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Question Lesson 10 Question 19

Zizka

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(Moderator's Note: this thread is separated from Question - Lesson 9 & 10: The End | Japan Forum.)

upload_2018-7-29_16-12-4.png

upload_2018-7-29_16-12-26.png

First Sentence:
(1)の: attributive
(2)から:from...
(3)が: subject of the verb 来ます.

Second Sentence:
(4)も: also as in "I also write".
(5)へ/に: destination.

(6)を: direct object of 習った.
(7)から: from...
(8)に: indirect object of the verb.

(9)を: 「手紙」 is the direct object of 「書きます」.
Comments:
We'll likely discuss this one too. I'm happy with the first sentence but less so with the second one.
 

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Toritoribe

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#19-4
It depends on the answer to 8 whether も is acceptable or not.

5
Actually, シカゴ is not the destination the subject writes letters to. This phrase is connected to 日本語を習った横山先生.

7, 8
What is the function of 横山先生 to the main verb 書きます? "From" in the given English translation is "learned from the teacher", not "letters from her". The subject writes letters to her.
Hint: What is the translation of "Mrs. Yokoyama from whom I learned Japanese"? Or before that, what is "I learned Japanese from Mr. Yokoyama"?
 

Zizka

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Actually, シカゴ is not the destination the subject writes letters to. This phrase is connected to 日本語を習った横山先生.
The right answer is で according to the answer key. This would imply that the person learned Japanese in Chicago? But that's not mentioned anywhere in the translation...
What is the function of 横山先生 to the main verb 書きます?
『横山先生』is the indirect object of 書きます. So that's 『に』. I just checked and it's right.
As for the second answer, も for (8), I honestly still don't know, even with your tips. I looked up も again in my dictionary and found out:
a particle which indicates that a proposition about the preceding element X is also true when another similar proposition is true.
Say what now? This definition is the equivalent of the English "too".
Anyhow:
日本語を習った横山先生「に」「も」...
In this case, what's the preceding element. It's the part I colored, yes? The noun phrase. So does it mean in the sense that "I write letters to Miss Yokohama from which I learned Japanese too." (awkward wording).
upload_2018-7-29_16-12-26-png.27196

That's not mentioned in the translation. What is mentioned however is
"I also write letters..." I bet this is what the も is referring to here. But considering its position in the sentence, it doesn't make sense to me either.
 

Toritoribe

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The right answer is で according to the answer key. This would imply that the person learned Japanese in Chicago?
Yes, シカゴ is the location of the action.

But that's not mentioned anywhere in the translation...
That's just a mistake in the given translation.

Anyhow:
日本語を習った横山先生「に」「も」...
In this case, what's the preceding element. It's the part I colored, yes? The noun phrase. So does it mean in the sense that "I write letters to Miss Yokohama from which I learned Japanese too." (awkward wording).
に is associated with 書きます, not 習った, thus, も is associated with 書きます, too.

I write letters also to Mrs. Yokoyama. = I also write letters to Mrs. Yokoyama.

As for "Yokoyama from whom I learned Japanese too" you misinterpreted, も is put after を, and を is usually omitted in this case, so it's 日本語習った横山先生.


"Mrs. Yokoyama from whom I learned Japanese" is indeed 日本語を習った横山先生. How about the sentence "I learned Japanese from Mr. Yokoyama"? (I asked this question because this is a good chance you learn about modifying clause.)
 

Zizka

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日本語が横山先生から習った.
I'm really not sure however. I don't have a lot of experience translating sentences, I'm more used to trying to understand them.
 

Toritoribe

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It's 日本語横山先生から(or に also works fine)習った. 日本語 is the object of 習った also in this sentence, not only in the modifying clause.
Anyway, the point I want to explain is that the particle から(or に) is not used in the modifying clause.

わたしはシカゴで日本語を横山先生から/に習った。
I learned Japanese from Mrs. Yokoyama in Chicago.

わたしがシカゴで日本語を習った横山先生
Mrs. Yokoyama from whom I learned Japanese in Chicago
(が is used instead of は since は can't be used in a modifying clause.)

シカゴで日本語を横山先生から/に習ったわたし
I who learned Japanese from Mrs. Yokoyama in Chicago

わたしが日本語を横山先生から/に習ったシカゴ
Chicago where I learned Japanese from Mrs. Yokoyama

わたしがシカゴで横山先生から/に習った日本語
Japanese I learned from Mrs. Yokoyama in Chicago

As you can see, the particle attached to the modified noun, から/に for 横山先生, は/が for わたし, で for シカゴ, を for 日本語, respectively, are disappeared in each modifying clause. Thus, although "from" is written in the given English translation, as in "Mrs. Yokoyama from whom I learned Japanese", から(or に) is not used in the Japanese sentence. (Note that the に used there is the one for "write letters to Mrs. Yokoyama", not for "learned from".)

I think this is the questioner's intention or trick, checking whether learners are misled by "from" in the given translation or not.
 

Zizka

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I think this is the questioner's intention or trick, checking whether learners are misled by "from" in the given translation or not.
Well it certainly tricked me. This is still a bit hard for me to understand but I think this:
Thus, although "from" is written in the given English translation, as in "Mrs. Yokoyama from whom I learned Japanese", から(or に) is not used in the Japanese sentence.
Sums it up pretty well.
 
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