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Ga and o particles

the-deer

Kouhai
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hi
i would like to have a hand about the difference between ga and o particles and how i can distinguish between the verbs that are associated with them .well i think that even japanese speakers make some mistakes in doing this distinction .:mad:
because language is not mathematics
 

luzie

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I think...
ga:after subject but I often use ha(wa),I think "ga" has declaratory nuance.

o:after object....

show me some examples which you can't understand.
I'm not expert of Japanese grammer...
I'm only a native speaker.
 

the-deer

Kouhai
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lool i thank you luzie for that and i want to admit that i learned from your reply that ga plays the role of wa particle (hi hi hi)

well this make it more interesting for me because now i would like to know the difference between ga and wa particles if there are any (well you can laugh...i am a beginner ) 😏
i would like to know if there are other particles that play somehow the role of O particle
well an aspect of all languages on this planet is that a native speaker knows the grammar but cannot understand it you can understand the grammar of your native language by taking it from a non native speaker who(he he he like me)

burns the grey cells of his brain to understand and learn it .

thanks a lot
 

luzie

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NO, I DON'T/CAN'T laugh at you!!
I'm not conscious of Japanese grammar.
and I can't explain about it in English
because my English is not good.:p

well,I hope my explanation is not wrong...
"ga" vs "wa"
As I mentioned above,
I think "ga" has declaratory nuance.
e.g.
Watashi wa Luzie desu.
Watashi ga Luzie desu.
you can translate both sentences
"I'm Luzie."
but I think latter sentence means "Luzie is me!"

you see??

"O" is more difficult to explain...
What am I supposed to say?
Hey Somebody help us!!!
 

mdchachi

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wa(ha)/ga are very difficult and even now 12 years after picking up a Japanese textbook I don't completely understand the different nuances. In general, ha is the subject and ga is the topic e.g. watashi ha inu ga suki desu (I like dogs).

o(wo) is simply a particle indicating a direct object and is fairly straightforward. I drink tea = ocha wo nomimasu.
The main difficulty is that sometimes Japanese transitive verbs don't coincide with English transitive verbs so you cannot always intuitively decide on the proper particle to use. For example.
boarded the train = densha ni norimashita
but
got off the train = densha wo orimashita.
As this example indicates ni is used for intransitive verbs e.g. tokyo ni sundeimasu (I live in Tokyo). The other confusign thing for English speakers is that there are transitive/intransitive verb pairs for which there is no equivalent in English. Like "aku" and "akeru" which both mean "open" e.g.
watashi ha doa wo akemashita = I opened the door.
doa ga akimashita = The door opened.

Back to ha/ga. There are times when both are correct, it's just a matter of the nuance you are trying to convey. Perhaps luzie can tell us the difference of
watashi ha ko-hi- wo nomimasu
and
watashi ga ko-hi- wo nomimasu

My own understanding is that the first says "I drink coffee" and the second says "I'm the one that drinks coffee." Kind of like there's an unspoken or already-established subject. Like "(As for my family), I'm the (only) one who drinks coffee."

Fun stuff!
 

dswbg

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i was tought that ga is basically 'make the noun stronger' as my Japanese teacher put it. meaning
watshi ga co-hi wo nomimasu
will indeed indicates that *I am* the one who dreanking the coffee, and can be state as a reply for
dare ga co-hi wo nomimasu ka.

other than that there are few ruls where ga will always be used, as between the noun and suki, kirai, ichi-ban ii / warui, hoshii..
but i always thought that beause we are discussing things we like/ hate in these sentences,so we would like to 'makethe noun stronger'.
 

the-deer

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yes i think that ga particle makes a stronger emphasis on the subject of the verb but the problem i cannot understand why we have to use the particle <o> in densha o orimashita even tough it is a place where we normally use tha particle <ni> and if you think i am a bit wrong what are the main uses of ni and o in japanese
thanks for your valuable explanation ;)
 

dswbg

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you will say 'densha o orimasu' or 'heya o demsu', becase in Japanese the sentence is build as if the action was taken on the train/room, and so the train is the direct object, just as you can say in English exit the room, instead of exit from the room.
i also heard people using 'densha kara orimashita.'

but i think that apart from this example, you should not have a problem to tell the difference between <o> and <ni>, just memorize that when you are talking with verbs like demasu, dekakemasu, orimasu etc. you can also use the <o> partical.

the real question is what, in all the spirits' name, the different between <ni> and <de>????
 

mdchachi

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i always thought that beause we are discussing things we like/ hate in these sentences,so we would like to 'makethe noun stronger'.

Well the actual rule for this case (according to the Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar) is "When predicates are transitive adjectives or stative transitive verbs the elements which correspond to the direct object in English are marked by ga ."
So the same rule also explains why you use ga with wakarimasu.

What's the confusion you have with de and ni? In general, de will indicate the location of an action indicated by a transitive verb. Or it will indicate the means by which you are doing a transitive-verb activity. Here's an example of both types of de in one sentence:
ie de computer de email wo okurimashita.
(I sent the email with my computer at home.)

If it's not one of these two things, then the particle you need will probably be ni.

Note, you will also see the de form of desu which helps to confuse things sometimes.
 

dswbg

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Thank you so much, i have finally underdstood the <de> and <ni> !! i was just unable to figure that rule by myself..
😌

as for the <ga>, i must admit that for my poor english i could not understand the explanation, can you please give some examples to what is 'transitive adjective' ?

thanks,
dswbg.
 

mdchachi

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It's not a problem with your English. I don't know what "transitive adjective" means either. It's a linguistic term I guess. The examples they gave were adjectives such as "like" or "want."
watashi ha ringo ga suki desu. watashi ha ringo ga hoshii desu.
I like apples. I want an apple.

Based on the examples, my guess is that transitive adjectives are things that are transitive verbs in English but are adjectives in Japanese.

I guess this would help explain why you can say both "ringo wo tabetai" and "ringo ga tabetai." tabetai is, essentially, a transitive adjective. I never really thought about that before.
 

the-deer

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hi hi hi :mad: it seems to become more hard here
can you explain what you have noticed concerning english verbs playing the role of adjectives in japanese well i have heared about the changes in the sintactic categories and functions between languages and i understand that japanese is a very different language but how come that this happen
i am tought that o particle comes before an direct object and that ga particle comes to emphasise on the subject .is this a right step to begin with or should another understanding take place :atchoo:
a transitive verb ids a verb that takesa direct object in such a structure that there are no other words between the verb and its direct object like < i ate an aple > which is in japanese <watashi wa ringo o tabemashita > well what i don't undertand is the use of <ga> wether it is used where the predicate (i mean the verb of the sentense or the clause) is a verb that expresses feelings or there are other or different conditions for the use of this particle
well it seems that i have't yet got the code of this language hi hi hi I NEED A HELP 😌
and thanks a lot
 
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