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Honorific verbs

dhmkhkk

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A quick question about keigo... The rule says: if you are talkig about your sensei in a progressive way (~ています), you should substitute it for ~ていらっしゃいます.

1. 何を書いていらっしゃるんですか。

So, how about this one:
2. 「blabla」と行っています = 「blabla」とおっしゃっています。 Why not とおっしゃっていらっしゃいます?

Another unrelated question abou sentence 1: doesn't んです have a hint of familiarity? Isn't it rude to say it in this form to a sensei? I know んです has an explanatory meaning behind, but I get a feeling it's being used a lot in casual conversation so that's why I assumed it can only be used among friends.
 

Toritoribe

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2)
Typo: it's 言っています, not 行っています.
It's called 二重敬語. You don't need to change います into いらっしゃいます since you already use the honorific おっしゃる. Notice that 書いて is not honorific in 書いていらっしゃいます. (cf. お書きになっています.)


Not really. There is no problem to say, for instance, おっしゃってるんですが.
 

dhmkhkk

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Thanks for such a fast reply 🙂: And sorry for the typo :/ Could you also clarify something else for me:

1. So, people like never ever use e.g. おっしゃっていらっしゃいます?

2. In 書いていらっしゃいます the second part is honorific, in おっしゃっています - the first. Does it matter which part is honorific or can I choose it freely? Can I say お書きになっています and 言っていらっしゃいます?
 

Toritoribe

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1)
Right. 二重敬語 is considered the wrong use of honorific in modern Japanese, except some idiomatically accepted expressions such like お召し上がりになる (召し上がる "honorific verb of 食べる" + honorific form "お the -masu stem になる") or お伺いする (伺う "humble verb of 行く/聞く" + humble form "お the -masu stem する"). Incidentally, in classical Japanese, 二重敬語 is an indicator to show that the subject is a person of exalted rank such like imperial family members without mentioning their name or title directly.

2)
Generally, special honorific/humble verbs are more respectful than honorific/humble form of verbs, thus, おっしゃっています is often preferred than 言っていらっしゃいます. As for 書いていらっしゃいます and お書きになっています, both can be used.
 

dhmkhkk

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Could you please also help me with the understanding of this passage: (a guide is telling this to tourists in Kyoto)

- その後、南禅寺に参ります。南禅寺をご覧になった時、「みやび」というレストランで昼ご飯にいたしま。

So the guide is talking about the same group of people, including him. But first he uses 参ります - humble form, then ご覧になる (honorific) and then the humble いたしま again. Why does he/she mix it up?
 

Toritoribe

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いたしま is incomplete. It must be いたしま.
The subjects are different. The guide and tourists will go to Nanzen-ji together, and take lunch there with them, so the subject is "we". However, only the tourists will observe the temple, so the subject is "you". Of course the guide will be also at the temple with the tourists, but he won't observe it. If いらっしゃいます and なさいます are used instead of 参ります and いたします, respectively, it sounds like only the tourists will go to the temple and take lunch without the guide.
Another interpretation that 参る shows the respect to the temple is also valid. In fact, お寺に参る works perfectly fine as a common collocation.
 

dhmkhkk

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Oops, I don't know how I lost the す... :/

Thank you. So, even if I take myself together with honored people (like, guests), I still use the humble form いたします? Does it always work like that or only with eating out?
 

Toritoribe

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いたします is a humble form of します. It's used there since it's a humble form of a set phrase ご飯にする.
As for guests, unlike customers, ご飯にいたします sounds too polite. The polite invitation ご飯にしましょう would be more common.
 
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