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feelinjapan

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Hi

I'm new in this forum.
I have this strange feelin' about everythin' that has to do with Japan, I'm amazed by the culture, people, art...many times I wish I were japanese.
I came to this forum to know more about Japan.

The difference I noticed between US and Japan's cultures is that japanese have more morals, honor, respect. They are more peaceful people, smarter and they don't restrict themselves with things related to art, they're very creative.

Of course this is in general, there're exceptions everywhere, but I think there's a tendency.

What do you think?
 

nice gaijin

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I think you have a lot to learn, but that's why we're all here. I'm curious as to where you noticed these differences?
 

feelinjapan

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what do you mean by "you have a lot to learn"
you think what I said is wrong?
what I said are things that are preety clear, they're smarter, their technological advancement is amazing, they're respectful and there's no doubt they're very creative you can tell just by looking at their commercials, video games, cartoons, music, clothing...etc
 

nice gaijin

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You're making generalizations which are not entirely correct.
How are they smarter? What technological advancement are you referring to?

I won't deny that there is a lot of emphasis on "politeness" in Japanese culture, but by their own standards, which are different from other other cultures. An American might not have the same concept of what is "respectful" as a Japanese person.

As for creativity, there are creative people wherever you go, and to be honest, I'm not floored by the originality of Japanese commercials, music or modern clothing. I'm not a big fan of cartoons and video games, but they all seem to be done in the same style. This doesn't strike me as particularly "creative."
 

leonmarino

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There many threads on this forum that have a different topic name but actually comes down to the same issue: is Japan really that unique? Here a few recent examples: 1 2:eek:
Many of us been through the phase you are going through at the moment Feelinjapan, or in any case I admit I did go through such a phase. May I ask you, if I am not too intrusive, how old you are and how much or how little you have had contact with Japanese culture? And I don't mean Manga, Anime, J-pop or whatever, but have you been there, have you spoken to Japanese people..? I don't mean to offend you Feelinjapan, but I sense that you are still pretty young and havn't looked into the Japanese culture that closely.😌
Japan is a great country for sure, no doubt about it. But I don't think it is fair to say they are smarter and more creative than other people, or even more polite.. I hope you will learn a lot more about Japan in the coming days, months and years so you can get a more balanced view on Japan. This forum is a good place to start as there are a lot of experienced people here willing to share their story.👍
Which reminds me, welcome to his forum!:p
 

Ryuhou

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Still, one can tell a lot just by watching anime and/or reading manga. I think what feelingjapan said is mostly true, of how Japanese show more respect, of their morals and honor, of them being skillful and hardworking, and so on. I sort of get a similar feeling of fascination by their culture. Soon I'll be able to see for myself, of how it is there in fact. I'll share my story as well :)
 

geesehoward4life

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Smarter and more Creative?

Uhhh, no one gets left back in Japanese schools. I've met some very smart Japanese penpals, but they've been "shocked" that I have at least some understanding about things outside of America. I have to say that I have no idea where you got the idea that the Japanese are smarter then Americans.

As far as the creative part, how many more times can the same storylines be told. As a point of reference I saw the DVD Mail which stars Kuriyama Chiaki or Chiaki Kuriyama, which ever floats your boat, but it was pretty straight forward and at the end you find out she's a ghost, which you... kinda already knew if you cared. Either way, the main character is supposedly a powerful psychic or whatever, I was expecting him to use his powers or something to make it so that she could be with him and continue to help him with his cases and although it would have been weird, because of course she is dead, it would've really been impressive and shown that he not only was as powerful as they tried to portray, but

That he really was in love with her and missed her and was willing to forego his life with another woman to be with her until his time came and then they could ascend to Heaven TOGETHER. That, is creative.
👍

However:eek:
What I got was him wimping out and then "sending her" anyway and then having the nerve to say we will see each other in a next life. I didn't exactly find his words or actions very different from too many other Japanese movies and shows that I've seen, but I haven't seen them all so 👍 , but I use to watch too much Anime until I just got tired of it. It all looked the same, all acted the same, eventually. I still haven't gotten tired of Ranma 1/2, but I seriously dispute your creative claim.
 

nice gaijin

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Ryuhou said:
Still, one can tell a lot just by watching anime and/or reading manga. I think what feelingjapan said is mostly true, of how Japanese show more respect, of their morals and honor
I can link to a few videos that would put this claim to rest, but I imagine they're against all sorts of forum rules.

...of them being skillful and hardworking, and so on.
Just doing a google search for "Japanese efficiency"...
http://www.gate39.com/business/jpncompany.aspx
http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/article/0,13673,501021209-395413,00.html

I'm not all that cynical about Japan, but I do tend to bristle when people spout this exported fantasy vision. Generalizations run both ways, and both kinds are just as dangerous. I tend to pay more heed to users like Mike Cash, who has lived in Japan for quite some time, and cites first hand experience instead of making sweeping uninformed speculations.
 

geesehoward4life

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Thanks for the Info

I guess my header said it all, but still Thanks. I was paying attention to the fact that right now I've heard a lot of news about cell phones having some sort of "credit" that can be transferred from it to the cashier where people pay later or when they get paid or something like that, I have it on my computer, but how is that going to solve their struggling economy and why is youth unemployment so high there?
 

Mike Cash

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feelinjapan said:
Hi

The difference I noticed between US and Japan's cultures is that japanese have more morals, honor, respect.
What do you think?

I would think it hilarious, had I not already tired of laughing at such naive and uninformed assumptions a long, long time ago.
 

mash27

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this forum seems to have a lot of disenchanted people with a "wait and you'll see" attitude about Japan. I think that everyone develops their own impressions about countries. Some people get disillusioned with Japan while others don't.

The Question is always "Who" likes or doesn't like Japan, but there isn't a universal truth about how someone will feel about Japan. Each individual as his one peronsality and circumstances that make him see things differently.

What feelinjapan is saying is mostly true. The Japanese are creative, definitly more than americans when it comes to movies, pornography, food, fashion, video games and cartoons. There is a lot of repetiton in anime, video games and movies, but not more than what u find in the US. What's important is the number of unique and original things that are produced by a culture and Japan is definitly not short on those. And the Japanese are less hindered by moral values or taboos, so if they feel like making a TV show about who can get his underwear dirtier the fastest or a prono about which girl can poop more they go ahead and do it.

Technologically the Japanese are the leaders in electronics and cars. Far superior than the US. Their army is also the best equiped in the world, even ahead of the US but for obvious reasons smaller in size and influence.

It's also a heirachical society so some elements of respect and honor are omnipresent. THey have they own view of what is moral and respectful and that's just fine. Who are we to impose our western view on them.

It's great that Japan is free of moralizing when it comes to sex, nudity and other things.

I find that Japan's view of sex, women, marriage and other things more natural and healthly than the west. Unfortunatly most westerners are uncapable of getting out of they cultural formating in order to judge japan on its own terms and according to its own circumstances.
 

nice gaijin

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A lot of the "creativity" you're referring to is not a result of less hindrance, but more likely a backlash against the heavy repression Japanese society inflicts on its citizens on a daily basis.

You talk about judging Japan on its own terms, yet you've repeatedly compared it to a country other than your own.
 

mash27

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nice gaijin said:
A lot of the "creativity" you're referring to is not a result of less hindrance, but more likely a backlash against the heavy repression Japanese society inflicts on its citizens on a daily basis.

You talk about judging Japan on its own terms, yet you've repeatedly compared it to a country other than your own.

The US border is 30 minutes away and TV and culture in canada are 90% american so I'm no stranger to the US.

When I talk about judging Japan on its own terms I mean understanding the context in which it's culture has evloved into what it is. Each particular context leads to different repercussions tha can be good or bad.

Every society on the face of the earth is subject to one form or another of social repression and the Western capitalist societies are no exception to that. A lot of this repression is internalized to the point of becoming invisible.
The Japanese are repressed in one way, the Americans in another and the Arabs in yet another and so on.

I don't think interpreting things in terms of repression is the right approach. After all many societies are more repressed than Japan (have u been to Saudi Arabia or Iran where women are veiled, pornography unexistent and public places segregated into Male/female?) Where is the creative backclash there?

And besides what does social repression have to do with creating a video game with good characters, a memorable plot and exciting gameplay? OR any other creative product?

If u are talking about porn, then yes, some sexual practices were introduced to compensate for their mosaic laws.

Please give me specific examples of the "heavy repression" inflicted on Japanese society.
 

DoctorP

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mash27 said:
Their army is also the best equiped in the world, even ahead of the US but for obvious reasons smaller in size and influence.

How in the world do you make this assumption? They supply their military with castoff equipment from other countries. They are using missile systems that the US was using in the 70's!


It's also a heirachical society so some elements of respect and honor are omnipresent. THey have they own view of what is moral and respectful and that's just fine. Who are we to impose our western view on them.

Forced respect is not respect!
 

mash27

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CC1 said:
How in the world do you make this assumption? They supply their military with castoff equipment from other countries. They are using missile systems that the US was using in the 70's!


U obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

read this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,968845,00.html

"Japan famously has one of the best equipped but least useful armies in the world. This is because its military power is deliberately entangled in a constitutional net designed to avoid any repeat of the adventurism that led to the invasion of China in 1937 and the assault on Pearl Harbor in 1941."


this: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/04/04/1048962932191.html

"With an annual defence budget of $US31 billion ($51.5 billion), Japan has assembled one of the best-equipped militaries - pointedly described as "self-defence forces" - in the world."


this: http://www.glocom.org/special_topics/us_report/20040603_usreport_s13/index.html

"Japan has reluctantly complied and its forces represent one of the best equipped in the world. However, the barriers to becoming a "normal" nation go far beyond criteria related to military hardware and naturally imply a revision of its pacific constitution"


this: http://japanfocus.org/article.asp?id=095

"Politically a minnow on the world stage, Japan is potentially a military giant. The world's second largest economy boasts an army of 238,000 who are probably the best-equipped troops in the planet outside of the US, thanks to Japan's fifty-year alliance with Washington."


Forced respect is not respect!

Life on earth is hierachical in nature. Human and animal societies form hierachies based on a variety of factors.

Western societies are also hierachical except that no one admits it openly and instead prefer to hide the facts behind hypocritical slogans of "Equality for all", "equal rights", "equal opportunities" etc... The Japanese in this area are less hypocritical and admit the basic fact that society is arrangned in a hierachy.

The world has rich and poor, smart and dumb, ugly and handsom, strong and weak and all the in betweens. Individuals arrange themselves according to their individual potentialities and circumstances to form large social bodies were everyone strives for what he can reasonably achieve. in the process the less able or competent get weeded out by a ruthless sytem aimed at preserving the well constitued at the expense of the less well constitued. Don't blame me, blame monther nature, god or the council of the 7 celestial monkeys, or just accept the fact and move on with your life.

Repecting one's elders and seniors has nothing to do with being forced, it's simply a matter of decency. In Japan the whole process is simply more formal and codified in behaviour and language.
 

nice gaijin

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mash27 said:
this forum seems to have a lot of disenchanted people with a "wait and you'll see" attitude about Japan. I think that everyone develops their own impressions about countries. Some people get disillusioned with Japan while others don't.
A sense of "disenchantment," preceded by a sense of "enchantment," is usually the result of first-hand experience that dispels those myths that led to the original infatuation with the subject at hand. If I had to choose between the two, my choice would be the former. However, I generally try to be objective and avoid identifying with either the things I find positive or negative about Japan (or anything for that matter).

mash27 said:
Please give me specific examples of the "heavy repression" inflicted on Japanese society.
Rigid gender and social roles is a good start. There's also the concept that a good worker is a worker who looks busy. The average working family man's life at the office is detrimental to his life at home. Divorce is generally considered disgraceful to all parties involved, especially the wife and children, which only keeps unhappy marriages together. Bullying is a common problem, which leads to children who refuse to go to school, and even more extreme are the hikikomori who refuse to interact with other people. That should be enough examples for now.

I think you misunderstood me; I'm not interpreting things in terms of repression, I'm trying to, as you say, understand the context from which such issues arise instead of labelling the results.
 

mash27

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Rigid gender and social roles is a good start.

The other side of rigid gender roles is a society where men become increasingly feminized while women become increasingly masculine. This is what is happening in the west and believe me it ain't pretty.

Men and women are very different, men have their needs and unique adaptations and women have theirs. However The west has been brainwashed by feminist discourse for the last 200 years into forgeting the most basic facts about males and females and the nature of their relation. I won't go into this since u can google it but women are better suited than any man to raise children. They have soft round bodies, breats and a maternal instinct. Men have none of that. Men on the other hand are better at visualizing space and have superior mathematical capabilites. In general humour, creativity and intellectual achievement are the realm of man ( not becuase women were excluded as feminsits would have u believe) but because men are by nature more competitive and driven (more testosterone and the need to compete with other males in order to mate with the females).

look around you and u will notice that the best composers (women can play insturments with virtuosity but can't compose), writters, chefs, scientists, philosophers, engineers are all men. On the other hand women who enter these fields are rarely attractive becuase they tend to be masculine in apearance. Look at Margarette Thatcher. Has any man every fantasiesed about her? Or have u ever been turned on by a woman who was a philosopher, mathematician or mechanical enginneer? Any woman who enters these fields does so at the expense of her feminity.

THerefore from this prespective, the gender situation in Japan where men are men and women are women seems more attractive to me. And it's is also better for the women who don't have to juggle with 3 roles like western women who have to be men in the office, wives with their husbands and monthers with their children. Women have lost rather than gained from feminism which is essentially a reactive man hateing movement.


There's also the concept that a good worker is a worker who looks busy.

In the west too.


The average working family man's life at the office is detrimental to his life at home. Divorce is generally considered disgraceful to all parties involved, especially the wife and children, which only keeps unhappy marriages together.

In the west divorce is not a walk in the park either and many professional men also get very little time with their wife and kids. My Brother is a doctor is Switzerland and gets home at 7 or 8 and barely has the time to see his kid. This has more to do with life in general and captialism to a certain extent rather than Japan.


Bullying is a common problem, which leads to children who refuse to go to school, and even more extreme are the hikikomori who refuse to interact with other people. That should be enough examples for now.


Bullying exists everywhere. Wherever spineless whussies are present, bullies will be around the corner. It's the Job of parents to make sure they raise strong confident children who can take care of themselves at school.

Japan has hikikomori and North america has EMO's, starwars geeks and other varieties of degenerate people. All societies have these issues in one form or another.
 

Mike Cash

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mash27 said:
look around you and u will notice that the best composers (women can play insturments with virtuosity but can't compose), writters, chefs, scientists, philosophers, engineers are all men.

I take it, then, that you are a woman?
 

leonmarino

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Mike Cash said:
I take it, then, that you are a woman?
Oh Mike Cash san.. Your posts are always a pleasure to read.. So subtle, yet so clear in content.. 😍

I was going to write a post but after about 15 minutes of thinking, typing and re-typing, and the realisation that is has probably no use and it does not add any value to this thread and the understanding of some people, I gave up.
 

nice gaijin

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mash27 said:
The other side of rigid gender roles is a society where men become increasingly feminized while women become increasingly masculine. This is what is happening in the west and believe me it ain't pretty.
Actually, this is also what is happening in Japan. I have heard a lot of young Japanese women complain about how effeminate Japanese men are these days, and there are a lot of very feminine, frail-looking male celebrities in Japan. It was actually quite startling the first few times I saw such men, as it certainly doesn't mesh with the western conception of physical prowess equals virility and manliness.

Men and women are very different, men have their needs and unique adaptations and women have theirs. However The west has been brainwashed by feminist discourse for the last 200 years into forgeting the most basic facts about males and females and the nature of their relation. I won't go into this since u can google it but women are better suited than any man to raise children. They have soft round bodies, breats and a maternal instinct. Men have none of that. Men on the other hand are better at visualizing space and have superior mathematical capabilites. In general humour, creativity and intellectual achievement are the realm of man ( not becuase women were excluded as feminsits would have u believe) but because men are by nature more competitive and driven (more testosterone and the need to compete with other males in order to mate with the females).
I understand that you're a fan of Nietzsche, you really don't need to explain all this to respond to a comment about rigid gender roles. In fact, I'm not even saying that gender roles are unnatural or wrong, but that it's important for women to be able to choose their own destiny, rather than have society dictate it for them. The Japanese workplace is so stratified that the OL are in a category of their own, exempt from any real form of upward movement in the company, as they are all expected to quit after a few years to settle down and become housewives. To many, this is not such a bad fate, but there are those who are frustrated by this system of discrimination. That is what I mean by rigid gender roles. I'm not arguing that men and women are the same, but that we shouldn't try to prescribe everyone's fate because of their sex.

Or have u ever been turned on by a woman who was a philosopher, mathematician or mechanical enginneer? Any woman who enters these fields does so at the expense of her feminity.
are you saying that women who are smart or career-oriented can't be attractive?

THerefore from this prespective, the gender situation in Japan where men are men and women are women seems more attractive to me...
As I said above, the situation in Japan is not necessarily what you might think it is, especially in the younger generations.

There's also the concept that a good worker is a worker who looks busy.
In the west too.
I think I've addressed that point elsewhere in this thread.

In the west divorce is not a walk in the park either and many professional men also get very little time with their wife and kids. My Brother is a doctor is Switzerland and gets home at 7 or 8 and barely has the time to see his kid. This has more to do with life in general and captialism to a certain extent rather than Japan.
You say this is about capitalism, but this relates to my earlier point about "busy workers," and the aforementioned topics of efficiency already covered in the thread. Salary men are not required, but so heavily pressured that they are strongly obligated to stay several hours past "quitting time," and afterwards have other engagements they are obliged to attend, such as going out with their seniors. Many of these men do not get home until late at night or early in the morning, or simply stay at a capsule hotel or some similar lodging. Some companies actually require workers to move closer to the office, away from their families. As I said, for salaried men, office life is especially detrimental to home life. It might also interest you to know that it's almost always the man who receives custody of the children in divorce; the wife will usually return to her own family, if they'll let her.

Bullying exists everywhere. Wherever spineless whussies are present, bullies will be around the corner. It's the Job of parents to make sure they raise strong confident children who can take care of themselves at school.
Japan has hikikomori and North america has EMO's, starwars geeks and other varieties of degenerate people. All societies have these issues in one form or another.
You have made so many comparisons to the west, I'm starting to think that you aren't interested in examining Japan in its own context at all...
 

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List of female composers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_composers
Quite a wide range from the 9th centruy up to the 21st

On philosophy
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article299061.ece
http://www.philosophos.com/knowledge_base/archives_9/philosophy_questions_934.html
http://www.fjkluth.com/philo.html for a list of Classical female philosophers

Female scientists:
http://www.factmonster.com/spot/whmbios2.html
In fact when someone says mention a famous female scientist I automatically think of Marie Curie

Female Inventors/engineers:
http://inventors.about.com/library/blwomeninventors.htm

Female writers:
I'm not even going to put up a list because there are so many. The Bronte sisters, Jane Austin, George Eliot, J.K.Rowling, Mary Shelley, Aphra Behn, Virginia Woolfe, Catherine Cookson, Hrotsvitha (10th century. Refered to as the first German poet), Murasaki Shikibu-The Tales of Genji, reconised as one of the first novels ever written. The list is endless

Female Chefs:
Mrs Beaton, whose cookbook is a bible amoung many chefs. Delia Smith, very well known English chef, both in books and on TV. Harumi Kurihara, Japanese chef, I've even got her book. Madhur Jaffery, Indian cook, well known in Britain. In fact when I look at my cookbooks most of them have been written by women.

I suggest before you make such sweeping comments on the 'lack' of famous women in various positions that you do a little research. Google is great for this.
 

mash27

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I suggest before you make such sweeping comments on the 'lack' of famous women in various positions that you do a little research. Google is great for this.

I didn't say there's a lack of famous women, I just said I believe that in areas that require intellect and creativity, men tend to excel over women. We live in a feminist age and and I'm tired of hearing the same nonsense all the time. The fact that there are a few women who are philosophers doesn't mean anything. In the list the u posted not a single one of them has been influential in any way, they where just exceptions among females, and poor ones at that.


"It is not that they inherently lack a talent or aptitude for philosophy or higher mathematics, but rather that they are more unwilling than men to devote their lives to a frigid space from which the natural and the human have been eliminated."


This vew of philosophy betrays total ignorance of what it truly is. But that is beside the point.

If women are "unwilling" to live in a so called "frigid" space where the "human" has been eliminated then this amounts to saying that the realms of intellect, science, creativity and abstract thinking are not for them becuase it goes against their natural incliniations, which are being in a warm "non-abstract" place where the human is ever present, or in other words in a family with children. It is with abstract thought and organized thinking that women have a problem and in their own vocabulary they call it "frigid space where the human is eliminated".


Thus my point is proven that the traditional division of roles among genders is based on natural affinities, adaptations and inclinations possessed by the sexes.

If u read my previous post carefully u would have noticed that i said that women who enter these fields usually sacrfice their feminity or are not femmine to start with. The world of intellect and abstract thought is masculine in nature and feminine women are not attracted to it.

Conversly, when men enter areas such as secreterial workl, nursing, hair dressing they do so at the expense of their masculinity and they are usually gay. Look around u and u will start to realize that this is fact, not opinion.
 

Mycernius

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mash27 said:
If u read my previous post carefully u would have noticed that i said that women who enter these fields usually sacrfice their feminity or are not femmine to start with. The world of intellect and abstract thought is masculine in nature and feminine women are not attracted to it.
Conversly, when men enter areas such as secreterial workl, nursing, hair dressing they do so at the expense of their masculinity and they are usually gay. Look around u and u will start to realize that this is fact, not opinion.
Into sterotypes aren't you. Most male hairdressers and nurses I know are not gay. Yet I know gay managers, bouncers etc. I don't think that a lot of female writers have scarificed their feminity for their careers.
 

nice gaijin

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we're drifting; this thread is not about gender roles, especially not our western perceptions of them.
 

yukio_michael

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This thread has it all: grave-misinformation, self imposed race-hating, and the overal exhaltation of the Japanese as a somewhat other-worldly, kinder, smarter, & better group of people we should all naturally long to become.
 
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