2)無理な話だ。 だから、どうしても自分にとって捨てられないことや捨てられない時間を二つか三つに絞り、それ以外は削ちなければならない。 時間を増やす二つ目の方法は、③「時間の密度を上げる」ことである。 時間の密度を上げるということは、1時間で5ページ勉強するのと10ページ勉強するのとでは、時間の密度が倍もちがうということだ。 前にも言ったように、勉強をやっていないのに「できる」人は、時間的に多く勉強していないだけで、人の何倍ものスピードで十分な勉強量(注3)をこなしているはずだ。 ここで浮上(注4)してくるのが、④一見(注5)ムダに見える時間の効用(注6)である。1 時間だけはテレビを見る、彼女と電話で話すなど何でもいいのだが「遊び」があることで残りの2、3時間の密度がアップ(注7)するなら、それはムダな時間ではなく投資(注8)の時間ということになる。 (⑤)、時間をうまく使うには、自分であれこれと試しながち、こうしたほうが能率が上がる、これは時間のムダだ、ということを知っていく必要がある。 自分で試しつつ、どうやったら時間の密度を上げられるか、何がムダで何がムダでないかを判断できるようになれば、時間を増やすことができるようになる。 そして、一度こういう能力を身につけておけば、一生、時間をうまく使える人になれゐのである。 (和田秀樹『まじめすぎる君たちへ』による)
 
First of all an aside: it seems you've got some typos in there. 削ちなければならない I'm pretty sure should be 削らなければならない; 試しながち should be 試しながら; and 人になれゐ should be なれる.

Secondly, I wanted to ask how well you understand this passage, and where the problem spots are. It seems pretty straightforward to me (and interesting that watching TV and talking to your girlfriend on the phone can be an investment of time towards studying), so I can't guess at where you might be having problems (even if it didn't seem straightforward to me I wouldn't be able to guess that though...). If you point out specific spots where you're having problems we can help you understand them so that you can get used to the sentence structures or whatever it is that's throwing you off.

Incidentally, on a more personal note, when I used to have problems understanding what I was reading I found that probably 95% of the time it was because I didn't understand the vocabulary. The grammar wasn't ever much of a problem for me, but I certainly underestimated the importance of truly understanding the content words, and it caused me all kinds of headaches. For instance, the fact that する verbs can be either transitive or intransitive depending on the verb escaped me for a while, but once I realized this very basic and important fact seeing verbs like 発覚する became much easier to understand.

That's just a bit from my personal experience. I'm not sure how much it resonates with yours, but there it is for what it's worth.
 
Hi Hirashin,
I have been studying Japanese on my own using textbooks. I have studied basic grammar on my own. Below is the reading passage that was VERY difficult for me-i.e. trying to ascertain the subject/topic at the sentence level, and then answer the comprehension questions.
Paul
この話をする前に、「時間というものは作ることができない」という、あたり前のことを言っておきたい。1日が24時間であることを変えることはできない。
If it's that overwhelming, scale down to a level of simpler vocabulary and crisper, more highly structured sentences. After only having studied basic grammar, naturally an intermediate level passage is frustratingly unattainable. Do you feel more confident looking at of a similar themed text but in this range, for example ?

時間に追われるのは、アメリカ人にとって日常生活の部分だと思います。:)
 
I don't think a direct translation of the idiomatic phrase "part of life" works very well there. BIANANS.
 
How is this sentence? It's from a book about rental real estate (for owners).

新築でもまったくないわけではないですが、中古だとと くに、ガス、給湯、トイレ、風呂といった設備の老朽化 にともない、入居者から改善の申し入れが多くなってき ます。

I just ask to get a better idea of your Japanese level.
 
I don't think a direct translation of the idiomatic phrase "part of life" works very well there. BIANANS.
No, I have seen 部分 in such instances but probably something like 日常生活の一部 is better. I was also trying to make it as transparent a translation as possible... :eek:
 
part of life = 当たり前(のこと)?

That was my impression, 日常生活の当たり前, but I thought Elizabeth was trying to rephrase without using 当たり前. I think her idea of 一部 is a much more natural-sounding choice than 部分. But, as I said, I am not a native speaker.
 
時間に追われるのは、アメリカ人にとって日常生活の部分だと思います。:)

例えば「時間に追われて生活するのはアメリカ人にとってはごく当たり前のことだと思います」なんてどうでしょう?
😌
(いつのまにやら Big off topicになっちゃいましたが・・・)
 
Hi Glen and All,

Thanks for all the useful and supportive replies. Glen, I cut and pasted the aforementioned reading passage from the JLPT Study Page. I think it was taken from a 2004 or 2005 test. Thanks again!

Paul
 
Hi Mikawa,

Thank you for your post. Unfortunately I cannot read the sentence you posted since the text is too small for me to read.
 
新築でもまったくないわけではないですが、中古だとと くに、ガス、給湯、トイレ、風呂といった設備の老朽化 にともない、入居者から改善の申し入れが多くなってき ます。

How about this?👍
 
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