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Japan Seeks to Buy UNSC Seat with ODA

lexico

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ODA can't make up for invasion of China: Money, war are separate issues, envoy says in response to Machimura
Japan Times said:
Japan's official development assistance to China cannot compensate for its occupation of Chinese territory in the 1930s and 1940s, a Foreign Ministry spokesman said Tuesday.

The two matters should be viewed separately, Chinese Foreign ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao said at a scheduled news briefing. His comment was in response to a May 26 statement by Foreign Minister Nobutaka Machimura, who said Japan's post-World War II aid to Asian countries indicates it has repented for the war.

"I'd like to separate these two issues clearly," Liu said. "We can't eliminate the period of history when Japan caused damage and catastrophe to Asian countries just because Japan has provided aid to the relevant countries."

Chinese Foreign ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao:
Liu called ODA and other Japanese economic cooperation with China a "positive effort" advantageous to both countries.

Since 1980, Japan has given China 3.133 trillion yen in low-interest loans, 145 billion yen in grants and 144 billion yen worth of technical cooperation.

But Liu criticized Japanese leaders' visits to Yasukuni Shrine, a Tokyo landmark where 14 Class-A war criminals are honored along with the nation's war dead.

"The worshipping by Japanese leaders at Yasukuni Shrine constitutes a ridiculous and wrong denial of history by Japanese officials," he said.

Japanese Foreign Minister Nobutaka Machimura:
Machimura told an economic gathering in Tokyo on May 26 that he hopes China and South Korea will regard Japan's "diligent" provision of ODA and its "involvement in peace activities as a peaceful nation" since the war ended 60 years ago as signs Japan has taken a hard look at its past militarism.

On Monday, Machimura labeled as "outrageous" criticisms that visits to Yasukuni Shrine indicate support for militarism. Chinese media slammed the statement Tuesday.

Japanese officials have complained that Chinese citizens know little about ODA or other aspects of postwar Japan.
Japan's ODA plan continues
A panel of the Liberal Democratic Party urged the government Tuesday to set a medium-term target for increasing the amount of Japan's foreign aid to 0.7 percent of gross national product by 2015.
The panel also repeated a call on the government to have the budget for official development assistance increased in fiscal 2006 for the first time since 1999.

Panel members agreed that there was a need to boost ODA because the aid is "a main diplomatic tool" for Japan, which is seeking a permanent seat on the U.N. Security Council.
If we look at this critical article on Germany's compensation for forced WWII slave laborers, Dark Shadows of German Industry, it is plain to see that an all-out apology for/recognition of IJA atrocities is a far superior strategy to claiming to have made sufficient monetary compensations. One estimate quotes a compensation amount that would mean each Japanese household forgetting about sending one child to college. The figures may vary, but you can imagine the magnitude. Iris Chang wrote in The Rape of Nanking, Penguin 1997, p. 12, 'Japan has doled out less than 1% of the amount that Germany has paid in war reparations to its victims.' We're talking about lots and lots of money, not some interest bearing loans.
 
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lolife

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99% of the people alive today have nothing to do with any of that. Should they be held responsible for what the people of their country did generations ago? I don't get it.. So, there is actually a bill for the rape on nanking, or what? Isn't it time to grow up, kiss and make up, and move on?? You know, cooperate? Create good relations, stability? Put narrow-minded nationalism aside, turn your heads, and start looking forward?

:?

If you ask me, personally I have no respect for chinese leadership. Paranoia and control all the way.

:eek:
 

lexico

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I understand that it might be difficult for you to understand the complexity involved especially if you have not had the chance to see the histories of China and Japan in the context of WWII and imperialism in Asia. Please note that monetary compensation was never mentioned by either countries, but only implied. That 'repentance' was used in place of 'compensation' is obvious, but the word 'compensation' is carefully avoided. It might help to position your first point in context if we see that China's response was a reply to Japan's claim that
a May 26 statement by Foreign Minister Nobutaka Machimura, who said Japan's post-World War II aid to Asian countries indicates it has repented for the war.
The answer was ODA loans have nothing to do with compensation. Nobody was presenting a bill for the rape of Nanjing as you say btw.
lolife said:
99% of the people alive today have nothing to do with any of that. Should they be held responsible for what the people of their country did generations ago ?
Good point, and I'm quite sure everyone is aware of it. In Japan alone the issue has undergone much heated debate with inconclusive results.
Wakabayashi said:
In 1967, Hora Tomio (1906-2000) published a chapter titlted 'Nanking Incident,' the first in-depth study of the Nanking Atrocity by a professional Japanese scholar. His study was followed by debates between Honda Katsuichi (1932- ) in Asahi shinbun, Yamamoto Shichihei aka Isaiah ben-Dasan (1921-1991) and Suzuki Akira (1929- ) contributors for Shokun! Their 1971-1975 debates carry significance in developing key ideas regarding the IJA Atrocities esp. concerning the Nanjing massacre. In brief the two key concepts developed were the ideas of

1. sensou sekinin ツ戰テ?ツ・ツ静凪?戮: the responsibility, accountability, or culpability that ordinary Japanese bear for wartime sins.

2. sengo sekinin ツ戰ナ津」ツ静凪?戮: the compounded culpability that stems from having evaded that responsibility until today.
According to this definition, revising WWII history in total denial of atrocities would be adding to 2. ツ戰ナ津」ツ静凪?戮 whereas 91-year-old Honda Tatsutaro, a private soldier of IJA, visiting Lugou Bridge for a peronal apology would be an individual atonement for 1. ツ戰テ?ツ・ツ静凪?戮.
These definitions are only valid as generic, and depending on the context in which they are used they take on different shades of subdefinitions.
Wakabayashi said:
1a. sensou sekinin ツ戰テ?ツ・ツ静凪?戮 (for leftist historians): the culpability in the 15-year war of imperialist aggression mainly against Asians from 1931 to 1945.

2b. sengo sekinin ツ戰ナ津」ツ静凪?戮 (for human rights activist): the culpability on which to base demands that the Japanese nation compensate foreign and domestic victims of that aggression.

(Awaya Kentarou et al. eds. Sensou sekinin, sengo sekinin ツ戰テ?ツ・ツ静凪?戮ツ戰ナ津」ツ静凪?戮 (Tokyo: Asahi Sinbunsha 1994))
(Awaya Kentarou Miketsu no sensou sekinin (Tokyo: Kashiwa Shobou, 1994))

Conservative revisionists...that young Japanese now live over 60 years after Nanking in a postbubble age of prolonged recession, brutal restructuring, and burgeoning welfare costs; and unlike their Chinese or Korean accusers, they have never waged a war of aggression after 1945. Why must they remain culpable for their grandparents' alleged misdeeds ? One minimalist reckons, claims for compensation will come to 'at least an average of two million yen per household--enough to keep one child from attending university...if claims are granted as demanded, the figure will be 10-100 times higher.

(Sakamoto Takao, Rekishi kyouiku o kangeru (Tokyo: PHP Kenkyuusho, 1998) pp. 120, 126)

Today these ethical issues remain unresolved. Leftists denounce their countrimen for moral sloth and callous greed compared with postwar Germans who admit past atrocities and pay foreign victims 80 times more in compensation money.

(Asahi Shinbunsha ed. Sengo hoshou to wa nani ka (Tokyo: Asahi shinbunsha 1994) pp. 15-31, 119-134)
note: content preserved with minor paraphrasing for readability.
lolife said:
I don't get it.. So, there is actually a bill for the rape on Nanking, or what ?
Not that I have seen, but since you mention it, I plan to look into information regarding such.
Isn't it time to grow up, kiss and make up, and move on ?
You know, cooperate ? Create good relations, stability ? Put narrow-minded nationalism aside, turn your heads, and start looking forward ?
All good suggestions that are being implemented already at the personal level as well as official and governmental AFAIK. But if I may add; is it so awful to ask, 'But do you know what happened in Nanjing in December 1937 ?' Esp. when word gets out of Japan that history books are being revised to downplay or deny historical incidents of aggression involving Chinese victims, I think the question is quite legitimate--(unpleasant emotions aside) even on a diplomatic level. It's all very logical if you think about it, and not like mutual bashing as you would see in the news; thus flows history. :)

source: Bob Tadashi Wakabayashi, The Nanking 100-Man Killing Contest Debate: 1971-1975, Journal of Japanese Studies 26-2, Summer 2000, pp. 307-309
 
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Tonysoong

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lolife said:
99% of the people alive today have nothing to do with any of that. Should they be held responsible for what the people of their country did generations ago? I don't get it.. So, there is actually a bill for the rape on nanking, or what? Isn't it time to grow up, kiss and make up, and move on?? You know, cooperate? Create good relations, stability? Put narrow-minded nationalism aside, turn your heads, and start looking forward?

:?

If you ask me, personally I have no respect for chinese leadership. Paranoia and control all the way.

:eek:

You are just shouting slogans in irrelavent terms, lolife. Any two disputing parties need to make up, but it just doesn't mean that they always can. Are you sure that you can go on with just anyone when mutual trust and respet are absent?

I personally don't like the Chinese leadership either, but does that mean they are incorrect in everything they do? And are you sure I like the Japanese leadership? In many cases, things just happen,ignoring your likings or dislikings, right?
 

lexico

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I can see your frustration Tony. I've been discussing these sensitive matters with friends and family. Quite often I am given either a shocked face or negative response regardless of who they are; I would say roughly 2/3 respond that way. I really can't blame them either, because out of ignorance of facts and a clear understanding of what is beneath the surface that looks simply chaotic and vengeful, people often give a simple, reflexive response of perplexity.

I really stopped blaming myself for not being able to convey the heart of the matter. Instead, I decided to take up the unexpected task of historical education on myself. How can I persuade even one person if I don't know enough of what's going on ? I'm not saying that you don't know, but perhaps it can be some consolation that it's only natural for some people to express their negativity eventhough they are as offended by the war crimes as you, for the simple fact that it is simply too overwhelming. I used to be that way myself, ashamed to say.

I was in Beijing three years after the June 4 incident. Although I was indignant when Mr. Bush Senior proclaimed '(US) Business (with China) as usual' and lifted the embargo, I came to realize that I am only an observer, and the matter lies with the Chinese people. It is an internal matter that I am sure the collective wisdom of the citizens will find a solution. When I see a westerner/American making China bashing statements, I often wonder whether (s)he is doing anything to help the prisoners of conscience, or just lashing out on the spur of the moment. It has been a genuinely awakening experience since 1989, and I took up Chinese studies to better understand the language and history. How much there is to learn, to understand, and to appreciate; these things are really not easy to see by scratching the surface or by watching the news.
 

Park

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Yeah

Lexico, I respect you for standing up for what you believe in. Cheers mate.

I dislike these people whose ethics waiver with the wind and seem to change depending on which side of a man-made political border they are standing.

What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong regardless of what your latitude and longitude.

These people who defend Japanese racism based on the premise that it is "their country". Have no concept of fundamental human rights and suffice it to say...these are the guys you don't want to turn your back on becuse they will turn on you like a rattlesnake because they are wishy washy, cowardly, self-serving, sell-out, charisma-men.

A little off topic.....but still relevant to this forum.
 

qwertyu

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Hi lexico,

Well-argued, and I would like to point out that most "aid" is ploughed back to the donor nations in the form of lucrative contracts, consultancies, etc. often awarded to the "Haliburtons" [politically connected co.s] of the world, with significant kickbacks to the politicians involved.

See "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man". Straightforward reparations [ as per the Germans] is preferable as it is money up front with no strings.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/09/1526251o

I find that many of those who tell the victims to " just get over it!" are simply callous and lacking in empathy for those they already have a bias or prejudice against. They are unlikely to tell off, say, Tibetans. Most of us mentally assign white and black hats to others - "good" people, "bad" people - even though we know that this is such nonsense but we become incapable of sympathising with "bad" people like N. Koreans and Chinese.
 
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