What's new

GENKI I、第3課、第100ページ

Julie.chan

Sempai
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Messages
671
Reaction score
81
Going a bit out of order here, but I did a couple of the practice sections of GENKI I, lesson 3, last night. These ones are on page 100. (By the way, did I translate "page 100" correctly in the title?)

Both of these practice sessions (IV and V) are answering questions. The first one gives a specific format: ええ、よく読みます。/いいえ、あまり読みません。 I decided to add brief explanations as well, just as a little extra; what was actually called for is highlighted in bold. For section V, I highlighted my full responses in bold. I'd appreciate any corrections or other suggestions.

(IV)

1. スポーツをしますか。

いいえ、ぜんぜんスポーツをしません。スポーツはきらいのです。

2. 雑誌を読みますか。

いいえ、ざっしをぜんぜん読みません。つまらないと思うのです。

3. 図書館に行きますか。

ええ、グループと会うように時々としょかんに行きます。でも、としょかんの本をあまり読みません。

4. 映画を見ますか。

ええ、時々えいがを見ます。他人はいいだと言うえいがしか見ません。えいがはたいてい悪いのです。

5. コーヒーを飲みますか。

いいえ、コーヒーをぜんぜん飲みません。味も匂いもきらいのです。

6. 日本の音楽を聞きますか。

はい、日本の音楽をよく聞きます。たいていアニメの始めのです。

7. 朝ご飯を食べますか。

いいえ、あさご飯をあまり食べません。その時たいてい食べたくないのです。

(V)

1. 何時に起きますか。

たいてい九時ごろおきます。

2. どこで勉強しますか。

自分の部屋で勉強します。

3. いつテレビを見ますか。

新しいアニメを一回目見たい時にしかテレビを見ません。さきのこんなアニメは「侍ジャック」でした。

4. スポーツをしますか。

いいえ、スポーツをぜんぜんしません。でも、自転車をよくのります。たいていどこかに行くようにのります。例えば、しごとに行くように自転車をのります。

5. 週末はどこにいきますか。

週末たいていしごとに行きます。毎週の木曜日大切な何かするから、たいてい休みは一日だけあるのです。それでも毎月友達とボードゲームをするようにグループに行きます。それは土曜日ので週末です。

6. 朝、何を食べますか。

たいていあさご飯を食べませんが、多少果物を食べます。

7. 今晩、何をしますか。

今晩勉強しています。

8. 毎晩、何時ごろ寝ますか。

毎晩、午前2時ごろねます。悪いでしょう。今晩は同じです。今一時半ごろです。今すぐねたほうがいいです。
 

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう
Joined
Mar 15, 2002
Messages
16,454
Reaction score
2,223
No time to go through it properly at the moment, but I would like to suggest some useful vocabulary items for you:

出かけ(る)
評判
評価
人気
普通
苦手

Especially 苦手
 

Majestic

先輩
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Messages
1,581
Reaction score
592
First - section (IV)

1. スポーツをしますか。

いいえ、ぜんぜんスポーツをしません。スポーツはきらいのです。

スポーツがきらいのです。However 「スポーツをしません」by itself is the best answer. Adding on that you hate sports is a rude addendum that the speaker didn't ask for. "Hate" is a word that can seem normal in English, but in Japanese it is harsh complaint. The speaker simply asked whether you participate or not. Going a step further and saying you hate sports is going a step too far, and venturing into territory that isn't appreciated. Wait until they speaker asks "why not", and then you can explain why. Heed Mike's suggestion about using a softer word than "hate".

2. 雑誌を読みますか。

いいえ、ざっしをぜんぜん読みません。つまらないと思うのです。

「雑誌を読みません」だけでいいです
つまらないと思うのです ← Again, you are adding on a harsh criticism that comes across as a complaint, that is uncalled for. Somewhere along the way, you must have heard that the Japanese are often circumspect in how they express themselves. This means not offering direct opinions that may hurt the other speaker's feelings. Or, at least refrain from offering those opinions until asked.

3. 図書館に行きますか。

ええ、グループと会うように時々としょかんに行きます。でも、としょかんの本をあまり読みません。

グループと会うために時々図書館に行きます。←それだけでいいです。

4. 映画を見ますか。

ええ、時々えいがを見ます。←それだけでいいです

他人はいいだと言うえいがしか見ません。えいがはたいてい悪いのです。←Surplus to requirements. The cumulative effect of spinning all the questions into value judgments is that you are self-centered and opinionated, and that it is important for you to push your opinion on to the speaker, regardless of whether or not he/she is interested in that opinion.


5. コーヒーを飲みますか。

いいえ、コーヒーをぜんぜん飲みません。味も匂いもきらいのです。← Ref. Mike's advice below.

6. 日本の音楽を聞きますか。

はい、日本の音楽をよく聞きます。たいていアニメの始めのです。←たいていアニメの始めのです? 
You mean 日本のアニメのテーマソングが好きです。 ?

7. 朝ご飯を食べますか。

いいえ、あさご飯をあまり食べません。その時たいてい食べたくないのです。

その時たいてい←朝にはあまり食べるきにはなりません。might be close to the target.

In all of the Japanese questions, there is the nuance of "Do you sometimes...", even though this isn't stated explicitly in the questions. So when we (English speakers) answer the questions, we like to qualify our answers by adding "sometimes" or "occasionally". Our answers feel funny unless we qualify the frequency. So I can see why you added たいてい to a lot of your answers, but I think you can leave this off. Seeing it repeated so often feels strange to me.
 

lanthas

 
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
940
Reaction score
239
You can also use アニメソング to refer to anime music. (There's also the abbreviated アニソン, but that may be less suitable for real-life conversation.)
 

Julie.chan

Sempai
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Messages
671
Reaction score
81
The cumulative effect of spinning all the questions into value judgments is that you are self-centered and opinionated, and that it is important for you to push your opinion on to the speaker, regardless of whether or not he/she is interested in that opinion.
Well that's not what I want to do... :emoji_flushed:

What I was trying to do was tack on some extra cruft to the sentences to make them longer and a little more conversational. I've always been bad at making conversation (I've always tended to just answer questions directly and concisely, which tends to shut down any possible conversation), so fixing this has been a huge priority for the last year or two. I just wanted to practice/nurture that in Japanese, too, since it's something I've always been so bad at.

To that end, do you have any suggestions?

Also, I'm going to redo section V. :emoji_blush: I'll make that a separate post later on.
 

OoTmaster

先輩
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Messages
693
Reaction score
104
If you can't think of a topic yourself the best way I can think of is to return the question after you answer it. Just a simply "あなたは" or "きみは" with a question tone after your answer should be fine to keep the conversation going in my opinion.
 

Majestic

先輩
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Messages
1,581
Reaction score
592
To that end, do you have any suggestions?
Change your negatives into positives.

Do you play sports? No, but I like to go to museums.
Do you drink coffee? No, but I love tea with milk.
Do you go to the movies? Yes. I really liked "Kimi No Na".
Do you go to the library? Yes, there is a good one near my house.
 

Julie.chan

Sempai
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Messages
671
Reaction score
81
Wow, I can't believe I never thought of doing that. That would be a great thing for me to do in English, too. Thank you!

So like this?

スポーツをしませんが、自転車をよくのります。家の近くにすごく長い自転車トレールがあります。
コーヒーを飲みませんが、時々さとうがないソーダーを飲みます。レモン味のラクロアはおいしいです。
ええ、時々えいがをみます。スターウォーズはすごいです。見ましたか。
ええ、楽しいグループは時々としょかんで会います。そのために必ず行きます。
 

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう
Joined
Mar 15, 2002
Messages
16,454
Reaction score
2,223
雲泥の差です!
 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
15,023
Reaction score
2,070
Sorry to contradict, but I have to point out the OP's mistakes.

スポーツをしませんが、自転車をよくのります。家の近くにすごく長い自転車トレールがあります。
スポーツをしませんが is not wrong, but は is more appropriate than を since スポーツ is an already-known topic.
The particle is wrong in 自転車をよくのります. You can use the contrastive は after the correct particle here.
The most common translation of "trail" is コース in that meaning.

コーヒーを飲みませんが、時々さとうがないソーダーを飲みます。レモン味のラクロアはおいしいです。
は is appropriate after コーヒー as same reason as the above.
さとうがないソーダー is understandable, but I would use 砂糖の入っていない炭酸(水).
ラクロア is not well known in Japan. (Actually, I had to google it since I didn't know it.) You can use an expression ラクロアという飲み物/ドリンク in these cases.

ええ、楽しいグループは時々としょかんで会います。そのために必ず行きます。
It's not usually interpreted that you meet the group. It means the group members meet with each other there, and it's unclear whether you are one of the members or not. You need to use a particle before は or instead of は.
会っていて楽しいグループ is no problem, but just 楽しいグループ sounds awkward. I would use 仲のいいグループ/友達 for the similar meaning.

Incidentally, @ the OP, did you get why Majestic-san changed よう into ため in グループと会うように時々としょかんに行きます? In other words, do you already understand why よう can't mean "in order to~" in that sentence or also in たいていどこかに行くように, しごとに行くように or ボードゲームをするように? I think you should ask about it if you don't know the reason yet.
 

Julie.chan

Sempai
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Messages
671
Reaction score
81
ラクロア is not well known in Japan. (Actually, I had to google it since I didn't know it.) You can use an expression ラクロアという飲み物/ドリンク in these cases.
Yeah, I didn't expect it to be understood. I think it's pretty much just an American thing.

This was what I was talking about: La Croix Sparkling Water - Wikipedia

Thanks for the tip about using 「~という(type of thing)」 for names that aren't well-known.

It's not usually interpreted that you meet the group. It means the group members meet with each other there, and it's unclear whether you are one of the members or not.
I actually didn't mean to include myself at that point. I was only supposed to be involved in the second sentence. Something like, "A group sometimes meets at the library. I always go to the library for that."

You need to use a particle before は or instead of は.
Hm... I feel pretty sure I would use と for "I meet with the group", but what particle would I use for "the group meets"? The only ones I can think of are は and が.

会っていて楽しいグループ is no problem, but just 楽しいグループ sounds awkward. I would use 仲のいいグループ/友達 for the similar meaning.
Thanks for the tip. What's the significance of using 会っていて, though (as opposed to just 会って by itself)?

Incidentally, @ the OP, did you get why Majestic-san changed よう into ため in グループと会うように時々としょかんに行きます?
Ah, I completely forgot.

So I've just looked it up, and it looks like よう is basically just used for indicating that you're doing something that causes or is supposed to cause an action to be possible, or causes or is supposed to cause something to not happen; while ため more indicates a general purpose or motivation for doing something. So then:

行くように

Doesn't work because riding a bicycle doesn't cause me to go there, rather going there is the motivation for riding the bicycle, what I intend to do by riding the bicycle.

ボードゲームをするように

Doesn't work because going to a group doesn't cause me to play board games, but rather playing board games is what I intend to do, an indirect motivation for going to meet with the group.

Is that right?

And would these be correct ways to use よう?

いいしごとを得られるように大学で勉強する
(I'm not quite sure about how to say an equivalent for the English expression "go to college" properly, how about 大学をする、大学を入る、大学生になる?)

ホームワークをできるようにえんぴつを買う

しめらないように家を入る

死なないようにアスベストを使わない

ねむらないようにコーヒーを飲む

今の時を知るように時計を見る
 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
15,023
Reaction score
2,070
This was what I was talking about: La Croix Sparkling Water - Wikipedia
I already know it, as I wrote "I had to google it".

Thanks for the tip about using 「~という(type of thing)」 for names that aren't well-known.
That's just one of the usages of という. Refer to the following post.
koto & to iu in "to iu koto", "to iu imi", "to iu no wa" etc | Japan Forum

I actually didn't mean to include myself at that point. I was only supposed to be involved in the second sentence. Something like, "A group sometimes meets at the library. I always go to the library for that."
Then, what you want say is あるグループが時々図書館に集まっています。いつも彼らに会いに図書館に行きます。. But I would answer more simply はい。友達と会うために図書館に行きます。 to the question 図書館に行きますか。.

Hm... I feel pretty sure I would use と for "I meet with the group", but what particle would I use for "the group meets"? The only ones I can think of are は and が.
I was talking about the case you were one of the members of the group.

Thanks for the tip. What's the significance of using 会っていて, though (as opposed to just 会って by itself)?
You will learn about ~ている form in 第7課.
Do you understand the function of the -te form here, by the way?

As for よう(に), "riding the bicycle" or "going to meet with the group" has nothing to do with the meaning of よう(に). See the following thread.
ように / 精一杯 questions | Japan Forum

(I'm not quite sure about how to say an equivalent for the English expression "go to college" properly, how about 大学をする、大学を入る、大学生になる?)
大学に行く is the one you are looking for.

ホームワークをできるようにえんぴつを買う
宿題ができるように

しめらないように家を入る
What do you mean by しめらない?
入る is intransitive.

今の時を知るように時計を見る
ように can't be used there since to know the current time is inescapably a volitional action. Can you see the difference from 遅刻しないように時計を見る?

How about this?
The particle is wrong in 自転車をよくのります. You can use the contrastive は after the correct particle here.
This is not the problem of naturalness or something. を is clearly wrong, and you need to correct it.
 

Julie.chan

Sempai
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Messages
671
Reaction score
81
What do you mean by しめらない?
Ah, sorry, that word was 湿る

入る is intransitive.
Oh, whoops. So that should have been に then.

This is not the problem of naturalness or something. を is clearly wrong, and you need to correct it.
Sorry, I forgot to respond to it. I looked in GENKI and saw that the particle I should have used was に.

See the following thread.
ように / 精一杯 questions | Japan Forum
ように can't be used there since to know the current time is inescapably a volitional action. Can you see the difference from 遅刻しないように時計を見る?
So, what I've gleamed is that よう is used for attempting to influence things outside of your control. So then, do you mean that knowing the time is something that you can control, therefore よう cannot work (for that meaning, at least) in this case?
 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
15,023
Reaction score
2,070
Ah, sorry, that word was 湿る
I can't think of the situation 湿らないように家に入る. コーヒーの粉が湿らないように、缶に入れた works well.

I looked in GENKI and saw that the particle I should have used was に.
Correct.

So, what I've gleamed is that よう is used for attempting to influence things outside of your control. So then, do you mean that knowing the time is something that you can control, therefore よう cannot work (for that meaning, at least) in this case?
That's right.
 

Julie.chan

Sempai
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Messages
671
Reaction score
81
I wanted to ask this, too:

大学に行く is the one you are looking for.
To be 100% clear, is this the appropriate expression for enrolling in college, getting started there, signing up for classes, that whole thing? That's what "go to college" means in most cases (and what I meant), not actually traveling to the college. I was under the impression that 行く always referred to traveling.

I can't think of the situation 湿らないように家に入る.
I must have used the wrong word, then. I was trying to say "going inside so that you don't get wet" (from rain).

Do you understand the function of the -te form here, by the way?
Not concretely, no. The only things I concretely understand about the て form are that it can connect sentences, that it can be used for a request, and particular uses of it with certain words (like ~ている). I've got this vague understanding that te-formed verbs sort of act like nouns, but that's not much to go on.
 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
15,023
Reaction score
2,070
To be 100% clear, is this the appropriate expression for enrolling in college, getting started there, signing up for classes, that whole thing? That's what "go to college" means in most cases (and what I meant), not actually traveling to the college. I was under the impression that 行く always referred to traveling.
Yes, of course. Have you ever seen 学校(or 中学, 高校)に/へ行く? 行く doesn't mean just "to move to a location" in this expression.

I must have used the wrong word, then. I was trying to say "going inside so that you don't get wet" (from rain).
雨に濡れないように家に入る

The only things I concretely understand about the て form are that it can connect sentences, that it can be used for a request, and particular uses of it with certain words (like ~ている).
I'm talking about 会っていて. This -te form expresses the cause/reason (to see the group is the cause/reason to feel fun).

I've got this vague understanding that te-formed verbs sort of act like nouns
A typical misunderstanding. The -te form can't work as a noun. Refer to the explanations in the following thread. The OP of the thread misunderstood about the -te form as same as you. (He was confused because he called it "gerund".)
Is Passive Causative Form Acceptable? | Japan Forum
 

Julie.chan

Sempai
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Messages
671
Reaction score
81
Yes, of course. Have you ever seen 学校(or 中学, 高校)に/へ行く? 行く doesn't mean just "to move to a location" in this expression.
Alright, thanks. I'm surprised such a weird expression would translate so identically, but that's cool.

雨に濡れないように家に入る
Thanks!

I'm talking about 会っていて. This -te form expresses the cause/reason (to see the group is the cause/reason to feel fun).
Ah, so ~ていて is its own thing then?

A typical misunderstanding. The -te form can't work as a noun. Refer to the explanations in the following thread. The OP of the thread misunderstood about the -te form as same as you. (He was confused because he called it "gerund".)
Thanks for the link. Yeah, I did literally think it worked like that early on, although that mostly evaporated when I learned that that the way you do that is with ~の or ~こと, and sort of morphed into the idea that somehow it could be sort of similar but not the same thing. But thanks for clarifying that it's nothing like that. I do kind of wonder where I got that impression from in the first place. I wasn't aware of the ~ては patterns at the time, after all.
 

Julie.chan

Sempai
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Messages
671
Reaction score
81
OK, so it was ている you were using. No, I've not learned anything about using the て form to show a cause or reason. The only uses of the て form I've learned are to connect sentences, to make requests, and to connect words for certain constructs. I'll make a mental note about that for the future, though; thanks.
 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
15,023
Reaction score
2,070
Can you give us your final answers of the questions IV and V to confirm the feedback?
 

Julie.chan

Sempai
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Messages
671
Reaction score
81
Alright, here's both sections done over again.

(IV)

1. スポーツをしますか。

いいえ、ぜんぜんしません。でも、毎日自転車にのります。家の近くにすごく長い自転車のコースがあります。

2. 雑誌を読みますか。

いいえ、ぜんぜん読みません。でも、時々ウェブサイトを読みます。例えば、Wikipediaを読みます。

3. 図書館に行きますか。

ええ、時々友達と会うために行きます。

4. 映画を見ますか。

ええ、時々見ます。スターウォーズはすごいでしょう。

5. コーヒーを飲みますか。

いいえ、コーヒーは飲みません。でも、「ラクロア」という飲み物を時々飲みます。レモンの味は大好きです。

6. 日本の音楽を聞きますか。

ええ、時々聞きます。たいていアニメソングです。マキシマムザホルモンの「F」も好きです。

7. 朝ご飯を食べますか。

いいえ、あまり食べません。でも、毎日ひるご飯か晩ご飯か食べます。

(V)

1. 何時に起きますか。

九時ごろにおきます。でも、木曜日七時ごろおきます。

2. どこで勉強しますか。

私の部屋で勉強します。時々しごとでも勉強します。

3. いつテレビを見ますか。

新しいアニメを見たいしかテレビを見ません。でも、午前十時ごろYouTubeを見ます。かがくのビデオもせいじのビデオも好きです。

4. スポーツをしますか。

いいえ、ぜんぜんしません。でも、毎日自転車にのります。木曜日遠い町に行くために二時間のります。自転車にのるのが大好きです。

5. 週末はどこにいきますか。

たいていしごとに行きます。でも、しごとは好きのでいいです。それて、毎月の二周目他の町で友達とボードゲームをします。

6. 朝、何を食べますか。

あさ、あまり食べません。でも、晩はよくタイ料理か、サンドウィッチか、サラダか、マルちゃんのカップラーメンか食べます。

7. 今晩、何をしますか。

「ヘクソシ」という作るビデオゲームにとりくみます。その後、多分もう少し日本語を勉強します。

8. 毎晩、何時ごろ寝ますか。

午前二時ごろねます。
 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
15,023
Reaction score
2,070
家の近くにすごく長い自転車のコースがあります。
This might be a bit advanced, but あるんです is more appropriate since this の/ん has an explanatory tone and therefore this sentence has a nuance of an explanation of the reason you ride bike everyday, similar to あるからです.

スターウォーズはすごいでしょう。
でしょう can work as presumption here. I would say スターウォーズはおもしろいです.

でも、毎日ひるご飯か晩ご飯か食べます。
Speaking strictly, it should be 毎日ひるご飯か晩ご飯(か)食べます。. But the problem is not there. This sentence means you eat either lunch or dinner everyday, not both of them. Is this what you want to say?

でも、木曜日七時ごろおきます。
でも、木曜日は七時ごろおきます。. This は is the contrastive marker.

時々しごとでも勉強します。
The question is asking about the location you study/learn. Do you mean "in your office"? Then it's 会社でも or しごとば(仕事場)でも.

新しいアニメを見たいしかテレビを見ません。
新しいアニメを見たいときしかテレビを見ません。

木曜日遠い町に行くために二時間のります。
木曜日 is not wrong, but 木曜日は is more natural. This is also the contrastive marker.
You can use 二時間くらい for approximately for two hour.

でも、しごとは好きのでいいです。
しごとは好きのでいいです or かまいません/気になりません.

それて、毎月の二周目他の町で友達とボードゲームをします。
それ is semantically not appropriate. It should be でも.
The second Saturday of every month is 毎月第二土曜日.

あさ、あまり食べません。でも、晩はよくタイ料理か、サンドウィッチか、サラダか、マルちゃんのカップラーメンか食べます。
、あまり食べません。
でも、夜は
マルちゃんのカップラーメン(か)食べます

「ヘクソシ」という作るビデオゲームにとりくみます。
What do you mean by 作るビデオゲーム? A video game you are making? (The reason I interpreted the meaning so is that a google search result suggests that you might be the developer of the game (Hexoshi is developed by Julie Merchant GamniX).
 

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう
Joined
Mar 15, 2002
Messages
16,454
Reaction score
2,223
I just want to say that despite there still being little corrections necessary here and there, you have shown remarkable improvement over what we saw from you when you first joined us. You are to be commended for your willingness to go back and thoroughly cover the basics.
 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
15,023
Reaction score
2,070
Agreed. The obvious grammatical mistakes you have to correct are just only two; 新しいアニメを見たいときしか and しごとは好きのでいいです.
 
Top