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help with interpretation

letslearn

先輩
11 Sep 2013
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Hi all, I'm trying to understand a line in a book.
A father and daughter are walking at night and are haunted by the "かまいたち" the following line is...

長屋の向かいに越してきた目つきの鋭い男新吉は、目撃 者のおようを追ってきたかまいたちなのか

I'm having trouble with 目撃者のおようを追ってきた

Does this mean "the witness oyou gave chase"?

I get the feeling the whole sentence is....

Shinkichi with a steely gaze moved to the other end of the Nagoya ( Edo period row house), witnessing this oyou gave chase, is that the kamaitachi?

よろしくお願いします
 
I think you're getting lost in the phrases and clauses and whatnot.

長屋の向かいに越してきた目つきの鋭い男 {新吉} {は}、目撃者のおようを追ってきた {かまいたちなのか}

Stripped, it reads 新吉はかまいたちなのか

The first bit modifies/describes 新吉 and the last bit modifies/describes かまいたち, so the core of the sentence is "Could it be that Shinkichi is the kamaitachi?" or some different wording that amounts to the same thing.

長屋 is "nagaya", not "Nagoya", by the way.

I would think of 向かい as "across from"

"Could it be that the sharp-eyed Shinkichi who had moved across from the row house was the kamaitachi who had chased (or followed) the witness Oyou?"

Find your core first, note what phrases modify what bits, then tack it all together.

Note that your translation has two actions taking place....not as modifiers but as regular standalone actions....then awkwardly tries to tie it all together with a modal verb construction at the end. Your last bit was in track; your error came in treating the verbs as independent actions rather than placing them in modifying clauses.

Also note:

目撃者 = witness....NOUN
目撃する = witness....VERB
 
Hi mikesan,
Now I see why you were upset, I typed out a response to this yesterday, I'm not sure why it did not get posted. I really should have made sure.

What I said was that I made a typo for Nagaya. Also thanks for explaining 目撃者のおよう. With 目撃者 = witness....NOUN
目撃する = witness....VERB.
I also missed that pesky little を which when reading your response makes a lot more sense.

No wonder you were angry, I will double check from now on, it really was not my intention to be so rude.
Sorry.
 
So you understand how to spot and interpret modifying clauses now and have questions about that?
 
Not fully,
I still have problems finding the subject of the sentence when it is assumed from previous sentences.
Like the mentioned sentence..

you have the topic which is 新吉.
the subject かまいたち
and the object 目撃者のおよう the witness oyou.

the subject is not marked by が as it is assumed from the previous sentence (Or should be ha ha)

also it is it has an relative clause before as well describing the subject 目撃 者のおようを追ってきたかまいたち

It was great how you simplified it as 新吉はかまいたちなのか. I will try and use that method in the future.
 
First, go through and note all nouns. Then look for the presence of verbs before them. If you find one, you're looking at a modifying clause. These take the form of embedded sentences (and remember that a Japanese sentence may sometimes be no more than a verb). This is usually the source of confusion when learners ask about a sentence with multiple が or を. These are represented in English by relative clauses. If you don't know what those are, stop now and go read up on them.

Now eliminate those and see what you have left. It should be a much more comprehensible simple sentence.

With that all in mind, go look again at the sentence and see if you can follow along with the process. Actually use various brackets or other visual devices to help you see things; it will help you. Try it on some other sentences as well.

And if I were you, I wouldn't give another thought to all that subject marker, topic marker crap. It just confuses things.

By the way, that sentence doesn't have an object....the modifying clause contains an object. Big difference.
 
Thanks mikesan.
That last statement "By the way, that sentence doesn't have an object....the modifying clause contains an object. Big difference."
really highlights the difficulties.
 
This is one of the most important and most useful new things you're going to encounter in your Japanese studies, so take the time to work on it and get a good understanding of it. There is no one other thing which will do quite so much to broaden your ability to express and comprehend more complex ideas than are covered by the simple

A は B です

or

X が Y を する

type sentences that we start out with.

Again, if you're not real familiar with the function of relative clauses in English then go bone up on them as a clear understanding of them will make their Japanese counterparts easier to get a handle on.

It looks like you're about to embark on reading a book, and the difference between understanding this and not understanding it is going to be the difference between understanding and enjoying the book and getting hopelessly lost in a mess of gibberish.
 
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