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Japanese wonderland

JoelBM

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Sad to see that as lot of guys come on here with the idea that japan is this wonderland they see in movies and anime. Worst part about it, because of them, everyone else starts assuming we are all thinking the same way. News flash buddy, I was born in another country (still US territory) and understand that things aren't close to fun and games. I hate being stereotyped into the Category of these guys. I work hard and learn even harder unlike most. I think realistically and logically with the hope of fun in between. So why is it, some of you guys treat the ones really trying to build a life in Japan like we are some naive individuals with a fairy tale in our minds?
Just a thought
 

WonkoTheSane

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The vast majority are naive individuals with a fairy tale. The veterans here (not me, I'm a newbie, only been on the forum since 2012, IIRC) have watched countless people come and go from the forum with dreams and no real willingness to follow those dreams or ability to modify them to conform to possibility. You can't expect them not to be a bit jaded.

For your case, I thought it was made pretty clear in your thread how to go about getting what you want. People even stated that your wishes were more plausible than some other drive by posters. You even had someone who does exactly what you want to do give you some advice.

If it wasn't clear enough:

1. Get JLPT N1
2. Get a bachelors degree
3. Get a teaching job in Japan
4. Get PR or a spousal visa
5. Get a driving job

I'm no expert, but I'd say it's probably about a 10 year plan. Depending on how the education you have transfers, it might be as few as two or three years before you're in Japan in the capacity of an English teacher.
 

JoelBM

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Thank you :D I can definitely understand why the treatment is being brought about to newcomers like myself but I choose not to be treated as such. So in the long run, a teaching career is the best way of going about it? 10 years seems like a long shot but if there's the possibility of sooner is there any specific way of going at it? Know anyone that might know?
 

WonkoTheSane

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No idea if it's the best way. None of it is even guaranteed to work out for you. Honestly I think it's a bad idea to pin your dreams on loving to live somewhere you've never lived. Japan was supposed to be a stepping stone to somewhere I thought I wanted to live, but Japan just fits me more naturally.

As to quicker... Life doesn't start when you achieve your goal, so enjoy the whole process since soon enough that time will have passed and someday you'll want it back if you don't pay attention to it at the time.
 

JoelBM

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Oh don't get me wrong, I live my life by the expression "it's about the journey not the destination" but also understand that I've made my decision for Japan years ago and it's definitely apart of my journey. I'm having fun no matter how long it takes. I'm just preparing myself for the struggles of reaching there. Ive set my goals and if Japan isn't where I reside in my end days, then so be it but until I spend my time there gaining an experience that I've wanted for years, I will do everything I possibly can to get there. I'm in the process of going back to school for English education and computer aiding and drafting. I've studied CAD in high school and was damn good at it so why not approach it again especially when I see the market is quite high in Japan. Thank you very much for the info and the concerns :) I hope to make friends on here and share great experiences with everyone as life continues to move right on
 

Mike Cash

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If you put the time, effort, and money into finishing university and then p!ss it all away to drive a truck in Japan then you are not only a fool, but a damned fool.
 

WonkoTheSane

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You might consider getting a degree in business along with whatever tech field degree you get. Perhaps international business.

If I were you I'd also look at which tech degree gets you the best bang for the buck. Perhaps engineering makes more sense than CAD? I don't know the demand or pay for CAD, but I know I've met quite a few reasonably well off engineers in Japan. Every degree sets your monetary ceiling unless you move into management and to do that you want to have a piece of paper which shows you understand business.

There's nothing wrong with doing what you love, the trick is finding something you love which also pays well.
 

JoelBM

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If you put the time, effort, and money into finishing university and then p!ss it all away to drive a truck in Japan then you are not only a fool, but a damned fool.
@Mike Cash honestly there are a lot better ways to express your opinion without sounding like a complete incompetent *****. So if you're not going to be any where near civil, please do your best to **** off
 

JoelBM

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You might consider getting a degree in business along with whatever tech field degree you get. Perhaps international business.

If I were you I'd also look at which tech degree gets you the best bang for the buck. Perhaps engineering makes more sense than CAD? I don't know the demand or pay for CAD, but I know I've met quite a few reasonably well off engineers in Japan. Every degree sets your monetary ceiling unless you move into management and to do that you want to have a piece of paper which shows you understand business.

There's nothing wrong with doing what you love, the trick is finding something you love which also pays well.
From what I was researching CAD is included with an engineering degree. I can be 100% wrong but I was among more for architectural engineering. My fear for chasing engineering was the fact of the experience needed for a visa. Business is one that I have to continue to pursue since I've gotten pretty much an intro already (in a sense) nev thought about international business though as stupid as that may seem lol
 

Mike Cash

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@Mike Cash honestly there are a lot better ways to express your opinion without sounding like a complete incompetent *****. So if you're not going to be any where near civil, please do your best to **** off

You do realize what I do for a living, don't you? And where I do it? Since before you were born...
 

JoelBM

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You do realize what I do for a living, don't you? And where I do it? Since before you were born...
I won't doubt your credentials and no I don't know what you do but that gives you no reason to be rude to someone who is just pushing themselves passed the others to do what they've always wanted. No, I'm not going go into years of study and experience just to drive a truck for crap money. I know where my true ideas stand and I'm not about just go into another country and just fill another spot. If you would like to understand my deep and true intentions we can easily discuss that in private. Now, may we let bygones be bygones and help me in a civil manner?
 

Mike Cash

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I'm a truck driver in Japan.

You carne here asking about a vague and shapeless dream to get a job "driving" in Japan... not even knowing (or caring?) what you intended to drive.

You're not eligible for a visa to come here and do anything at the moment. To become eligible you will have to spend years of your life and lots of money and effort getting a degree... which while you're at it you can learn very lucrative professional skills if you have any sense whatsoever.

Even with a degree in hand, you couldn't get a working visa to come here and drive, and even if you could nobody would hire you anyway. You would have to come here and work in some other field first. I have no idea what Immigration would say to someone switching to a driving job, but I doubt they would look favorably on it. You'd need to either get married and switch to a spouse visa or work here in another field for about ten years, apply for permanent resident status, then make the change.

Now.... you tell me if anyone going through university just so they could maybe show up in Japan and get a job driving something maybe five to ten years later, throwing away their education and having essentially used it just to satisfy an Immigration requirement, would be a damned fool or not.

Pointing out the foolishness of it, while I don't expect you to like it, is the single biggest favor I could do you.

On a side note:

Did you get "degrees" or some Vo-Tech training certificates? I find it hard to imagine that any college student on a degree track...even for an associates degree...would not be aware of their degree status.

You should really go back to your school and discuss your career goals and educational opportunities/options with a professional counselor.
 

JoelBM

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I'm a truck driver in Japan.

You carne here asking about a vague and shapeless dream to get a job "driving" in Japan... not even knowing (or caring?) what you intended to drive.

You're not eligible for a visa to come here and do anything at the moment. To become eligible you will have to spend years of your life and lots of money and effort getting a degree... which while you're at it you can learn very lucrative professional skills if you have any sense whatsoever.

Even with a degree in hand, you couldn't get a working visa to come here and drive, and even if you could nobody would hire you anyway. You would have to come here and work in some other field first. I have no idea what Immigration would say to someone switching to a driving job, but I doubt they would look favorably on it. You'd need to either get married and switch to a spouse visa or work here in another field for about ten years, apply for permanent resident status, then make the change.

Now.... you tell me if anyone going through university just so they could maybe show up in Japan and get a job driving something maybe five to ten years later, throwing away their education and having essentially used it just to satisfy an Immigration requirement, would be a damned fool or not.

Pointing out the foolishness of it, while I don't expect you to like it, is the single biggest favor I could do you.

On a side note:

Did you get "degrees" or some Vo-Tech training certificates? I find it hard to imagine that any college student on a degree track...even for an associates degree...would not be aware of their degree status.

You should really go back to your school and discuss your career goals and educational opportunities/options with a professional counselor.
Ahhhh lol now I see why you get so irritated with others. Obviously, you have yet to pay any attention to what I'm doing. At least now I know a piece of the story of big bad mike cash. Look, you still have no right to talk to anyone the way you do. I love what I do. If I get the opportunity to be in anything within the automotive field, that would be the ideal but like I've said before, I think realistically. I'm not stuck in some bs fantasy land but do know one thing about me, I see, I aim, and I never miss my target. I'm sure you didn't give up after people brought you down and saddens me to know that such an, I'm assuming, experienced man would do anything to bring someone new down. I see where you come from and I thank you for your concerns. Now, the college I went to is a well known automotive school. I doubt that their credentials matter to immigration so I'll have to try a different approach. I doubt I'll find a spouse in Japan before officially living there and anything else takes time and patience to acquire. I'll give you a little back story sir, I don't come from anything close to having good money. I lost both my parents while young so everything I've gotten, I worked very long and hard for and I don't plan on stopping. I am planning on speaking with someone within the embassy nearest to me to find out if I just need more experience with what I have since I know my associates for automotive will only stay as that. I can go after my ASE but I don't see how American tests will work for me in Japan. How did you land your job as a truck driver? Please leave all bs aside sir. Your attitude only elevates the problem.
 

Mike Cash

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Why am I not surprised you chose to get your back up in the air?

Just what on earth do you even mean by "the automotive field" anyway? You want to design cars? You want to be a salesman? You want to install CV joints on the assembly line? You want to sweep up at Jiffy Lube?

Your stated destination is so broad and amorphous (and change right before our very eyes) that it is hard to know what to tell you.

Why do you want to immigrate to Japan anyway? Have you ever even visited?
 

JoelBM

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Why am I not surprised you chose to get your back up in the air? Just what on earth do you even mean by "the automotive field" anyway? You want to design cars? You want to be a salesman? You want to install CV joints on the assembly line? You want to sweep up at Jiffy Lube? Your stated destination is so broad and amorphous (and change right before our very eyes) that it is hard to know what to tell you. Why do you want to immigrate to Japan anyway? Have you ever even visited?

You're obviously not understanding me and yet you continue with your pointless irritation towards me. Look, I calmed down because there is no reason to speak to someone with an attitude. The little bit that my mom was around she taught me better than to allow people to control my actions. That's why I'm back to having a regular discussion with you. Now, ideal, I would love to be a mechanic there. I know that a job like that would be way to hard to get in a country where you can find those people everywhere and any company will choose their people before a foreigner. If that's the case, I'll continue my career with business management and learn as much as I can while also trying to get internships. You see why (you believe) my plans are changing? Engineering I will pursue as a plus. I've always enjoyed it and architectural designs so I have no issues learning that. Anything else I've missed? Maybe becoming a teacher which is the easiest in my eyes but I'll keep that in the back of my mind until I discuss with immigration. My reasons for leaving this country are varied and you would probably only find more excuses to try and anger me again so I'll leave that to imagination
 

Mike Cash

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Dude, you're the one choosing to be p!ssed over something that you apparently didn't even disagree with, or at least can't refute.

Everything said about the possibilities of a visa to come here and work as a driver also apply to coming here to work as a mechanic. Plus, at some point you would need to pass the national licensing exam (in Japanese)

I can't for the life of me understand how you take anything I've said to you as an attempt on my part to be irritating. The reason why I said your plans are shifting before our very eyes is based on reading what you have written. I want to drive. I want to do CAD. I want to do business management. I want to work in anything automotive. I want to do engineering. Maybe I'll teach. I want to be a mechanic. I get vertigo just trying to keep up.

If your goal is to have some career you like and to engage in it in Japan, then you need to do a lot of research. You need to find out what sort of skilled professionals are in demand in Japan, figure out where there is overlap with a field you have an interest in, and go see a professional career/educational counselor for advice about the wisest way to set you upon that path. You also need to get started on a plan for learning the language and work your tail off at it. Learning the language in a serious manner and making actual meaningful progress at it requires a hell of a lot of hard work. In the sorts of things you seem to be interested in, Japanese language ability (including literacy) is likely to play as large a role in increasing your opportunities as whatever professional training the job might require.

If you're just here to tell us you're not like the others, we get it. They all said they weren't like the others either. I've been on this forum since 2002 and you're about the hundredth float in the parade of people with several years of preparation and hard work separating them from their dream of emigrating to Japan. So far, I don't think we've ever had a single one of them stick with it and actually do the work. We treat them all seriously, and they pretty much all get mad or get their feelings hurt when we dispassionately tell them what is required...what they need to hear instead of what they want to hear.

If you're serious, go talk to professional counselors. Enroll in university. Graduate.

I'll make you the same offer I've made many times over the years: when you finish all that and come to Japan to start your new life, I will take the day off work and pick you up at the airport.
 

JoelBM

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Dude, you're the one choosing to be p!ssed over something that you apparently didn't even disagree with, or at least can't refute.

Everything said about the possibilities of a visa to come here and work as a driver also apply to coming here to work as a mechanic. Plus, at some point you would need to pass the national licensing exam (in Japanese)

I can't for the life of me understand how you take anything I've said to you as an attempt on my part to be irritating. The reason why I said your plans are shifting before our very eyes is based on reading what you have written. I want to drive. I want to do CAD. I want to do business management. I want to work in anything automotive. I want to do engineering. Maybe I'll teach. I want to be a mechanic. I get vertigo just trying to keep up.

If your goal is to have some career you like and to engage in it in Japan, then you need to do a lot of research. You need to find out what sort of skilled professionals are in demand in Japan, figure out where there is overlap with a field you have an interest in, and go see a professional career/educational counselor for advice about the wisest way to set you upon that path. You also need to get started on a plan for learning the language and work your tail off at it. Learning the language in a serious manner and making actual meaningful progress at it requires a hell of a lot of hard work. In the sorts of things you seem to be interested in, Japanese language ability (including literacy) is likely to play as large a role in increasing your opportunities as whatever professional training the job might require.

If you're just here to tell us you're not like the others, we get it. They all said they weren't like the others either. I've been on this forum since 2002 and you're about the hundredth float in the parade of people with several years of preparation and hard work separating them from their dream of emigrating to Japan. So far, I don't think we've ever had a single one of them stick with it and actually do the work. We treat them all seriously, and they pretty much all get mad or get their feelings hurt when we dispassionately tell them what is required...what they need to hear instead of what they want to hear.

If you're serious, go talk to professional counselors. Enroll in university. Graduate.

I'll make you the same offer I've made many times over the years: when you finish all that and come to Japan to start your new life, I will take the day off work and pick you up at the airport.
Now that's the encouragement I was looking for. Thank you sir and believe me, I'm holding you to your word. I'll stay on top of this forum so you can see my progress if you care but do understand, whether you've heard it a million and one times or not, I will be expecting to see you at the airport so don't die on me when I'm getting everything situated.

By the way, I never care to hear someone say what I want to hear. My biggest issue was the fact that you came out rude about it that's all and you have yet to realize this. I've seen you do it to a few threads already. I bet you're a character face to face. Thank you for everything and I really appreciate it
 

Mike Cash

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People frequently mistake "blunt" for "rude".
 

butarox

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JoelBM,

I can share some of the ways I've seen foreigners make a go of it in Japan, with varying levels of happiness/fulfillment:

1. Get a technical degree (by that, I mean specific skill...engineering, programming, accounting, finance, law; advanced degree is a plus)
Be very competent in your field. Join an international company in your home country. Look for opportunities (inside or out) to work in Japan. Don't "overdo" it with your interest in Japan. Read the tea leaves to know what amount of interest you should show. Some companies will want you to be aggressive. Some will get tired of your sh*t. After a few good years in a multinational, start to put your antenna up with headhunters in Japan. Believe me, you'll probably be happier working for a gaishi (foreign co) in Japan than for a traditional Japanese company.

2. Get a Ph.D. (again...sciences are best) and look for schools that have sister schools in Japan. Look for opportunities inside/outside. Be very competent. Publish some cool/important sh*t. The closer to fields that the Japanese excel at, the better.

3. Get a degree (any degree) and teach English. You can make it a lifelong career. I've met people who have taught for decades. Much rarer are the ones who leave the English teaching track to start their own business. If you're looking to just experience Japan for a year or two...meh...it's a thing that people do. Not the worst way to experience another country. Just go in with your eyes wide open. Some situations will be better than others. As a warning, I haven't met too many career track English teachers that appear to be happy. I'm sure there are some out there.

4. Marry a Japanese and go native. Don't know what to tell you about this one. I don't see many happy couples where this was the intent of one spouse or the other. Marriage is hard enough...Admittedly, there are plenty of people who have done this whom I haven't met, so happiness could be the rule instead of the exception.

5. Go to school in Japan and try to get on with a Japanese firm (or multinational). Again...traditional Japanese companies can be tough.

6. Other randomness. Be a top-notch K1 fighter. Sumo or other martial arts. Import/export, especially for non-major countries that don't have the expertise or connections. Southeast Asia is hot right now. Entrepreneur...quite often escapees from the English teaching path. Translation (helps if you have a technical degree and can actually write). Luck into a uni teaching position (I've seen at least one case). Network marketing. Motivational speaking. Government.

That's about all I can think of.
 

JoelBM

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JoelBM,

I can share some of the ways I've seen foreigners make a go of it in Japan, with varying levels of happiness/fulfillment:

1. Get a technical degree (by that, I mean specific skill...engineering, programming, accounting, finance, law; advanced degree is a plus)
Be very competent in your field. Join an international company in your home country. Look for opportunities (inside or out) to work in Japan. Don't "overdo" it with your interest in Japan. Read the tea leaves to know what amount of interest you should show. Some companies will want you to be aggressive. Some will get tired of your sh*t. After a few good years in a multinational, start to put your antenna up with headhunters in Japan. Believe me, you'll probably be happier working for a gaishi (foreign co) in Japan than for a traditional Japanese company.

2. Get a Ph.D. (again...sciences are best) and look for schools that have sister schools in Japan. Look for opportunities inside/outside. Be very competent. Publish some cool/important sh*t. The closer to fields that the Japanese excel at, the better.

3. Get a degree (any degree) and teach English. You can make it a lifelong career. I've met people who have taught for decades. Much rarer are the ones who leave the English teaching track to start their own business. If you're looking to just experience Japan for a year or two...meh...it's a thing that people do. Not the worst way to experience another country. Just go in with your eyes wide open. Some situations will be better than others. As a warning, I haven't met too many career track English teachers that appear to be happy. I'm sure there are some out there.

4. Marry a Japanese and go native. Don't know what to tell you about this one. I don't see many happy couples where this was the intent of one spouse or the other. Marriage is hard enough...Admittedly, there are plenty of people who have done this whom I haven't met, so happiness could be the rule instead of the exception.

5. Go to school in Japan and try to get on with a Japanese firm (or multinational). Again...traditional Japanese companies can be tough.

6. Other randomness. Be a top-notch K1 fighter. Sumo or other martial arts. Import/export, especially for non-major countries that don't have the expertise or connections. Southeast Asia is hot right now. Entrepreneur...quite often escapees from the English teaching path. Translation (helps if you have a technical degree and can actually write). Luck into a uni teaching position (I've seen at least one case). Network marketing. Motivational speaking. Government.

That's about all I can think of.
Thank you thank you thank you!! Tho have been the most helpful yet. I've been researching day and night as it is and have already been studying the Japanese language. I feel I can actually be happy teaching, in a way, since I've always had an eye for literature. With that being said, I'll save that one as a last resort to a sense.
 

Mike Cash

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Thank you thank you thank you!! Tho have been the most helpful yet. I've been researching day and night as it is and have already been studying the Japanese language. I feel I can actually be happy teaching, in a way, since I've always had an eye for literature. With that being said, I'll save that one as a last resort to a sense.

You really really really really need to gain a better understanding of what "teaching" English in Japan involves before you become too enamored of that idea. Coming here prepared for nothing but teaching English conversation is one of the most surefire roads to a miserable long-term stay in Japan there is.
 

butarox

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You really really really really need to gain a better understanding of what "teaching" English in Japan involves before you become too enamored of that idea. Coming here prepared for nothing but teaching English conversation is one of the most surefire roads to a miserable long-term stay in Japan there is.

Agreed..which is why I added the warning at the end, there. Not many happy long-term English teachers that I've run across.

Definitely a _last resort_, and smarter to use (if at all) only as a short-term way to see how you like living/working in Japan. I could (kind-of) see it working out if the person uses their time well. Take the time to learn about your future career. Network with different groups. Make professional contacts. Treat the job as a job, and socialize outside the English teacher/foreign drifter subculture. Hell, I had a friend who did a one-year teaching stint in Japan as a way to learn more Japanese (nikkei guy). He returned to the U.S., got his CPA, and eventually became CFO for a public company over there. (yes...probably a 1-in-1000 story)

Without a definite career plan, though, I'd say the English teaching route could be a nasty trap if you don't know what you're doing.
 

BillMad

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@Mike Cash honestly there are a lot better ways to express your opinion without sounding like a complete incompetent *****. So if you're not going to be any where near civil, please do your best to **** off

Hi Joel,

Not trying to drive you in a corner or anything but I think he's just trying to sound objective about your decisions. But in the end they are what they are, your own decisions. You choose what you want to do.

I was a newbie too and I've come to understand that sometimes when people seem rude here, they aren't actually being rude but rather trying to send a strong message or getting you to re-evaluate something on the basis of their own life experience.
It in no ways means that you are wrong in any way, its simply the advice they have to share, listen to them and you'll end up with a lot of interesting stories/ facts you wont find after a billion google searches.

All the best with your endeavors.
 

johnnyG

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...architectural engineering. ...

Architects are truly a poorly paid bunch. If you want to go that route, become a structural engineer--the guy an architect will rely on to make things real.

Also, stop talking about CAD as if it's some kind of unique specialty. True engineers will either be able to do it on the side, or their bosses will outsource it after the true engineers have done their stuff.
 
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