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Have you been taken for an American in Japan ? OFFTOPIC by Americans

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You get used to it, I know we look similar to people from other cultures.
 
I am American, and in my time in Japan, I have been mistaken for being French and Czhechoslovakian.

Also, although it is off-topic, I have been asked for directions in Japanese by a Japanese man while I was in Korea as well.
 
I am American, and in my time in Japan, I have been mistaken for being French and Czhechoslovakian.

How on earth would a Japanese think of asking you if you are Czechoslovak ? (especially it is a nationality that ceased to exist 17 years ago)

While in Japan I have been mistaken hundreds of times for an American (I am not exaggerating), just a few times for a Brit, German or Australian, but never for a Belgian or a Frenchman.

Interestingly I have never been mistaken for an American anywhere in Europe, in Australia, or even in India. Only in Japan ! In other countries people may think I am English, Dutch, Scandinavian or German, and I don't mind because these are all neighbouring countries to which I do feel close.

The Japanese may jump to quickly to the conclusion that a North European is American because Americans have always been the vast majority of Westerners in Japan since the end of WWII. If we count US servicemen stationed in Japan, 50% of all Westerners residing in Japan are American (about 50,000 civilians and 35,000 military). Another 45,000 come from other English-speaking countries. Only 40,000 come from continental Europe (23%). From 1945 to the 1980's the percentage of Americans was much higher. That may explain why so many Japanese see Westerners automatically as Americans.
 
This has really scarred you for life, it would appear.
 
This has really scarred you for life, it would appear.

I had no idea, before coming to Japan, that the country was so much under American influence. It's not just that there are so many Americans in big cities but that American businesses are everywhere. Every neighbourhood in Tokyo has its lot of Denny's, Jonathan's, Subways, Mr Doughnuts, Starbucks, Tully's, McDonald's, KFC's, Wendy's, 7-Eleven, and so on and so forth. I learned a lot about American culture in Japan. I only knew of Starbuck's, McDonald's, KFC's before setting foot in Japan, and of these three only McDonald's exist in Belgium. And that's just a perfunctory presence : 3 McDonald's in Brussels for 1 million inhabitants !

95% of the Japanese I met who worked for foreign companies worked for American companies (because of the legal restrictions on other foreign companies to be allowed to operate in Japan). When I first came to Japan, the only bank with ATM's that accepted foreign cards was Citibank. Even at the financial level being a foreigner in Japan automatically meant having to deal with an American company. To this day no non-American foreign bank is allowed to operate in Japan.

I am not the only European who felt like Japan was the 51st US state. I just wanted to be a European interacting with Japanese people and their culture, not being reminded all the time that the USA and Americans were everywhere and asked how I did things back in America. That's not why I came to Japan. So yes, you could say that it left some scars and degraded my experience in the country.
 
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Every neighbourhood in Tokyo has its lot of Denny's, Jonathan's, Subways, Mr Doughnuts, Starbucks, Tully's, McDonald's, KFC's, Wendy's, 7-Eleven, and so on and so forth.

Ahh yes, the horrors of American influence!

I learned a lot about American culture in Japan.

You have got to be kidding me. And you rag on Japanese people for the simplistic conclusions they draw.

To this day no non-American foreign bank is allowed to operate in Japan.

Umm, pretty sure America has nothing to do with those rules.

I am not the only European who felt like Japan was the 51st US state. I just wanted to be a European interacting with Japanese people and their culture, not being reminded all the time that the USA and Americans were everywhere and asked how I did things back in America. That's not why I came to Japan. So yes, you could say that it left some scars and degraded my experience in the country.

Wow, you truly allowed your dislike of America to ruin your experience here in Japan. Japan has indeed been influenced by America. But Japan is Japan man. It is not America. The people are their own nation and they do things their way. I would think that is something that would have become clear to you after living here for 5 years.
 
I had no idea, before coming to Japan, that the country was so much under American influence. It's not just that there are so many Americans in big cities
Yeah, we're everywhere, taking over the place...even though we represent only about 2.5% of the entire foreign population here (and that doesn't count our boys and girls on military bases).

but that American businesses are everywhere.
As are businesses from other countries.

95% of the Japanese I met who worked for foreign companies worked for American companies (because of the legal restrictions on other foreign companies to be allowed to operate in Japan).
What restriction is that? No other country is allowed to operate any kind of business in Japan? Kinda hard to believe. BMW, Louis Vuitton, Hermes, etc. Perhaps JETRO sent 2,766 surveys to erroneous foreign companies in Japan in 2007. http://www.jetro.go.jp/en/reports/s...rch='foreign pharmaceutical companies japan'
Your slip is showing.

To this day no non-American foreign bank is allowed to operate in Japan.
Then why does Wikipedia list 67 foreign banks in Japan?

I am not the only European who felt like Japan was the 51st US state.
Perhaps, but you certainly seem to have something against the USA here, not Japan. Why is that?

I just wanted to be a European interacting with Japanese people and their culture, not being reminded all the time that the USA and Americans were everywhere and asked how I did things back in America. That's not why I came to Japan. .
Earlier you indicated your peeve was being told not to behave like a Japanese here. So, interact! I would think that being married to a Japanese wife would have given you some insight and advantage into how to live and adapt here for the 5 years you spent in Tokyo. Apparently she is not very traditional...?

As for this "interacting" thing, I have tried to be nice and have repeated asked you to clarify this beef of yours. Yet, you continue to ignore me. Now, I would politely like to ask (again) for you to read my earlier questions and answer them. You are bordering on being labeled a troll.
 
How on earth would a Japanese think of asking you if you are Czechoslovak ? (especially it is a nationality that ceased to exist 17 years ago)
Sorry, I didn't ask. Nonetheless, it happened all the same. Believe me, I was quite unprepared for that.
 
What restriction is that? No other country is allowed to operate any kind of business in Japan? Kinda hard to believe. BMW, Louis Vuitton, Hermes, etc. Perhaps JETRO sent 2,766 surveys to erroneous foreign companies in Japan in 2007. http://www.jetro.go.jp/en/reports/s...rch='foreign pharmaceutical companies japan'
Your slip is showing.

It depends on the activity sector, but Japan restricted operation of foreign companies on its soil as a form of protectionism until a few years ago. The brands you cite (BMW, Louis Vuitton, Hermes, etc.) must have a partnership with a Japanese retailer to sell their products. In other words they cannot sell directly to Japanese customers, so as not to compete too directly with Japanese businesses. That's why famous French and Italian brand clothes and accessories are sold mostly in Japanese-owned department stores or in boutiques managed by a Japanese company. Only American companies are dispensed thanks to the bilateral agreement and US terms at the end of WWII.


Then why does Wikipedia list 67 foreign banks in Japan?

Foreign banks are allowed to keep a foreign relation office in Japan, but not to offer savings/current accounts or sell securities directly to Japanese customers. Again an exception was granted to American banks (CitiBank, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Merryl Lynch...) who all have big offices in Tokyo (I have worked with or know people working in all them, so I should know).

If you disagree, please tell me which non-US foreign bank operates normally in Japan.


Perhaps, but you certainly seem to have something against the USA here, not Japan. Why is that?

Not especially. The only thing I am ranting about is that the overwhelming presence of Americans among Westerners in Japan give a false American image to all Westerners. Because Americans are much more likely to be monolingual, they give the impression that Westerners in Japan rarely speak Japanese.

Americans are also much more likely of exporting their American lifestyle when living abroad than Europeans. It's not just true in Japan, but also in Europe. I see here in Brussels that many relocation companies care almost exclusively to the needs of American expats because they are almost the only ones who need to feel as if they hadn't left the USA. Brussels is the EU capital and NATO headquarters, so there are several thousand Americans, but many time more European expats. I know for being in frequent contact with the expat community here that Americans are the least likely to learn French or Dutch (or even try) and do the less effort to adapt and try to understand the local ways and customs.

It's a well known fact around the world that Americans try to impose their ways rather than learn from others. Why do you think that is constantly the Japanese who have to speak English with their American colleagues or business partners and almost never the other way round ? It's the same in Europe too.

So what I am trying to say is that I tried hard to adapt to Japanese ways from the very moment I arrived in Japan (well, actually preparing a few months before as I didn't want people to laugh at me if I couldn't ask my way around in Japanese), but my efforts were in great part undermined by the Japanese image of the typical American behaviour in Japan, and so treated me as if I was an American. It made it harder for me to integrate because I always needed to explain to new people I met that I wasn't American and that I preferred to speak Japanese than English, that I preferred to eat Japanese food than hamburgers, that I wanted chopsticks and not a fork and knife, that I didn't mind having a menu in Japanese (even if I needed my electronic dictionary at the beginning), that I was ready to make the effort of sitting in seiza position despite my long legs, and that I was also brought up to remove my shoes when entering a house.


Earlier you indicated your peeve was being told not to behave like a Japanese here. So, interact! I would think that being married to a Japanese wife would have given you some insight and advantage into how to live and adapt here for the 5 years you spent in Tokyo. Apparently she is not very traditional...?

As for this "interacting" thing, I have tried to be nice and have repeated asked you to clarify this beef of yours. Yet, you continue to ignore me. Now, I would politely like to ask (again) for you to read my earlier questions and answer them. You are bordering on being labeled a troll.

I am not sure you know it, but I wrote the cultural, language and other section of this website mostly by myself, starting just 6 months after arriving in the country. I mention it because you address me in a condescending manner as if I didn't know anything about Japan and you were here to "teach me".

My wife is quite traditional as Japanese go. We used to live in a traditional house with tatami and fusuma in a shitamachi neighbourhood. The Japanese who know me are constantly impressed at my knowledge of Japan and my level of adaptation to Japanese ways and my understanding of Japanese culture, customs and mindset. You do not seem to understand that my rant is directed towards the Japanese who do not know me, or not well. It is about being perceived by default as an American who doesn't give a damn about behaving in a Japanese way. I blame Americans for that, more than the Japanese. Well, it would obviously be unfair to blame all American residents and visitors to Japan for that. There are always exceptions, but it is only because so many Americans have behaved like this that the Japanese associate it with the way Westerners are. I am sure that they are also Europeans who go to Japan and act as if they were home or expect people to speak to them in their own language and provide them the same food, accommodation or services as they would find "back home", but they are the minority in Europe.
 
People in this thread are constantly derailing the discussion and swaying from the argument first presented and subsequently developed by the OP. I can't seem to understand how the OP's like or dislike of Americans could influence the final outcome of the discussion. He argues that Japan is under a heavy American influence. I don't really see any viable counter-arguments here, only a bunch of people whining and whinging.
 
Not especially. The only thing I am ranting about is that the overwhelming presence of Americans among Westerners in Japan give a false American image to all Westerners. Because Americans are much more likely to be monolingual, they give the impression that Westerners in Japan rarely speak Japanese.

Americans are also much more likely of exporting their American lifestyle when living abroad than Europeans. It's not just true in Japan, but also in Europe. I see here in Brussels that many relocation companies care almost exclusively to the needs of American expats because they are almost the only ones who need to feel as if they hadn't left the USA. Brussels is the EU capital and NATO headquarters, so there are several thousand Americans, but many time more European expats. I know for being in frequent contact with the expat community here that Americans are the least likely to learn French or Dutch (or even try) and do the less effort to adapt and try to understand the local ways and customs.

It's a well known fact around the world that Americans try to impose their ways rather than learn from others. Why do you think that is constantly the Japanese who have to speak English with their American colleagues or business partners and almost never the other way round ? It's the same in Europe too.

So what I am trying to say is that I tried hard to adapt to Japanese ways from the very moment I arrived in Japan (well, actually preparing a few months before as I didn't want people to laugh at me if I couldn't ask my way around in Japanese), but my efforts were in great part undermined by the Japanese image of the typical American behaviour in Japan, and so treated me as if I was an American. It made it harder for me to integrate because I always needed to explain to new people I met that I wasn't American and that I preferred to speak Japanese than English, that I preferred to eat Japanese food than hamburgers, that I wanted chopsticks and not a fork and knife, that I didn't mind having a menu in Japanese (even if I needed my electronic dictionary at the beginning), that I was ready to make the effort of sitting in seiza position despite my long legs, and that I was also brought up to remove my shoes when entering a house.


I blame Americans for that, more than the Japanese. Well, it would obviously be unfair to blame all American residents and visitors to Japan for that. There are always exceptions, but it is only because so many Americans have behaved like this that the Japanese associate it with the way Westerners are. I am sure that they are also Europeans who go to Japan and act as if they were home or expect people to speak to them in their own language and provide them the same food, accommodation or services as they would find "back home", but they are the minority in Europe.

Well, I suppose myself and many of my American friends here who have learned the language and culture are part of your exception minority. Even if it is true that Americans have ruined it for all the other Westerners, how exactly do you think you would have been able to be more accepted by the Japanese, if it was not American influence it would have been Dutch or German or British or whoever (in fact those nations have had a large impact on Japan too). Do you really think the perception of Westerners would be that much different, had it not been for us clumsy Americans destroying the image of the West for everyone else?

You yourself have started threads recently citing how the Chinese treat Western foreigners and how it is similar to the Japanese. Is that because of the huge American influence there too? In reality I think your complaints about American influence in Japan are unfounded, because you most likely would still have found yourself facing the same/similar stereotypes and same barriers in your quest to fit in with the Japanese regardless.
 
I think the bottom line here is that you couldn't convince enough people that you were European, not American, and that you let the chopsticks thing get the best of you.

Blame the Japanese more, not the Americans. After all, it was the J who isolated themselves for 2 centuries.
 
He argues that Japan is under a heavy American influence. I don't really see any viable counter-arguments here, only a bunch of people whining and whinging.
There aren't any counter-arguments. Japan is under such influence.

However, that's only one of his points. He is all over the board whether he wants to say he failed to adapt, or whether his main point is that Americans are to blame for his failure, or whether he can say sociologically/psychologically why Japanese are the way they are with their "weird" behavior, or whatever.

Attempts to get him to pinpoint his concern have failed.
 
You yourself have started threads recently citing how the Chinese treat Western foreigners and how it is similar to the Japanese. Is that because of the huge American influence there too? In reality I think your complaints about American influence in Japan are unfounded, because you most likely would still have found yourself facing the same/similar stereotypes and same barriers in your quest to fit in with the Japanese regardless.

Don't mix up everything. The passages I quoted from Mark Kitto's book China Cuckoo were about people pointing at Westerners (laowai) as if they were attractions, and the Chinese self-consciousness about the use of chopsticks, which is the same as in Japan. But I didn't say anything about Europeans being perceived as Americans in China. I only went on two short trips to China, so my experience won't account for much in the comparison. However I travelled for 3 months around South-East Asia and 6 months in India and was perhaps only asked twice (in Thailand if I recall well) if I was American. In the 8 countries I visited people just asked where I came from instead of saying "Are you American ?" or just assuming I am and ask "how about this or that in America ?" as they often do in Japan.

I only stayed 5 days in South Korea and was mistaken twice for an American ! I suspect that Koreans are pretty much like the Japanese in this regard, because the American influence as big (the percentage of Americans from the total of Westerners is actually higher, I think).

Note that I am not complaining about being called a gaijin in Japan. Although it happens all the time and can be annoying, I have come to accept it as an inevitable part of being a Westerner in Japan (or in East Asia, as the phenomenon is basically the same is other countries). I actually prefer to be called a gaijin than an American. Better be neutral about one's nationality than mistaken. I have realised that the Japanese understand that quite well if you ask them how they feel about being mistaken for Chinese when travelling abroad. I told them I feel something similar about being called an American. It works wonder. :)
 
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Attempts to get him to pinpoint his concern have failed.

You are American so I don't expect you to understand how I feel.

As I wrote in the OP this thread is for Europeans, so please stop arguing pointlessly here.
 
Maciamo,
Now you are are trying to discriminate against posters because of their nationality. Do al Belgians do that? Or just the ones who can't cope in Japan?

You tried.
You failed.
You felt like leaving the whole country (your wife's homeland) just because you felt overwhelmed by being perceived as an American. That is the pointless thing here. I feel sorry for your wife.

Do I understand how you feel? Not completely, no. But on countless occasions I have asked you nicely to explain more, yet you don't. You only harp on the same old lines. More pointlessness. If you want people to understand how you feel, open up a bit more and talk about it. But, stop pointing fingers at the Americans.

1) Your other post began with reasons why people stay in Japan, with the underlying tone of "despite various issues" (namely, yours). You got answers directly related, then segued the whole topic into a rant about America fouling the Japanese nation.

2) You originally sought a deep understanding of why Japanese people act in "weird" ways, yet you avoided the discussion and instead pulled out a gun against Americans as some sort of cause beyond social and psychological.

3) Then, just to be obstinate, you start a new thread directly aimed at what seems to be causing you so much social and psychological grief -- Americans.

I suggest you drop it. If you want productive discussion, drop it.

Oh, one last thing. You say this thread is "for Europeans". Then why are Aussies and Kiwis in the pool, non-Europeans can vote, and you have this at the bottom of the poll?
I am American and want to see the results

(I notice your 4-day-old poll has 2 votes, and they cancel each other out, and 3 Americans have requested to see the data. More curiosity seekers than voters.)
 
Don't mix up everything. The passages I quoted from Mark Kitto's book China Cuckoo were about people pointing at Westerners (laowai) as if they were attractions, and the Chinese self-consciousness about the use of chopsticks, which is the same as in Japan. But I didn't say anything about Europeans being perceived as Americans in China. I only went on two short trips to China, so my experience won't account for much in the comparison. However I travelled for 3 months around South-East Asia and 6 months in India and was perhaps only asked twice (in Thailand if I recall well) if I was American. In the 8 countries I visited people just asked where I came from instead of saying "Are you American ?" or just assuming I am and ask "how about this or that in America ?" as they often do in Japan.

I only stayed 5 days in South Korea and was mistaken twice for an American ! I suspect that Koreans are pretty much like the Japanese in this regard, because the American influence as big (the percentage of Americans from the total of Westerners is actually higher, I think).

Note that I am not complaining about being called a gaijin in Japan. Although it happens all the time and can be annoying, I have come to accept it as an inevitable part of being a Westerner in Japan (or in East Asia, as the phenomenon is basically the same is other countries). I actually prefer to be called a gaijin than an American. Better be neutral about one's nationality than mistaken. I have realised that the Japanese understand that quite well if you ask them how they feel about being mistaken for Chinese when travelling abroad. I told them I feel something similar about being called an American. It works wonder. :)


Maciamo, in my experience yes, I have been assumed to be an American, and I am. But 9 times out of 10, the person usually does the sensible thing, and just asks me where I am from.

So being called an American, or being asked about America... was this like on a daily basis or something? Because it hardly, if ever, happens to me. Or in reality, did it only happen a select few times, but you absolutely could not stand it when it happened? Because that seems more likely to me.

I cannot see these problems you seem to be having, and it is not because I am an American. I take note of how people talk to me, and this really does not happen very often. In fact, I recall one incident where an elderly man, started to talk to me about America mentioning what state am I from, but quickly changed his question to "where are you from?" So yeah, it does happen and some Japanese do have that mentality but the fact is, for me, it is rare. I am sorry that you seemed to have had such terrible luck with people. But it seems my experience has been very different from yours.
 
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