- Admin
- #1
- Joined
- 14 Mar 2002
- Messages
- 12,741
- Reaction score
- 4,553
Reported by BBC News, 29 June 2002 (no, it's not hooligan-related):
Japan's fear of Brazilians
Japan's fear of Brazilians
Welcome to Japan Reference (JREF) - the community for all Things Japanese.
Join Today! It is fast, simple, and FREE!
Japan's fear of Brazilians
- Thread starter thomas
- Start date
Maciamo
先輩
- Joined
- 17 Jul 2002
- Messages
- 3,333
- Reaction score
- 116
That may have been a good thing (politically) that Brazil won this World Cup in Japan.
The harder to understand is why Japanese people fear so much people of Japanese descent such as the ones coming back to their ancestors country after emmigratig to South America after WWII. It seems Japanese are especially racist against their own kinds and people who look like them (ie Koreans, Chinese...).
Racism against Westerners is much less developped. Often it's the opposite; there is a kind of fascination (judging by the popularity of David Beckham or Brad Pitt among Japanese females, from teenagers to grandmothers).
Once more, Westerners are more likely to be discriminated if they are from Asian origins and therefore be mistaken for Koreans or Chinese (or Japanese-Americans).
Do Japanese people believe that Asians (including themselves) are inferiors to "white" people (a term I don't like as Japanese are as white as a Northern European) ? Do they fear more to be cheatedor robbed by an Asian than someone of European descent if they weren't born an educated in Japan ? Even Japanese nationals who have spent too many years abroad face discrimination when they come back. They are not "true Japanese" anymore. They have been contaminated by "foreign ideas". I can only understand it as if Japanese people can only live harmoniously if they stick to the very rigid rules imposed by their society/education. They distrust their own kinds if they have not been conditioned to obey and respect the system. That's why Brazilian-Japanese and other "returnees" are having a tough time.
Do Japanese people have a complex ? Manyof them (girls usually) have told me about this. They feel its a pride to have naturally blue eyes or blond hair (while I don't care, my wife is Japanese, so). They have a fascination for Westerners and feel openly inferior. It's not new that Japan has a inferiority complex many have tried to change with theories such as the "nihonjinron" or inumerable books about Japan as opposed to the rest of the world.
The harder to understand is why Japanese people fear so much people of Japanese descent such as the ones coming back to their ancestors country after emmigratig to South America after WWII. It seems Japanese are especially racist against their own kinds and people who look like them (ie Koreans, Chinese...).
Racism against Westerners is much less developped. Often it's the opposite; there is a kind of fascination (judging by the popularity of David Beckham or Brad Pitt among Japanese females, from teenagers to grandmothers).
Once more, Westerners are more likely to be discriminated if they are from Asian origins and therefore be mistaken for Koreans or Chinese (or Japanese-Americans).
Do Japanese people believe that Asians (including themselves) are inferiors to "white" people (a term I don't like as Japanese are as white as a Northern European) ? Do they fear more to be cheatedor robbed by an Asian than someone of European descent if they weren't born an educated in Japan ? Even Japanese nationals who have spent too many years abroad face discrimination when they come back. They are not "true Japanese" anymore. They have been contaminated by "foreign ideas". I can only understand it as if Japanese people can only live harmoniously if they stick to the very rigid rules imposed by their society/education. They distrust their own kinds if they have not been conditioned to obey and respect the system. That's why Brazilian-Japanese and other "returnees" are having a tough time.
Do Japanese people have a complex ? Manyof them (girls usually) have told me about this. They feel its a pride to have naturally blue eyes or blond hair (while I don't care, my wife is Japanese, so). They have a fascination for Westerners and feel openly inferior. It's not new that Japan has a inferiority complex many have tried to change with theories such as the "nihonjinron" or inumerable books about Japan as opposed to the rest of the world.
moyashi
後輩
- Joined
- 15 Apr 2002
- Messages
- 1,571
- Reaction score
- 17
hmmm here you go. Straight up discrimination of Japanese by Japanese.
Especially in the Kansai area is a heavy population of Burakumin (untouchables) also degradingly referred to as eta, yottsu (4 legs, animal killers).
This class of people were once the butchers, geta makers and tanners of Japan. They were caught in their social class when the Tokugawa government enforced the non-social movenment act.
During this period you had a caste like system.
Samurai
Farmers
Artians
Merchants
................ (erased class from socitey .... the poor burakumin)
Even today, what their ancestors did is held against them. Why? What did they do? They killed animals which is a cardinal sin in Buddhism aparently. Who cares today? Aparently many. Hokkaido is the land of the bandito therefore the word burakumin is barely known.
Another case of J to J discrimination is against the surviviors of the A-bombs. lol ... they glow in the dark and carry defective dna genes .... Well, I was left to guess the reason for those poor folk.
White man is the top of the social ladder. Some one more informed about China might be able to explain all this but ... it seems that China influenced this reasoning.
I heard that in China at one time those of lighter color were of higher social ranking. hey, "red necks" and "wet backs" have the similar origins. If you work the field you get brown / red. If you stay in the palace you stay ivory white.
So, combining that bit of Chinese knowledge with Japan borrowing a quite deal from China centuries back, you can possibly conclude that "white" folks have a higher standing.
But why today? I guess if you live with people of the same type for most of your life and run across somebody different some people get interested. Ever hear of "yellow fever" or in Japanese [ori-kichi] "oriental crazy" .... those of us with Asian spouse will at one time or another have those names put upon them.
Also, come on ... Brad Pitt, Beckham, Back Street Boys, .... I'd say that sex appeal has something to do here.
And alas, the knight in shinning armor riding a white stalion. Hey, some girls feel that foreginors are their ticket to except boredom.
I guess that's similar to as running off to Hollywood.
Prefering White over Asian spouses seems simple enough. Why find something that can be found at home.
And finally, hehe.... White and Black men have larger appendages while Japanese woman too resent their lemon pads. aka ... shower envy
@brazilians .... sorry for the jump here.
If Japan born Chinese and Korean can't be Japanese then how can somebody from outside of Japan be Japanese unless you're President Fujimori.
Especially in the Kansai area is a heavy population of Burakumin (untouchables) also degradingly referred to as eta, yottsu (4 legs, animal killers).
This class of people were once the butchers, geta makers and tanners of Japan. They were caught in their social class when the Tokugawa government enforced the non-social movenment act.
During this period you had a caste like system.
Samurai
Farmers
Artians
Merchants
................ (erased class from socitey .... the poor burakumin)
Even today, what their ancestors did is held against them. Why? What did they do? They killed animals which is a cardinal sin in Buddhism aparently. Who cares today? Aparently many. Hokkaido is the land of the bandito therefore the word burakumin is barely known.
Another case of J to J discrimination is against the surviviors of the A-bombs. lol ... they glow in the dark and carry defective dna genes .... Well, I was left to guess the reason for those poor folk.
White man is the top of the social ladder. Some one more informed about China might be able to explain all this but ... it seems that China influenced this reasoning.
I heard that in China at one time those of lighter color were of higher social ranking. hey, "red necks" and "wet backs" have the similar origins. If you work the field you get brown / red. If you stay in the palace you stay ivory white.
So, combining that bit of Chinese knowledge with Japan borrowing a quite deal from China centuries back, you can possibly conclude that "white" folks have a higher standing.
But why today? I guess if you live with people of the same type for most of your life and run across somebody different some people get interested. Ever hear of "yellow fever" or in Japanese [ori-kichi] "oriental crazy" .... those of us with Asian spouse will at one time or another have those names put upon them.
Also, come on ... Brad Pitt, Beckham, Back Street Boys, .... I'd say that sex appeal has something to do here.
And alas, the knight in shinning armor riding a white stalion. Hey, some girls feel that foreginors are their ticket to except boredom.
I guess that's similar to as running off to Hollywood.
Prefering White over Asian spouses seems simple enough. Why find something that can be found at home.
And finally, hehe.... White and Black men have larger appendages while Japanese woman too resent their lemon pads. aka ... shower envy
@brazilians .... sorry for the jump here.
If Japan born Chinese and Korean can't be Japanese then how can somebody from outside of Japan be Japanese unless you're President Fujimori.
shintemaster
先輩
- Joined
- 13 May 2002
- Messages
- 42
- Reaction score
- 0
Some interesting stuff in that article. One thing that stuck out for me was Mr Lee's comments about Korean/Japanese intermarriage rates with Japanese(!) people. I do think there is another side to this in the sense that those of Korean descent who choose NOT to marry into Japanese families may not be as accepted as they would like...
Janebond136
後輩
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2002
- Messages
- 15
- Reaction score
- 0
what do you mean " wet backs" ?
moyashi
後輩
- Joined
- 15 Apr 2002
- Messages
- 1,571
- Reaction score
- 17
"wet backs" for me is a deragotory term that I don't like that is normally associated with the poor souls who labor in the hot sun on farmers in California and such. Normally, referring to people of Mexican heritage.
Their labor causes sweat. Therefore, a back made wet by sweat.
Their labor causes sweat. Therefore, a back made wet by sweat.
- Thread starter
- Admin
- #7
- Joined
- 14 Mar 2002
- Messages
- 12,741
- Reaction score
- 4,553
An innocent European asks: is it for the same reason that rednecks are referred to as "rednecks"?
moyashi
後輩
- Joined
- 15 Apr 2002
- Messages
- 1,571
- Reaction score
- 17
hehe, deduction should've worked. 
Just like a "wet back" comes from working in the sun and sweating. You get a "red" errr actually a suntan by working in the fields in the sun.
American terminology seems creative but it really isn't actually.
Just like a "wet back" comes from working in the sun and sweating. You get a "red" errr actually a suntan by working in the fields in the sun.
American terminology seems creative but it really isn't actually.
shao
後輩
- Joined
- 4 Dec 2002
- Messages
- 25
- Reaction score
- 0
"redneck" and "wet back" are american terms.
the word, redneck, refers to many southern american(USA) people since they got red around their neck fron sun burning.
the word, wet back, is um... i heard it from somewhere... it refers to mexican people.
the word, redneck, refers to many southern american(USA) people since they got red around their neck fron sun burning.
the word, wet back, is um... i heard it from somewhere... it refers to mexican people.
Iron Chef
Villain
- Joined
- 26 Feb 2003
- Messages
- 2,284
- Reaction score
- 78
"the word, redneck, refers to many southern american(USA) people"
It's also what I call my neighbors. 8-p Seriously though, most Americans who use the term "redneck" employ it in a similar manner akin to "hillbilly", "country bumpkin", "cracker", or perhaps similar to "inakamono", the Japanese term used to describe country people (not in a flattering way). It is also sometimes synonomous with "white trash" or "trailer park trash" in some instances.
Generally speaking, redneck is nowhere near as inflammatory as wetback for most people (at least here in the U.S.) and is often portrayed in humorous situations. The comedian Jeff Foxworthy (a self-admitted redneck) whose entire act revolves around the "You might be a redneck if..." theme (ex. You might be a redneck if you have five or more cars in your driveway but only one of them actually starts...), to "Da Yoopers" (a semi-folk band from Michigan's upper peninsula famous for their renditon of "Grandma got run over by a reindeer" among other anthems about eating spam, swishing beer and playing cards during deer camp).
Even Hollywood has taken up the banner so to speak from the once popular television show, "The Beverly Hillbillies" and their benign portrayal, to the sadistic rednecks depicted in the film "Deliverance." Anyways, just wanted to clear that up, heh.
It's also what I call my neighbors. 8-p Seriously though, most Americans who use the term "redneck" employ it in a similar manner akin to "hillbilly", "country bumpkin", "cracker", or perhaps similar to "inakamono", the Japanese term used to describe country people (not in a flattering way). It is also sometimes synonomous with "white trash" or "trailer park trash" in some instances.
Generally speaking, redneck is nowhere near as inflammatory as wetback for most people (at least here in the U.S.) and is often portrayed in humorous situations. The comedian Jeff Foxworthy (a self-admitted redneck) whose entire act revolves around the "You might be a redneck if..." theme (ex. You might be a redneck if you have five or more cars in your driveway but only one of them actually starts...), to "Da Yoopers" (a semi-folk band from Michigan's upper peninsula famous for their renditon of "Grandma got run over by a reindeer" among other anthems about eating spam, swishing beer and playing cards during deer camp).
Even Hollywood has taken up the banner so to speak from the once popular television show, "The Beverly Hillbillies" and their benign portrayal, to the sadistic rednecks depicted in the film "Deliverance." Anyways, just wanted to clear that up, heh.
shao
後輩
- Joined
- 4 Dec 2002
- Messages
- 25
- Reaction score
- 0
aah. you explained a lot. thank you
GaijinGirl
後輩
- Joined
- 15 May 2003
- Messages
- 31
- Reaction score
- 0
Actually, I believe the term "wetback" was coined in Texas and refers to newly arrived Latino illegal immigrants. The "wet" part of the racial slur derives from the fact that fording the Rio Grande river is a common way to sneak across the border.
It is HIGHLY OFFENSIVE. Anyone who is learning English and reading this thread should know that it is VERY RUDE to refer to someone in this way, and in the U.S., you may be sued for addressing someone with the word.
The word "redneck" is interesting because it was originally used to mock poor white laborers in the rural South. Now the usage has evolved to refer to (usually) white people who seem ignorant, conservative, or narrow-minded. In other words, it no longer refers necessarily to class or location, but to ideology*, though it is STILL AN INSULT.
*Though someone will certainly disagree, I personally characterize that ideology as the 4 C's: Conservative-Christian-Capitalist/Consumer. *coughs* Dubya *coughs*
It is HIGHLY OFFENSIVE. Anyone who is learning English and reading this thread should know that it is VERY RUDE to refer to someone in this way, and in the U.S., you may be sued for addressing someone with the word.
The word "redneck" is interesting because it was originally used to mock poor white laborers in the rural South. Now the usage has evolved to refer to (usually) white people who seem ignorant, conservative, or narrow-minded. In other words, it no longer refers necessarily to class or location, but to ideology*, though it is STILL AN INSULT.
*Though someone will certainly disagree, I personally characterize that ideology as the 4 C's: Conservative-Christian-Capitalist/Consumer. *coughs* Dubya *coughs*
Maciamo
先輩
- Joined
- 17 Jul 2002
- Messages
- 3,333
- Reaction score
- 116
Is pres. George Dubya a redneck ?
GaijinGirl
後輩
- Joined
- 15 May 2003
- Messages
- 31
- Reaction score
- 0
If you're a progressive leftist, you may be inclined to view him as such. ;P
Maciamo
先輩
- Joined
- 17 Jul 2002
- Messages
- 3,333
- Reaction score
- 116
Progressive surely. Leftist, it depends on one's country and point of view. In Europe both liberals and conservative are rightist, but conservative tend to be more centre than right, while liberals are the clear right. Socialist are the left. In the States, Democrats are center-right, Republicans (far)right, and I was told by some Americans than Liberals were seen as leftists. I am more of a Liberal (with some socialist conceptions of health and education, like all Europeans), but I consider it to be on the right, not the left. Complex isn't it ?
GaijinGirl
後輩
- Joined
- 15 May 2003
- Messages
- 31
- Reaction score
- 0
Complex indeed.
Heh, what I meant was that I (and certainly many others) think of GWB as a redneck, mostly because of anger at him and his "administration."
Heh, what I meant was that I (and certainly many others) think of GWB as a redneck, mostly because of anger at him and his "administration."
mieboy
先輩
- Joined
- 16 Aug 2003
- Messages
- 38
- Reaction score
- 3
mieboy
先輩
- Joined
- 16 Aug 2003
- Messages
- 38
- Reaction score
- 3
I LOVE BRAZIL!!!
Well.I'm Brazilian, Japanese descent, Third generation... I've been living in Japan for about 3 years...Since then I never suffered any kind of racism here in Japan...Well, My Japanese is not that perfect...And when I talk they can know that I'm a foreigner. But when i'm hanging out with my Brazilians friends there are always Japaneses staring and pointing to me...But when I'm with my American,Australian friends...Then it's different...It's feels so sad!!!But this Generation must change...I'm hope so.....
P.S. In Brazil there are Chineses, Koreans and Japaneses Descents...And they dont like to "mix up", That means a Korean descent must hang out just with another Korean descentfriends....etc.....I dont know what about others countries. Are there that kind of discrimination between descents too?But I think from the fourth generation all this "things" will be ended.......I LOVE BRAZIL
Well.I'm Brazilian, Japanese descent, Third generation... I've been living in Japan for about 3 years...Since then I never suffered any kind of racism here in Japan...Well, My Japanese is not that perfect...And when I talk they can know that I'm a foreigner. But when i'm hanging out with my Brazilians friends there are always Japaneses staring and pointing to me...But when I'm with my American,Australian friends...Then it's different...It's feels so sad!!!But this Generation must change...I'm hope so.....
P.S. In Brazil there are Chineses, Koreans and Japaneses Descents...And they dont like to "mix up", That means a Korean descent must hang out just with another Korean descentfriends....etc.....I dont know what about others countries. Are there that kind of discrimination between descents too?But I think from the fourth generation all this "things" will be ended.......I LOVE BRAZIL
itshokenme
Registered
- Joined
- 12 Sep 2003
- Messages
- 3
- Reaction score
- 0
Re: I LOVE BRAZIL!!!
Well, it is true that each ethnic group tends to stay in their own community. The notion of community was originally formed to accomodate, what was back then, the 1st generation immigrants' desire to conduct decent social life who felt they were left out from the main stream society due to a language, cultural, and racial barrier. Therefore, it explains why Japanese are hanging out with only Japanese and Koreans etc. But I don't know about Brazil, but here in U.S, it is moving in a slow pace but becoming more and more pointless to talk about which community I belong as more inter-racial marriges are taking place. Well, my wife is Japanese for that matter. Before I go any further, let me introduce myself briefly so you will have a better idea about where I am coming from. I am, what people call, 1.5 generation Korean-American. 1.5 simply means people who were born in their native county but moved here as young age (my definition of young age is between 10-15, although I know other people might disagree) thus able to speak both language and have relatively balanced cultural background of both countries. Yeah! enough about me.
Well, I can only speak from my own experiences. I see Koreans, hanging out with Japanese, Chinese......etc. I know a couple of friends who were married to Chinese women and this guy I know was married to French woman and one of my female friend is married to a white guy.....etc. I mean it really is not that big of a news to talk about it. It's kind of surprizing to hear even 2nd and 3rd generations in Brazil tend to hang out only within their own ethnic group. I mean we still have the communities here, too but as 2nd and 3rd generation Korean-American are becoming the community's main driving force, the community is becoming more inclusive to other groups since the language barrier no longer exists. Don't get me wrong. It still is Korean community but I'm so sure it will be stay that way for next 50 years. And I think it's a good thing. We're all Americans. So be it...
Well, it is true that each ethnic group tends to stay in their own community. The notion of community was originally formed to accomodate, what was back then, the 1st generation immigrants' desire to conduct decent social life who felt they were left out from the main stream society due to a language, cultural, and racial barrier. Therefore, it explains why Japanese are hanging out with only Japanese and Koreans etc. But I don't know about Brazil, but here in U.S, it is moving in a slow pace but becoming more and more pointless to talk about which community I belong as more inter-racial marriges are taking place. Well, my wife is Japanese for that matter. Before I go any further, let me introduce myself briefly so you will have a better idea about where I am coming from. I am, what people call, 1.5 generation Korean-American. 1.5 simply means people who were born in their native county but moved here as young age (my definition of young age is between 10-15, although I know other people might disagree) thus able to speak both language and have relatively balanced cultural background of both countries. Yeah! enough about me.
Well, I can only speak from my own experiences. I see Koreans, hanging out with Japanese, Chinese......etc. I know a couple of friends who were married to Chinese women and this guy I know was married to French woman and one of my female friend is married to a white guy.....etc. I mean it really is not that big of a news to talk about it. It's kind of surprizing to hear even 2nd and 3rd generations in Brazil tend to hang out only within their own ethnic group. I mean we still have the communities here, too but as 2nd and 3rd generation Korean-American are becoming the community's main driving force, the community is becoming more inclusive to other groups since the language barrier no longer exists. Don't get me wrong. It still is Korean community but I'm so sure it will be stay that way for next 50 years. And I think it's a good thing. We're all Americans. So be it...
itshokenme
Registered
- Joined
- 12 Sep 2003
- Messages
- 3
- Reaction score
- 0
<Correction>
I'm NOT so sure it will be stay that way for next 50 years. And I think it's a good thing. We're all Americans. So be it...
Sorry!
I'm NOT so sure it will be stay that way for next 50 years. And I think it's a good thing. We're all Americans. So be it...
Sorry!
The anwser is this Japan is in love with the world and the world is in love with Japan.
And I am in love with Sushi and
The only other thing that I have seen is that Barzilian Jujitsu is seen as better than traditional Japanese Jujitsu because it is more of a ground fighting style.
What do you think?
And I am in love with Sushi and
The only other thing that I have seen is that Barzilian Jujitsu is seen as better than traditional Japanese Jujitsu because it is more of a ground fighting style.
What do you think?
M
Mr. Just-A-Guy
Guest
Maciamo said:
It may be this. Believe it or not, that’s what happens in my case. I kinda sometimes have some anger of my own people, sometimes even by race reasons (you know, latin, 'orange' skin, like ME). I have this really stupid thing in my head, that I can’t take it off. I grew totally influentiated culuturally by Americans, and I kinda sometimes feel like inferior to 'white'. Especially when I see one. For example, in the city I’m living now, an American couple, which have a son (I think he has about 15 or 16 years) moved to live 5 years here. Their son is really popular here, especially with the girls. An example of how 'white' are well seen, received and treated, not just here or Japan, but in many places in which there is kind of 'American influence' (where people are influentiated by American culture)???
Last edited by a moderator:
kjelli
後輩
- Joined
- 8 Nov 2004
- Messages
- 8
- Reaction score
- 0
well i dont know much about japan i have only bean there for 7 days but i feelt respected and when people steard at me i smiled at them and most of them smiled back or turnd thair face so we couldnt get contact and when i sayd i where mixed race of swedish and brazilian thay seemd posetive and did not throw me out of enny stores. i where in hamatsu i think its the name of the city i have cusins and 3 days in tokyo and i did not find tokyo.
