Korean residents in a fix

[thomas]

Korean residents caught between Japan, N Korea

The very day North Korean leader Kim Jong Il admitted the abductions to Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi, a Japanese woman in Aichi Prefecture accosted a Korean junior high school girl, tugging at her ethnic school uniform, said journalist Kang Song, adding that passersby intervened to stop the abuse.

Girls attending Korean schools can easily be identified as they usually wear uniforms that are a variation on chogori, a form of ethnic Korean clothing. Many of them have recently decided not to wear the uniform so as to avoid trouble. [...]

Regardless of whether they have become South Korean citizens or Chongryon members, many Korean residents in Japan see themselves trapped in a kind of societal no man's land, unable to enjoy the rights and duties of those considered outright Japanese, South Korean or North Korean.

"Personally, I have never felt protected by Japan, South Korea or North Korea," said O Kang Gyo, a South Korean resident who promotes the rights of zainichi in Osaka. "We have been cramped up in this little space while occasionally being intervened with by the three countries."

=> http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=1&id=244589

 

[AutoBot11]

living abroad isn't always that great ...

 

[thomas]

Welp, most of these Koreans were born in Japan. Many of them don't knbow a word in Korean. I assume they can consider Japan their home...

 

[AutoBot11]

ah ... that's the second generation, quite different

but what are the conditions to have the japanese nationality?

 

[thomas]

There are more than 600.000 Koreans living in Japan, most of them are second and third generation Koreans born in Japan. Some of them have adopted Japanese nationality. First generation Koreans who came to Japan between 1910 and 1945 usually kept their Korean nationality. I'm not sure about the number of people having a Japanese and a Korean parent though.

 

[ehhhhh!]

Korean residents

Originally posted by thomas
Welp, most of these Koreans were born in Japan. Many of them don't knbow a word in Korean. I assume they can consider Japan their home...

Most of those Korean kids go to Korean school, receiving "Minzoku Kyoiku" which is anti-Japan/U.S. education.
That's why koreans haven't been able to assimilate Japanese society.

Those korean schools display Kim Jong il portrait on the wall.
Recentry, So-ren(largest korean pressure group) anounced that they support North Korea to quit NPT.
ah ... that's the second generation, quite different

Older Koreans think having Japanese nationality is dirty.

 

[thomas]

Re: Korean residents

Originally posted by ehhhhh!
Most of those Korean kids go to Korean school, receiving "Minzoku Kyoiku" which is anti-Japan/U.S. education.
That's why koreans haven't been able to assimilate Japanese society.

Those korean schools display Kim Jong il portrait on the wall.
Recentry, So-ren(largest korean pressure group) anounced that they support North Korea to quit NPT.
ah ... that's the second generation, quite different

Older Koreans think having Japanese nationality is dirty.

I don't know the percentage of Korean schools that are pro-NK, but South or North - do you think it is required to "assimilate" in order to live in Japan? The term assimilation evokes bad memories of Japan's dark era of colonisation.

There's an excellent website on the topic, [ID=754]The Han World[/ID], maintained by Koreans and Japanese. I took the quote below from Yasunori Fukuoka's article entitled "Koreans in Japan: Past and Present". Mr. Fukuoka, who is of course Japanese, writes about Japan's post-WWII policy on Korean residents:

The Japanese government continued to create conditions which disadvantaged Koreans who wanted to maintain their ethnic identity. They continued to suppress Korean schools and Korean antagonism towards Japan continued to increase. In eff ect, the Japanese government executed an assimilation policy that promoted the d estruction of Korean ethnic identity altogether. It also restricted conditions by which Korean residents could willingly identify themselves with the Japanese. Moreover, the Japanese government discouraged Korean naturalization by establishing strict qualifications for applicants to obtain Japanese nationality. They demanded submission of numerous troublesome documents and conducted investigations and hearings which could have been considered harassment towards Koreans. All in all, the Japanese government adopted neither a consistent nor a wise assimilation policy at all.

=> HAN: "Koreans in Japan: Past and Present"

So even *if* they wanted to give up their Korean identity and "assimilate" to become streamlined J-citizens, they were restricted from doing so. Young Koreans residents are in a fix indeed:

It has been said that it is inevitable that Korean residents use Japanese na mes in order to avoid discrimination. However, the reason that Koreans in Japan use Japanese names can be further explained by a hypothetical process consisting of three steps which are described below. The first step is the enforcement of Japanese names on them during the colonial period. The second step is that Korea ns voluntarily used Japanese names to avoid discrimination, despite the fact that they recognized Korean names as being their real ones. The third step is that today's young Koreans in Japan are more accustomed to Japanese names than Korean ones, even though Japanese names were originally their passing name and Korean names were supposedly their real name. Of course, there are still some Japanese who are friendly only as long as a Korean resident uses his/her Japanese name. Relationships can turn sour quickly when a Korean starts using his/her Korean nam e. Nevertheless, more and more young Koreans in Japan feel unfamiliar with their Korean names, and have difficulty in recognizing Korean names as their real name even before they are faced with Japanese discrimination.

As for older Koreans who "think Japanese nationality is dirty": with all due respect, you can't really expect forced labourers and comfort women to feel too enthusiastic about their former oppressors, can you?

 

[ehhhhh!]

all right, i have tons to say.

Q<required to "assimilate" >
You know korean residents have been supporting N.Korean spies.
They helped kidnapping Japanese.
It is like U.S. having Al-qaeda inside.
I do not mean Koreans should become Japanese, i mean koreans should get over 60 years old matters.
And stop obeying kim jong il.

Maybe I should have said "get along" instead.
They don't get along anywhere.

窶｢ In Oakland, California, increasing Asian presence is seen as threatening to the African-American community, causing competition for housing, jobs and schooling. In addition, the new residents may not see their black neighbors in a positive light. Asian children might hear the threat, 窶廬f you're not good, I'm going to sell you to a black family" A Korean remarked, 窶弩e've never lived with other ethnic groups in Korea. We're taught to think that we're unique and pure.窶 (AsianWeek, 4/20/00)

窶｢ Long-time residents of the New Jersey town of Palisades Park complain that many Korean immigrants there make no effort to assimilate. Particularly upsetting is the disinterest of many Koreans to learn English and the lack of civic involvement. Koreans have become 30 percent of the town's population and 40 percent of the students. (The Record, Bergen, NJ, 8/24/98)

窶｢In Los Angeles then, as in Washington today, blacks complained that they did not feel respected by the Korean store owners who had become retail fixtures in many black neighborhoods. For their part, Koreans said they felt their actions were often misunderstood. Marcia Chu of the Black-Korean Alliance told me then that the group heard recurring complaints about Korean merchants. There were charges like this one a black woman angrily made to me: "They treat us like dogs. I don't know what's instilled in their minds, but we're human beings..........
"Some black customers in Los Angeles complained to me of feeling as if they were targets of surveillance when they entered a Korean-owned or -run business. "You go into a store to buy something and when they see a black, it looks like their alarm bells go off," one man said. "Their eyes follow you and they even walk behind you." Koreans countered that many grocers live with the daily fear of violent robbery and must always be on guard. But blacks, like this man, felt this was no excuse. "I work hard for my money," he said, "and I want the respect."(The Washington Post,10/ 31/00)

 

[ehhhhh!]

All of N.Koreans who escaped from N.Korea are protesting current establishment ,nevertheless only zainichi(korean residents) support that.
Zainichi is the largest financial supporter of Kim jong il.

 

[ehhhhh!]

Q<The Japanese government continued to create conditions which disadvantaged Koreans who wanted to maintain their ethnic identity. >
That is not true.
Why Fukuoka doesn't mention "tokubetsu eijyuken"?
Which only zainichi can have.(other foreigners not!)
Therefore,Zainichi can keep their korean passport and can live and work in Japan.
Why don't you blame S.Korea's "kimin seisaku"(dumping citizens policy"

 

[ehhhhh!]

Q<Young Koreans residents are in a fix indeed:>
Interesting quote from zainichi's posting.
５ちゃんねる error 3001

"Mindan(s.korean pressure group) is like cult.
Becoming Japanese is like getting out of Aum(sarin terror cult).
Then you said "go home"
I went back to S.Korea, I was ultra nationalist.
But I couldn't stand there even 2 years.
Harrasment by Koreans were much worse than Japanese.
Harrasement I received when I left Zainichi was easy.
Now I am a Japanese, I was moved when I went to vote first time."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When zainichi leave zainichi (becoming Japanese) , they are usually harrased by other zainichi.

 

[ehhhhh!]

Q< with all due respect, you can't really expect forced labourers and comfort women to feel too enthusiastic about their former oppressors, can you?>

Please specify how much percent of zainichi were forced labourer or comfort women?
Acording to "apoji kikasete anokorowo"(published by zainichi's organization 1988) Most of first generation of zainichi were none of those, they came to Japan to find job, a lot of them were stowaways.
At the time, there was big economic difference between Japan and Korea like now.
サービス終了のお知らせ

Most of forced labourers were sent to home right after ww2 by GHQ's kikoku jigyo.
Koreans who decided to stay in Japan are the zainichi's first generation.
Of course, there were Korean residents before ww2,they were clearly not forced labourers.
Forced labour (choyo) started 1944, until then, Japanese gov actually restrainted Koreans to enter Japan.
That's why there were so many atowaways.

 

[thomas]

Originally posted by ehhhhh!
You know korean residents have been supporting N.Korean spies.
They helped kidnapping Japanese.
It is like U.S. having Al-qaeda inside.
I do not mean Koreans should become Japanese, i mean koreans should get over 60 years old matters. And stop obeying kim jong il.

Forgive me, but doesn't that sound a bit like a generalisation? A few Koreans may have indeed helped NK agents to stage the abductions, but does that make all Korean residents in Japan accomplices? I seriously doubt that all of them support Kim Jong-Il. Comparing Korean residents to potential terrorists is daring.

Why Fukuoka doesn't mention "tokubetsu eijyuken"?
Which only zainichi can have.(other foreigners not!)
Therefore,Zainichi can keep their korean passport and can live and work in Japan. Why don't you blame S. Korea's "kimin seisaku" (dumping citizens policy"

Don't forget that Korea was colonised by Japan. Koreans came for work and were forced to assimilate. From my point of view it is only fair that their special status is legally acknowledged. Furthermore, the issue is not only about rights, but also about attitude and mutual respect, things that can't be changed by any law or regulation. I don't know anything about "kimin seisaku", but I'd be grateful if you explained.

Most of forced labourers were sent to home right after ww2 by GHQ's kikoku jigyo.
Koreans who decided to stay in Japan are the zainichi's first generation.
Of course, there were Korean residents before ww2,they were clearly not forced labourers.
Forced labour (choyo) started 1944, until then, Japanese gov actually restrainted Koreans to enter Japan.
That's why there were so many atowaways.

Let me rephrase my last sentence: how can you assume that any Korean that lived in Japan throughout Japan's imperialist era - no matter for which reason and how they came - would be interested to acquire the nationality of a country that would never fully accept them? A country that would always treat them as second class, no matter how much they adapt by neglecting their roots?

Older Koreans think having Japanese nationality is dirty.

In your opinion, why is that so?

 

[ehhhhh!]

Originally posted by thomas
Forgive me, but doesn't that sound a bit like a generalisation?

Generaly, zainichi hate Japan and S.Korea both.

A few Koreans may have indeed helped NK agents to stage the abductions, but does that make all Korean residents in Japan accomplices? I seriously doubt that all of them support Kim Jong-Il. Comparing Korean residents to potential terrorists is daring.

Of course, I didn't say all of them did it.
Acording to Koan-cho's anouoncement, there are at least 5000 zainichi NK spy helpers network.
Hara Tadaaki case is typical, 1980 July, he was working at chinese restaurant "Hokairo"(Osaka Tsuruhashi) operated by zainichi Lee Sam Jung, Lee led Hara to the beach in Miyazaki pref and gave him over to Shin Guan Soo(NK spy, later arrested in SK).
Lee was leader of the Chamber of Osaka Korean Commerce and Industry.
Later Shin entered Japan with using Hara's ID.
Hokairo may still open today.
This is just one case.
http://popup.tok2.com/home/zundou/Sizen/Zizi/hibi0209/hibi020930.htm
http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~nisichan/101/47723388671875.html
http://geojwww02.geocities.co.jp/WallStreet-Euro/1880/people_2.html


This is today's news.
Gov may take strict measures against So-ren.
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20030122-00000948-jij-pol

 

[ehhhhh!]

ex-Zainichi revealed horror of So-ren.
"My wife and I received Japanese nationality 2 years ago.
Because I know only Japan, I speak only Japanese.
The procedure wasn't difficult. It can be done in a year.
I think if they don't want to go back to korea,
they should do Kika (naturalization).
We were born and raised in Japan,we should love Japan.
Past is past, I really apreciate that I was born and raised in Japan."
"When we were getting naturalized, we were harrased by So-ren.
They said "please stay in So-ren for our motherland."
But what we actually do for motherland are disturbing activities against Japanese school textbook,Yasukuni and donation.
So-ren members oftenly came to our house to threat.
We were almost in neurosis, then we asked for help to police.
Police officers were very kind and helpful.
If you were educated in Korean school, you know they teach kids Japanese police = evil.
That was not true.
There are many zainichi who can't leave So-ren because of threat.
But don't worry, So-ren won't chase you more than 2 years."

You can read more at
元在日氏の証言 〜朝鮮総聯について〜


Hey Thomas, why don't you talk to zainichi?
５ちゃんねる error 3001

 

[ehhhhh!]

<<Korean residents in a fix>>
The problem is zainichi are controled by So-ren, Mindan with horror.
What do you think?

And as common knowlidge, you know NK's drug business right?
NK >>producer
Zainichi(So-ren)>>Wholesale
Yakuza>>Retailer

 

[thomas]

Thanks, you posted a lot of really interesting links. It's a lot to skim over, lol.

Chosen Soren is listed at FAS and GlobalSecutity.org

=> http://www.fas.org/irp/world/dprk/chosen_soren/

=> General Association of Korean Residents in Japan (Chosen Soren) - North Korean

Hey Thomas, why don't you talk to zainichi?
５ちゃんねる error 3001

I wish I could.

I understand the general concern about Chosen Soren, but isn't it too easy to reduce the Japanese-Korean dialogue to the "North Korean menace"?

 

[ehhhhh!]

Don't forget that Korea was colonised by Japan.

Taiwan was also. Why Taiwanese don't demand like Koreans? Why?
What do you think of colonialism?
I don't know your nationality, but Thomas is weatern name so...
Maybe your country had(has) colonies.

Koreans came for work and were forced to assimilate.

You mean "Soshi Kaimei"?
Soshi Kaimei didn't meant bullying Koreans.
Having Japanese name is useful for them in Japanese society.
That is why so many Korean residents still use Japanese name.
Nationalistic Koreans use Korean name.

One thing, You are misunderstanding is So-shi Kaimei was not forced.
Please find 1940.2.11 gov notification about Koreans.
Koreans were given a choice to have Japanese name.
Same notification was sent to Taiwan, then only 2% of Taiwanese changed their name to Japanese.
6 monthes after the notification, 79% of Koreans changed their name.
If it was forced, it supposed to be 100%.
Obviously, it wasn't forced.

 

[ehhhhh!]

Originally posted by thomas
From my point of view it is only fair that their special status is legally acknowledged. Furthermore, the issue is not only about rights, but also about attitude and mutual respect, things that can't be changed by any law or regulation.

Recent Korean Bank incident (Cho Gin Jiken) revealed that zainichi who have account in Korean banks were avoiding paying income tax.
Demanding rights, not paying tax. that is why Japanese are pissed.
And even Japanese tax money <HUGE AMOUNT!13600,0000,0000yen> is pouring into those bankrupted korean banks.
Why bankrupted? because all the money were shipped to Kim jong il!!
http://chogin.parfait.ne.jp/
サービス終了のお知らせ <-Flash movie

They wanna be respected? Too late.
Not only bank incident, drug dealing, prostitution,robbery,theft.

I don't know anything about "kimin seisaku", but I'd be grateful if you explained.

I don't know what to say in English.
Ki means dump, trash, throw away.
Min means citizen, people
Seisaku means policy.

1951, Japanese gov wanted to send poor Koreans to their home country SK because of financial reason(Japan was broke at the time).
But SK abandoned those koreans.
Now, zainichi(SK) can have SK passport but SK society do not accept zainichi.
Koreans see zainichi as betrayer or something so zainichi are discriminated there.
In NK, it is more serious.
Most of Japanese and ex-zainichi are sent to prison, toutured and excuted.
I said alot of zainichi hate Korea, because of those reason.






:smoke:

 

[ehhhhh!]

Originally posted by thomas
how can you assume that any Korean that lived in Japan throughout Japan's imperialist era - no matter for which reason and how they came - would be interested to acquire the nationality of a country that would never fully accept them? A country that would always treat them as second class, no matter how much they adapt by neglecting their roots?

Sorry, I don get what you mean.
English is my 2nd language, I am writing with a dictionary in my hand.
Do you mean Japan don't recognize zainichi's nationality??
Japan allow them to keep their nationality.
Just don't have suffrage.
I have green card but I don't have suffrage in U.S.
But I think that is right.
Koreans who has GC in U.S. do not demand suffrage unlike zainichi though.

In your opinion, why is that so?

That is not my opinion.
I surf Korea related site all the time, and I see such sayings sometimes.
Having Japanese nationality is dirty or shame whatever....
Especially, when Japanese woman marry to Korean man, Korean family force her to get korean nationality.
"My son's wife is Choppari!(discrimination word, means Japanese) What a shame!!"
I have talked to a Korean woman who has American husband.
She said she and her children were getting terrible harrasement in SK.


BTW, watching Korean site is pretty fun.
Their racism is almost comedy.
For example, " Koreans are the Ancesters of English People"
http://www.ancientart.pe.kr/culture/sanggo.htm