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Let's Hope This Replaces Kanji Tattoos

lanthas

 
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Could be worse:



This is "star girl" - she got the nickname from the Belgian national media a couple years ago. She claimed she only asked for three stars, then fell asleep while getting tattooed (yes, really) and woke up to find her face covered in the things. She then proceeded to demand that the tattoo artist pay the €3000 cost to have them lasered away again - which he did.
 

PaulTB

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She claimed she only asked for three stars
Ah, troll counting. 'One, two, many'
I love girls with freckles but I don't know what I would think about fake ones.
Would you know? Are fake freckles going to be the new fake boobs? Blokes sitting, slightly drunk, at the bar and arguing over who there has real freckles and how you can tell?
 

nice gaijin

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I wonder how they would look on this:

Beauty trends are stupid, people used to be teased for having freckles, or wearing glasses, etc etc. Do whatever you need to do to feel comfortable in your own skin, and forget about what other people think.
 

Uncle Frank

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s3.jpg s1.jpg s2.jpg Guess she didn't know spiders are the "in thing" this year.
 

WonkoTheSane

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Beauty trends are stupid, people used to be teased for having freckles, or wearing glasses, etc etc. Do whatever you need to do to feel comfortable in your own skin, and forget about what other people think.
I agree to a point. There is a young man who works at the convenience store down the street from my mother's house in the states who has tattoos all over his face and hands. I talked to him a bit and he seems to be a really nice guy, but he has dropped himself from contention for a ton of jobs with this choice. At a certain point balancing what makes one comfortable with what allows one to function in society becomes important.
 

nice gaijin

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Hmm, if someone is aware of the consequences of their choices regarding fashion or body modification and how they might be perceived, and still go through with it, then more power to them. If he wanted to be a server at a high class restaurant or work in a white-collar environment, he probably shouldn't get a face tattoo. If he doesn't care about what doors he closed with his tattoos, why should you?

At this point, if you were to say what you said in your last post to him, you are just judging him for the choice he made. It would be different if you were friends and he were to ask you for advice on whether he should get a face tattoo. We may say "I would never make the same choice," but otherwise, it's not really our business.

Saying things like that under the guise of concern for the consequences of their actions (which don't necessarily affect anyone else, unless we were to imagine that he supports a family and now has less earning power) is akin to those Japanese realtors that say "well, I'M not racist, but some people are, so we can't rent to foreigners." Not my strongest analogy, I know haha.
 

WonkoTheSane

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Hmm, if someone is aware of the consequences of their choices regarding fashion or body modification and how they might be perceived, and still go through with it, then more power to them. If he wanted to be a server at a high class restaurant or work in a white-collar environment, he probably shouldn't get a face tattoo. If he doesn't care about what doors he closed with his tattoos, why should you?

At this point, if you were to say what you said in your last post to him, you are just judging him for the choice he made. It would be different if you were friends and he were to ask you for advice on whether he should get a face tattoo. We may say "I would never make the same choice," but otherwise, it's not really our business.

Saying things like that under the guise of concern for the consequences of their actions (which don't necessarily affect anyone else, unless we were to imagine that he supports a family and now has less earning power) is akin to those Japanese realtors that say "well, I'M not racist, but some people are, so we can't rent to foreigners." Not my strongest analogy, I know haha.
Two points here.

First, the choices we make when we're young don't always take into account the things we might want to be able to do when we're older. I'm not saying I made a bunch of great choices at that age, I'm just lucky that the ones I made aren't all that outwardly visible. When one has a family to feed, or any number of other things happen that change one's life requirements, it's usually better to have options than not.

Second point.

I disagree entirely that it's not our business to judge choices people make. In fact, you did the exact same thing by judging it as a non-negative choice. This is how we as humans develop society and a shared social contract. By evaluating actions in our communities and deciding how we feel about those actions.

You say I made a judgment of him, but nowhere did I judge him as a human being for this choice. I merely pointed out that this choice may limit him, which is a judgment of this particular choice not him as a person. In fact, the only judgment I made of him as a person is that he seemed like a nice guy when I spoke with him. To say I expressed concern under a 'guise' says that you know the operation of my mind, which you do not.

Finally, it is entirely different to judge an individual person's actions vs. being a racist, and I frankly find it incredibly insulting and inappropriate that you would, in essence, call me a racist.
 
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Mike Cash

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Hmm, if someone is aware of the consequences of their choices regarding fashion or body modification and how they might be perceived, and still go through with it, then more power to them. If he wanted to be a server at a high class restaurant or work in a white-collar environment, he probably shouldn't get a face tattoo. If he doesn't care about what doors he closed with his tattoos, why should you?
Several years ago, many of the Japanese guys I work with got caught up in the front end of the rising trend for young Japanese people to get tattoos. For the most part, they limited their rebellion against societal norms to things easily covered up with even a short sleeve shirt.

One guy kind of got hooked on it and kept getting more and more of what I can only describe as 1950s jailhouse looking crap, to the point he was having to wear full sleeve black shirts even in the middle of summer. He knew things were going to end up with him having to quit our company because of the tattoos at some point, and he knew it before he started getting them.

There are several companies in my general area at which he could perform the same sort of work, and we are hardly in one of the "employed for life" occupations so job changing is not unusual (although it does get much harder to find a new position as one gets older). There is also a sort of "pecking order" as to how desirable as company is to work for, as regards pay, working conditions, etc. People who work for a company down the list don't tend to switch to a company up the list very often. What usually happens is that they cascade down a step at a time until they either disappear or they end up at or near the absolute bottom of the list.

Entirely without knowing, I lucked into a company at or near the top. I have had several former co-workers who for one reason or another went down the list in search of greener pastures and without exception they have all told me they wish they had stayed where they were. Tattoo Guy was in a good place, was a good guy, a good worker, and except for the ink explosion could have stayed as long as he wanted.

We are still in the same area and in the same line of work, so I run into him from time to time. It seems like just about every time I see him he has changed companies again and slid a bit further down the list.

you are just judging him for the choice he made
Why shouldn't he?

I get the impression that in the Urashima Taro-ish interval I've been entirely absent from the United States, right behind "racist" at number one is "judgmental" at number two on the list of absolutely unacceptable things to be. When did that happen? It seems now the only thing it is socially acceptable to be judgmental of is other people's being judgmental.

Everybody makes judgments about other people all the time. Anybody who claims they don't form judgments of others based on the other person's words or deeds is either entirely without personal principles of any sort, afraid to stand up for them, or a damned liar.

Pre-judging others based on appearances or assumptions is, of course, unfair and wrong.

I'm judgmental as hell and I don't care who knows it.
 

nice gaijin

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Two points here.

First, the choices we make when we're young don't always take into account the things we might want to be able to do when we're older. I'm not saying I made a bunch of great choices at that age, I'm just lucky that the ones I made aren't all that outwardly visible. When one has a family to feed, or any number of other things happen that change one's life requirements, it's usually better to have options than not.
Agreed. It's not to say that someone who gets facial tattoos won't regret them later!

I disagree entirely that it's not our business to judge choices people make. In fact, you did the exact same thing by judging it as a non-negative choice. This is how we as humans develop society and a shared social contract. By evaluating actions in our communities and deciding how we feel about those actions.

You say I made a judgment of him, but nowhere did I judge him as a human being for this choice. I merely pointed out that this choice may limit him, which is a judgment of this particular choice not him as a person. In fact, the only judgment I made of him as a person is that he seemed like a nice guy when I spoke with him. To say I expressed concern under a 'guise' says that you know the operation of my mind, which you do not.
Fair point, I apologize for insinuating you were being judgmental of him or his character. You did frame his choice by the negative consequences, but I didn't mean to conflate the two. There are cultures where body modification including facial tattoos are respected and even considered beautiful; our judgment of those decisions reflects more about ourselves and our cultural hang-ups than the person with the tattoos.

Finally, it is entirely different to judge an individual person's actions vs. being a racist, and I frankly find it incredibly insulting and inappropriate that you would, in essence, call me a racist.
Oh come on Wonko I didn't call you anything, even in essence. I was trying to draw a parallel between the logic of judging someone's decisions based on how other people might perceive them, and the way some people use unnamed "other people's" perception as an excuse to judge someone. It was a poor analogy so please call it that and don't put words in my mouth, I know you aren't racist (though I don't know the operation of your mind ;) )
 

nice gaijin

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Entirely without knowing, I lucked into a company at or near the top. I have had several former co-workers who for one reason or another went down the list in search of greener pastures and without exception they have all told me they wish they had stayed where they were. Tattoo Guy was in a good place, was a good guy, a good worker, and except for the ink explosion could have stayed as long as he wanted.

We are still in the same area and in the same line of work, so I run into him from time to time. It seems like just about every time I see him he has changed companies again and slid a bit further down the list.
That is interesting; since he wasn't a bad person/worker, would you say that his obsession with tattoos is causing his slide down the pecking order?

Why shouldn't he?... It seems now the only thing it is socially acceptable to be judgmental of is other people's being judgmental.

Everybody makes judgments about other people all the time. Anybody who claims they don't form judgments of others based on the other person's words or deeds is either entirely without personal principles of any sort, afraid to stand up for them, or a damned liar.

Pre-judging others based on appearances or assumptions is, of course, unfair and wrong.
The only thing we don't tolerate any more is intolerance! I googled "intolerance of intolerance" to find a funny image to post but now I'm sick of the word.

I'm judgmental as hell and I don't care who knows it.
Haha! as long as you're honest with yourself, right?
 

Mike Cash

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That is interesting; since he wasn't a bad person/worker, would you say that his obsession with tattoos is causing his slide down the pecking order?
It certainly precipitated it.

He just got too far out in front of the curve. I can remember when loose socks were scandalous and when 茶髪 was pretty much the equivalent of a face tattoo for limiting one's opportunities.

Of course, loose socks went on a sharp decline when people quit seeing them as rebellious and pretty much died when the succeeding generation found out it was something their mothers had done. How square can you get?

茶髪 got to the point that if you didn't do something to your hair people suspected you weren't taking care of yourself.

Tattoos are taking longer to gain traction.
 

WonkoTheSane

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Oh come on Wonko I didn't call you anything, even in essence. I was trying to draw a parallel between the logic of judging someone's decisions based on how other people might perceive them, and the way some people use unnamed "other people's" perception as an excuse to judge someone. It was a poor analogy so please call it that and don't put words in my mouth, I know you aren't racist (though I don't know the operation of your mind ;) )
You stated that what I did was akin to racism. Either stand by your assessment or apologize for it and say you were wrong to use that term to describe a similar act to what I was doing, but don't leave it hanging on me like signboard if you don't believe it.

If you believe it to be true, show your work. I am happy to debate whether bigotry is similar to judging actions. The first is intolerable, the second is how we can put murderers in jail.
 

nice gaijin

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I was talking about using other people's hypothetical prejudices as reasoning to voice concern for someone's appearance. My analogy was a bad choice, but I didn't call you a racist, nor did I call the realtor a racist. But you're right that it was a poor choice and I'm sorry for that.
 

WonkoTheSane

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I was talking about using other people's hypothetical prejudices as reasoning to voice concern for someone's appearance. My analogy was a bad choice, but I didn't call you a racist, nor did I call the realtor a racist. But you're right that it was a poor choice and I'm sorry for that.
Thank you very much, I appreciate it. I apologize for perhaps too strong of a reaction and certainly for misinterpreting your intent.
 
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