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How do you think of today's China?

innerfire

後輩
8 Aug 2005
102
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Any comments will be appreciated, including dislike.

Please do not simply say "I like China" or "I hate China". Please reason your points.

Thanks in advance.
 
Personally, I look at China with an extremely critical light.
Its own human rights record is attrocious, its a Totalitarian system that uses naked force to achieve its means, such as in Tibet and Tiennamen Square, and is clearly using military force to bully a fully functioning democracy, Taiwan. However what really takes the cake is its clear support for some of the world's most depraved despots, especially in Africa. The recent visit of Zimbabwe's Robert Mugabe to Beijing right after that leader's destruction of several thousand homes of the poorest members of his society is morally reprehensable. However this is only matched by Beijing's willingness to use its veto to prevent the UN from acting on the situation in Sudan, a veritable Genocide, because of Oil interests in that country. Furthermore China is the worlds largest arms merchant to the third world, often suppling arms to factions within collapsed states, which just makes those situations far worse.
 
I might not be the best person to offer my view as I have had a long-term interest in both the Chinese people, the language, and culture. But since there is no such thing as a perfectly neutral view I might as well offer my two RMB.

As for the people, my interaction with a Chinese person was outstandingly positive. I found them genuine, willing to share their ideas and feelings, and was very forthcoming in every way. I was in school with Chinese instructors, classmates, teaching assisitants, but other people that I met were also quite approachable and friendly. I am happy to have shared the time and experience with them, and they enriched my life in unique, personal ways.

As for the langauge, well it's just a language that's used for communicating. I liked the experience of learning, and communicating, translating, analysing. I think the language and script are fascinating subjects to study.

As for culture; that is quite broad a subject. I like the food, the innovations carried out successfully by Modern China. I admire the various local varieties of Chinese societies in their own right. I like the Taiwanese for their deligence, frugality, and high regard for Buddhist studies that I thought had long disappeared. I like Beijingers for their flexibility and grace as well as the high level of scholarship (not exclusively, but more concentrated). I've found the people of Shandong very genuine and friendly; it might have to do with the fact that Shandong was one major area of ancient Shang, the birthplace of Confucius; where the ancient people of Ji and Lu lived; there one would find the famous Taishan, and the pyramid of Shaohu.

I don't know much about inner China, inner Mongolia (I met one nice guy from there), Xinjiang, Xizang (I met one family from there), or the provinces south of the Yangzi River although I passed thru once. The cultural and ethnic diversity is definitely something that makes travel/study in China encouraging.

Although China may not be representative of all of east Asia, it is a huge part of it. The great number of cultures, old history, and people defintely make it a place to have something for everyone if one is willing to see the beauty in it.
 
Oh I should say I agree with most of what lexico said about the people I have met have been overwhelmingly positive. I took the question more as a political one since this forum is more dedicated to political matters.
 
Well, since China wants to become an economic superpower by adopting Capitalism, I don't think it makes much sense for them to even be called Communist a nation. Or at least according to several economic theories it doesn't make sense. But after reading stories about the Cultural Revolution I believe this could be a thing in some ways. :p Goodness, so much irony 😊
 
I've been wondering about certian things since China has opened itself up to the world. For one, such as alternative lifestyles and among other things. Basically what I'm asking is, what changes has occured since China decided to be an economic superpower? What kind of issues have been that haven't been raised in the past? I saw a documentary on how this big decision has also had an impact on the China's mentality?
 
Politically I'm not a very big fan of China. I find the government to be rather barbaric at times to achieve their goals. That's not to say that the United States or any other world power hasn't done the same, but China's record is by far the worse and continues to rise in some instances with government controlled corportations trying to overthrow and drive out rual area farmers for chemical plants. I also find that China's involvement in the globial scale to be a double edged sword. On the good side China's rise in its economy is helping the world around. However, call it a useless fear if you will, I find China's bid for buying out American corporations to be very serious.

On one hand I can see China needing the essential resources to help its growing economy. However, China will then have control over American and foreign interest, and considering the current government in place it's not hard to see China hanging the world by its balls so to speak. I see it as a threat of national security and globial security in some instances to let China buy these corporations. As for Ma Cherie's comment on the irony of a communist government with capitalism I would to like to make a comment on that. Russia was in a similar situation during the Cold War, but soon fell to complete communism, and today is considered a democracy. With that in mind I think China's ambition to stay a totalitarian government with capitalist ideas won't last long.

If China is lucky, it might be able to survive from having a civil war, and could shape into a democratic government so to speak. What I'm trying to say is that having capitalism and communist ideas together will eventually ruin the country in the end, rather than helping if we take a look into the effect of what happened to Russia. Not only that, but China spends a lot of its money on the military much like Russia, which also a warning sign of a not immediate, but eventual sprial downfall. Unless the government is reformed in later years, I don't see China lasting long as a global superpower. I'm also sure there are a lot of Chinese people who are not happy with the current government, and from what I read in the news the trend is growing. Who knows, maybe a new government will be put into place even during my lifetime. I guess only the future holds that answer.

I'm also deeply concerned with American corporations investing heavily in China. Sure it's good for China, but it's also bad for us. Foreign outsourcing is actually more of a sort term effect with gaining money than it is with long term. As a matter of fact, Americans lose more jobs than they do gaining them when stuff like this happens. However, when things get cheaper, new industries are created and new jobs are created, so there is a positive spin on the most negative of immedate actions. However, because things are made cheaper in China there has been an alarming trend in health issues that must be looked at as well.

Lately countries that have been getting glasses, dishes, and various other dinningware have had lead based paint put on them. Cases of lead poisioning in this country has also gone up. With this in mind I believe that if countries should continue to support China they need to step up their regulations on the quality of products in their own respective countries, but also in China as well. Not only would it help prevent needless death, but would continue to help the global economy going strong without somebody waving a red flag and halting imports into their country. I see a potiental growth in the globial economy in the future because of China, but I also see the need of better regulations to be put into place as well. Playing it safe can actually be more of a benefit rather than a costly endevor as large corporations will tell you.

As for China and it's people, I think Lexico pretty much summed up my feelings towards that issue. I find the culture, food, language, and it's people all very facinating. I'm also rather envious that Chinese scholars are better than American or even British scholars. I honestly think with the Chinese emphasis on education that we all (any major western country) could learn from them. So overall I really just have a beef with the government, as well as, certain safety and health concerns when it comes to manufacture, regulation, and trade with China and other world powers. Other than that I find China to be a facinating country I can hopefully one day visit. ^___^

Doc
 
I agree with some of your points, Doc. Yes, I do understand your feelings about outsourcing. I don't think at the moment China has the potential to be a major economic superpower, for one China is still in the rudimentary stages of capitalism. In a way, I kind of think China is kind of rushing the whole thing. For example, when automobiles were first being produced in China, I guess they wanted to hurry up and learn how to produce them and I don't think the latest technology was being used, which caused high levels of pollution. But at any rate, developing into a true economic superpower takes time.
 
Doc said:
As for China and it's people, I think Lexico pretty much summed up my feelings towards that issue. I find the culture, food, language, and it's people all very facinating. I'm also rather envious that Chinese scholars are better than American or even British scholars. I honestly think with the Chinese emphasis on education that we all (any major western country) could learn from them. So overall I really just have a beef with the government, as well as, certain safety and health concerns when it comes to manufacture, regulation, and trade with China and other world powers. Other than that I find China to be a facinating country I can hopefully one day visit. ^___^

Doc
Thank you Doc for your insight. I agree with you mostly. Yeah, "only the future holds that answer." Anyway, I'm suprised that you know so much about China.
Wow, if you decide to visit China please let me know. I'll be proud to be your guide.
 
Ma Cherie said:
I agree with some of your points, Doc. Yes, I do understand your feelings about outsourcing. I don't think at the moment China has the potential to be a major economic superpower, for one China is still in the rudimentary stages of capitalism. In a way, I kind of think China is kind of rushing the whole thing. For example, when automobiles were first being produced in China, I guess they wanted to hurry up and learn how to produce them and I don't think the latest technology was being used, which caused high levels of pollution. But at any rate, developing into a true economic superpower takes time.

Then you understand my points about Russia correct? That's how I feel China is going with that direction. They're in such a rush to create resources in a quick amount of time to be like the rest of the G8 nations, that I think they might end up shooting themselves in the foot if they continue the current trend. Like you said it takes time, but considering where the Chinese government is coming from, and their grasp on such rudimentary concepts of capitalism, it might just make things worse off for China then being better.

Doc
 
Doc said:
Then you understand my points about Russia correct? That's how I feel China is going with that direction. They're in such a rush to create resources in a quick amount of time to be like the rest of the G8 nations, that I think they might end up shooting themselves in the foot if they continue the current trend. Like you said it takes time, but considering where the Chinese government is coming from, and their grasp on such rudimentary concepts of capitalism, it might just make things worse off for China then being better.

Doc

Personally I think our government has learned a lot from Russia in 1991 and also from domestic crisis in 1989. It has grown more mature today. Yep the government did come from Communism, but Communism is less and less mentioned these years in China. Instead, the new word is "Harmonious Society", which has become a new beacon for the new generation. Just like westerners' worship of God, that may be our worship. And all problems we are facing now are not that abnormal comparing to similar rudimentary period of capitalism of all western countries. So generally I think China is still promising.

Thank you.
 
innerfire said:
Personally I think our government has learned a lot from Russia in 1991 and also from domestic crisis in 1989. It has grown more mature today. Yep the government did come from Communism, but Communism is less and less mentioned these years in China. Instead, the new word is "Harmonious Society", which has become a new beacon for the new generation. Just like westerners' worship of God, that may be our worship. And all problems we are facing now are not that abnormal comparing to similar rudimentary period of capitalism of all western countries. So generally I think China is still promising.

Thank you.

I never said that it didn't. As far as I can tell, China could become a very prosperous country given the right amount of time and effort. I'm just saying there are a few key elements mostly pointed towards the government that you need to watch out for. I'm not saying that China hasn't learned from Russia's mistakes, but what I am saying is that the type of government you have now mix with capitalism creates sort of a double standard that can either make or break China depending on how the country develops later on down the road. You will most definitely need governmental change, or at least new policies and regulations later on to really get the ball going, but what you have done so far has be sufficant. Still as I said before it takes time and change for things to fully work well, and only the future holds the result of those changes.

Doc
 
Ma Cherie said:
"Harmonous Society" How did this blossom? How is this change affecting China?

As far as I know, "Harmonious Society" refer to a society similar to that of the US today but a little bit more regulated. Maybe it's a less-ideological version of the so called "Communism". The government may want people forget about the word "Communism" but it may be cruel to the elder. So why not do it step by step. Personlly I think this may bring China on the right track to the brighter future.
 
I'm really interested in how capitalism is changing traditional Chinese beliefs. I've always read stories of how the Chinese place emaphsis on taking care of your parents when they're old. But does this still apply in today's society or is it slowly fading away?
 
Not to insult you or anything innerfire, but to many people in the Western countries having China call itself "The People Republic" is considered more of punchline to its own government than anything. I mean it's still a totalitarian system, and hardly considered "the People's Republic". However, as I said before it seems that the unrest for China's people is starting to grow, and the changes with the government are starting to happen even if it's slow. Like you said, if change continues China has a very bright future ahead of itself. Let's just hope that future stays on track, and doesn't end in a civil war. 😌

Doc
 
Ma Cherie said:
I'm really interested in how capitalism is changing traditional Chinese beliefs. I've always read stories of how the Chinese place emaphsis on taking care of your parents when they're old. But does this still apply in today's society or is it slowly fading away?

Mostly, the tradition "taking care of your parents" has not changed up to now. But the reality is: with the 1 child policy since late 1970's, it will not be very long time before most young people in this country each have 2 elders (his/her parents) to take care of. That's a pretty big pressure. But fortunately the society innsurance system is taking shape recent years and would be full functional shortly, which may help a lot. But mentally, the tradition will not change.
 
Doc said:
Not to insult you or anything innerfire, but to many people in the Western countries having China call itself "The People Republic" is considered more of punchline to its own government than anything. I mean it's still a totalitarian system, and hardly considered "the People's Republic". However, as I said before it seems that the unrest for China's people is starting to grow, and the changes with the government are starting to happen even if it's slow. Like you said, if change continues China has a very bright future ahead of itself. Let's just hope that future stays on track, and doesn't end in a civil war. 😌

Doc

It's OK Doc. As for "The People Republic", you should understand that it's a result of history. Whatever China is now, its name is not subject to vary, I think.

And thank you for your kind bless on my country. I'll do my best for it.
 
innerfire said:
Mostly, the tradition "taking care of your parents" has not changed up to now. But the reality is: with the 1 child policy since late 1970's, it will not be very long time before most young people in this country each have 2 elders (his/her parents) to take care of. That's a pretty big pressure. But fortunately the society innsurance system is taking shape recent years and would be full functional shortly, which may help a lot. But mentally, the tradition will not change.

Sounds like that particular tradition is similar to Japan's mentality on marriage. I wonder, do you think that tradition will continue if China grows in its economy. Let's say in 25 years China eventually becomes a democracy, and full fledged capitalist nation that later becomes part of the G8 nations. Do you think that sort of tradition of taking care of your parents will still be in effect, or do you think it will change much like other values will?

Doc
 
Yeah, I was wondering the same thing Doc. I mean of course, whenever a new form of government and a new economic system takes place the mentality of a country is likely to change as well.
 
Well, lots of things can occur. For one, issues that haven't been raised before may begin to come into light. Another thing is, will Chinese people become more career orientated? (Yes, I know I'm just asking all sorts of questions) 😌 :sorry: What social values are changing, like are people beginning to believe that making money is important? Personally, I don't think it'll be too much of a bad thing, of course there are some cons. Beijing and Shangai from what I hear have shown great changes in modern development and people from rural citites move to places like Beijing to look for new oppertunities, jobs, and better lives for themselves. Which raises an issue about social class (at least in my opinion it does). What's the attitude towards "migrant workers" from people who live fairly comfortable lives in Beijing and Shangai.

This is a very complex situation as you know. This is my favorite aspect of economics is how certian economic systems affect people in a pyschological way. I feel that in general people who live in countries with capitalism tend to take things for granted and are more materialistic. At any rate, I just want to know have you noticed any changes that has occurred? 😊 :)
 
If anything I would like to see how China's military prospers over the next decade or so.
After all, the military might still plays an important role, even in todays society.
How China handles it's military power could shape international relations in the future.
Certainly, if China happens to eventually harbor a larger army, then say that of the US.
That is, if it isn't already bigger.
 
Hey Ma Cherie,

It's OK. Yes I've noticed some of the social problems occured since market economy was introduced to China, eg. a high Gini coefficient, misconducts of sanitary facilities (due to profit-oriented and short-sighted managements), laid-off workers, etc. I'm ready to let you learn more about them.

And I agree that mental impacts must be noticed when we talking about any economy system. That's right!

One thing I want to point out: As agreed widely in economists that a country would encounter severe social problems (8 catagories according to RAND's analysis) when it reachs a GDP per capita of 1000 USD. Then if it uccessfully get through them, it would boost at an even faster rate, just like the US and Japan did. But if it failed to get through, it would be stumbled at that point and be sooner of later depleted by those problems, like some countries in South America did.

As you know China has just reached its 1000 USD point. So I'm not surprised, but never overlooking, at these problems occured nowadays. Personally I think democracy is better than centralization in most cases, but except in current case. I'll show you but one reason for saying that: If an immature "Democracy" applied now, China would have been in by far more severe disturbance already, which we can not afford at all, and then China becomes another loser after the Latin American countries. Democracy takes time to take shape, but not now.

But when? I think it's a time that we come to a GDP per capita of 3000 USD. At that point, entire people have become fairly rich materially. They would begin, very natually, to seek for a better structure of their society, better protection of environment, etc. There is an evidence for what I say: Areas that have reached 3000 USD now in China, such as Shanghai, have already shown their zeal in democratic society, environment protection to achieve the "Harmonious Society".

Thank you Ma Cherie for your kind concern about my country!
 
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