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Foreign workers integration

thomas

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Good news for all nikkeis: they are needed.

Foreign workers with Japanese ancestry to get extra help

The labor ministry plans to strengthen support for foreign workers of Japanese ancestry living in Japan, to help them find jobs and better settle in the country, ministry officials said Monday. [...] The number of foreign workers of Japanese ancestry, such as those from Brazil, has grown steadily over the past decade. About 230,000 workers, or one-third of the total, were considered those of Japanese descent in 2000, according to government officials. Many are engaged in manufacturing work in places such as northern Kanto and Shizuoka Prefecture. But as an increasing number of Japanese manufacturers shift production to places such as China, where labor costs are much cheaper, more foreign workers in Japan are losing jobs.

=> http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=1&id=249772
 

Mandylion

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Letツ。テ? hope the social integration keeps up with labor force integration. Isn't it a little odd that for such a small segment of the labor force (all foreign workers make up about 1% of the total) that this service is only being extended to foreign workers with Japanese ancestry? I'm not crying flat out discrimination, these are stps in a good direction, but if they are so worried about heading off a labor shortage, shouldnツ。テ? you want to help foreigners of all stripes wanting to work and live in Japan?
 

nyouyaku

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Letツ。テ? hope the social integration keeps up with labor force integration. Isn't it a little odd that for such a small segment of the labor force (all foreign workers make up about 1% of the total) that this service is only being extended to foreign workers with Japanese ancestry? I'm not crying flat out discrimination, these are stps in a good direction, but if they are so worried about heading off a labor shortage, shouldnツ。テ? you want to help foreigners of all stripes wanting to work and live in Japan?

No, absolutely not. All Nikkeijin must be first considered before any non nikkeijin foreigners. Nikkeijin should be made into citizens of Japan simply by registration, especially if they are full blooded.
 

nyouyaku

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I don't mean to sound harsh, but we are talking about Japan, not America or Canada a nation of with the principles of embracing multicultralism. Japan needs to be accepting everyone at least with those of full Japanese ancestry back to Japan. They could then get help paying the pension for the old aged people also. I think opening up dual citizenship completely is the best solution, but that they must pay their world income to Japan. And who but someone who is ethnically Japanese would be pleased to do this with few complaints? This way, Japan can repair herself from her own kinsmen. No more full on white guys becoming Japanese until dual citizenship is achieved for those who are already Japanese, or are nikkeijin. If a complete gaijin finds this unfair, please remember that Japan is NOT Canada. I also do not however support in giving Brazillian Nikkeijin to ensure that their children who are born in Japan and are full blooded Japanese to be given portugese education to keep up some foreign culture. This can be corrected by simply handing the kid a Japanese passport and say, you are now issei again, and Brazil is not your heritage. And only to a full nikkeijin can Japan get away doing this to. It will go much more smoothly than some Zainichi Korean making trouble. A nikkeijin is originally Japanese, so the child by not having a Brazilian identity that was of a foreign source to begin with will be of no consequence to the fully Japanese child. He will be just a normal Japanese child, and this is the best way to do things the Japanese way.
 

nice gaijin

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You seem to be ignoring the major factor that makes it difficult for nikkei populations to repatriate to Japan: cultural identity. Especially nikkei Brazilians that have lived in and acclimated to a foreign culture for many generations, it's not such a simple matter of just "coming home" to Japan. Very few of these people even speak Japanese, let alone know how to "fit" into Japanese society. The result of this are ethnic enclaves surrounding the factories in which they work, isolated from and at odds with the Japanese community surrounding them, by means of language, cultural, and even economic barriers. Is this how you propose to rejuvenate Japan? These people are treated as foreigners in the country of their ethnic heritage, and yearn to return to the country with which they feel at home. If you try giving them a Japanese passport and think they will fully accept that and blend right into Japanese society, you are looking at the problem as only skin-deep. Japan and its citizens must first learn to become more accepting of foreigners, and understand foreign culture before they can relate to and accept their foreign-born ethnic brethren.

Your post seems to assume that ethnic heritage makes people more likely to fit into Japanese society. The experiences of the nikkei dekasegi pretty much blow that claim out of the water. In terms of cultural identity, the zainichi (who just "make trouble"??) are more "Japanese" than the nikkei foreign population.
 

centrajapan

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Nikkeis are eligable for Japanese passports after a few years. Zainichis can get Japanese passports if they want. I'm not sure about the name. If they have to change to Japanised names. What they don't allow is dual citizenship. It could be that many due to various reaons don't want to change citizenships.
 

Glenski

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nyouyaku,
You are an extremist and I hope you never get a government position in Japan.

Japan's declining birth rate is screaming for something to be done. Giving aid or jobs only to nikkei will not solve the problem.

1) there aren't enough.
2) they aren't all qualified to fit every job category

Wake up.
 

Mikawa Ossan

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In my work, I come in contact with quite a number of Brazillian Nikkeijin, and let me tell you, they are not Japanese any more than I am. "Japanese" is not merely genetic in nature.
 

Dogen Z

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I've met 3 Brazilians since I came to Japan. One was a medical doctor who was having a horrible time adjusting to the culture. She wanted to go back to Sao Paolo as soon as possible, but her husband was an engineer for the GM office in Yokohama and had a contract to stay for a while. I felt very sorry for her because she was really suffering here. She was pure Brazilian of Portuguese ancesry with blonde hair and blue eyes as was her husband and children.

Another, whose husband was also working for the GM plant, was nikkeijin of pure Japanese ancestry. She was college educated and had a lot of Japanese traits such as being soft spoken and indirect. She said she liked living in Japan. I assume she was having an easy time adjusting to the culture.

The third Brazilian was a rascal who could speak Japanese fluently. His father is Japanese but his mom was Brazilian of mixed race. He grew up in Brazil and he was certainly not "Japanese" culturally. He chafed against some of the discrimination he felt here. Not so much from the Japanese, he had many Japanese friends, but from some foreigners. He said he couldn't get in a club mainly for foreigners in Roppongi because he was Brazilian! But he had a chip on his shoulder so that could have been part of it.

Anyhow, I think adapting to Japanese society is a combination of many things: background, education, previous long-term exposure to Japanese culture.

All in all, I think those who come from a Confucian society, i.e. Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Vietnam, etc., would have an easier time adapting to Japanese society than those who have Japanese ancestry but grew up in the west.
 

Mike Cash

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In my work, I come in contact with quite a number of Brazillian Nikkeijin, and let me tell you, they are not Japanese any more than I am. "Japanese" is not merely genetic in nature.

A fact that the Japanese government and people learned the hard way when they opened the doors for a flood of South American Nikkeijin. They had it in their head that it would be Japanese people coming back home. Never occured to them that it would be ethnically Japanese Brazilians and Peruvians who showed up.
 

tokapi

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ハルとナツ Haru to Natsu/Haru e Natsu

In order to get out from living in extreme poverty in Hokkaido,a family determined to immigrate to Brazil in 1934.

1 of Haru's Brazil-born sons married a non-Japanese local girl in this TV drama.

http://www.jdorama.com/drama.974.htm
 

nyouyaku

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nyouyaku,
You are an extremist and I hope you never get a government position in Japan.
Japan's declining birth rate is screaming for something to be done. Giving aid or jobs only to nikkei will not solve the problem.
1) there aren't enough.
2) they aren't all qualified to fit every job category
Wake up.

No, but to franchise every single one to obtain Japanese citizenship even by fully accepting dual citizenship therefore is a must. Even if there is not enough, Japan should be taking all nikkei back before accepting one complete foreigner.

If we are short, we ought to be taking every single one back. Many are forced to give up Japan because of dual nationality restrictions, and that only worsens the decline. I feel that we must remove this restriction first.
 

nyouyaku

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I've met 3 Brazilians since I came to Japan. One was a medical doctor who was having a horrible time adjusting to the culture. She wanted to go back to Sao Paolo as soon as possible, but her husband was an engineer for the GM office in Yokohama and had a contract to stay for a while. I felt very sorry for her because she was really suffering here. She was pure Brazilian of Portuguese ancesry with blonde hair and blue eyes as was her husband and children.
Another, whose husband was also working for the GM plant, was nikkeijin of pure Japanese ancestry. She was college educated and had a lot of Japanese traits such as being soft spoken and indirect. She said she liked living in Japan. I assume she was having an easy time adjusting to the culture.
The third Brazilian was a rascal who could speak Japanese fluently. His father is Japanese but his mom was Brazilian of mixed race. He grew up in Brazil and he was certainly not "Japanese" culturally. He chafed against some of the discrimination he felt here. Not so much from the Japanese, he had many Japanese friends, but from some foreigners. He said he couldn't get in a club mainly for foreigners in Roppongi because he was Brazilian! But he had a chip on his shoulder so that could have been part of it.
Anyhow, I think adapting to Japanese society is a combination of many things: background, education, previous long-term exposure to Japanese culture.
All in all, I think those who come from a Confucian society, i.e. Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Vietnam, etc., would have an easier time adapting to Japanese society than those who have Japanese ancestry but grew up in the west.

True, but one with Japanese blood can be repaired, or their children can be again fully Japanese. Being ethnically Japanese is still a big component. Also, your second example of the soft spoken nikkeijin of full ancestry just proves her ability to be taken back to Japan. I know that a guy like Shintaro Ishihara would be inclined to a proposal such as the one that I made. I am sure that many Japanese also would rather contend with our expatriated ethnics of common ancestry as it is still our own garbage to deal with, than someone else who cannot fully integrate. You see, a nikkeijin who is full blooded, who returns to Japan is not going to have Zainichi problems three generations later, because he or she is Japanese. The Nikkeijin would be seen as having gone on a long visit, and returned.

I also think Japanese nationals who become citizens of foreign countries as adults should be encouraged to keep their dual nationality because they are indeed Japanese. At a time of population decline, the Issei who expatriate are needed the most back in Japan. I know it is a few, but it does show that Japan is trying to bring people. People in Japan would only accept foreign workers when all nikkeijin and especially those who naturalized as citizens in foreign countries be allowed to keep dual nationality. Then, even if the numbers are short, Japanese government can tell Japan that it did its best by trying to bring all of its own back not leaving a single nikkeijin behind before taking on any foreigners. Believe me, I am sure Shintaro Ishihara would love logic like this, as many Japanese would. We must begin opening diversity by first opening up Japan from what Japanese people are most capable of doing first, accepting their own first, but tolerating dual citizenship amongst their own. then slowly, we can ease the shock of foreign workers with the storyline that the government did its best.
 

nyouyaku

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Adolf Hitler would've been proud of you.

No, I am not racist in that way. Japan is a country for Japanese people. United States and Canada is a country for the world. Everyone else is simply a guest. Maybe the Nikkei Brazilians didn't try to fit in as much because they were upset that they were not treated as full citizens and that they would be given the label as a gaikokujin. To be made to carry a gaikokujin touroku shomeishou in Japan is a nikkeijin is an absolute insult. Japan is right of blood. Those who are of mixed ancestry, it is a different story, but being of full ancestry, this is totally unacceptable. What about a child born of two full blooded nikkeijin parents in Japan? For them to be Zainichi Nikkeijin would be just b.s. I think that they ought to be given Japanese nationality by birth when two nikkeijin parents give birth in Japan. The child would grow up to be fully Japanese, and they will not have the same problems as the Zainichi Koreans and Chinese saying that their real country is Brazil when their ethnicity is fully Japanese, and growing up in Japan.

For many Japanese, citizenship is a big part of their national identity, and to take that away is like taking away the katana from a samurai. Something gaijin do not seem to understand, and never understand.
 

nice gaijin

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I noticed that you completely ignored my post, I guess because in order to make your argument, you have to cherry-pick your responses.
True, but one with Japanese blood can be repaired, or their children can be again fully Japanese. Being ethnically Japanese is still a big component. Also, your second example of the soft spoken nikkeijin of full ancestry just proves her ability to be taken back to Japan.
What about a soft-spoken foreigner that socially integrates well into Japan? Apparently, they are less suited to become naturalized than a boisterous 3rd generation nikkeijin Brazilian or Peruvian dekasegi that doesn't even want Japanese citizenship. Ethnicity is only a 'big component' if you are judging people on their appearance.

I know that a guy like Shintaro Ishihara would be inclined to a proposal such as the one that I made.
Because he's a racist pig? I think he would prefer Japanese women to just churn out more babies. After all, women are baby-making machines, right?

I'll sum my point up: Nihonjinron is pure BS, and this is full-blown racism.

edit:
...one with Japanese blood can be repaired...
I just wanted to quote this little gem again. Absolutely ridiculous.
 

The7thSamurai

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I certainly hope the Japanese find a way of sustaining themselves without having to resort to the type of immigration seen in the UK. If immigration is necessary at all they most certainly should be giving preference to Nikkei foreigners. Large scale UK-style immigration is an abomination and an insult to humanity. It steals skilled workers from countries that need them, erodes tradition, keeps wages low thus sustaining a lower class, and creates ethnic tensions. The Japanese are smart and have correctly been cautious of immigration for a long time. Japan for the Japanese I say.
 

MadamePapillon

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@ Bucko

I'm split about what you said. In some ways I do agree with you, countries like Britian and even the US and Canada I think should have thought their immigration policies through more thoroughly than they did rather than just throwing open the doors and saying come on in.

Most especially in a country like Canada that is still a very young country without the all cultural history of Britian. In some ways I'm sad for what could have been, if we had been allowed to develop our own culture more before it was swept under the rug by mass immigration.

On the other hand, Japan is well set in it's culture and traditions, I don't think relaxing it's immigration policies is going to throw the whole country into a malestrom of cultural insecurity. In fact, Japan seems to be doing a fairly good job of adopting foreign infulences without the help of mass immigration.
At this point in world history it can be only a negative thing to try and shut out the world for the sake of 'remaining pure'. They have to decide which is more important, the continued success of their economy and position in the global market, or racial purity.

People are making a bigger issue of it than it is. Every time the subject of immigration into Japan comes up you will inevitable hear someone saying 'Japan isn't like the US or Canada', well who's asking them to be? Accepting foreign workers isn't going to make the country any less Japan....but like I said, they seem to be doing well enough trying to westernize without the help of foreign immigration.
 

The7thSamurai

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MadamePapillon, damn, that avatar is freaky. It's from that Spanish movie right? I saw it last week.

Anyway, I can understand the arguements put forward for immigration into countries like Canada, the US, and Australia, as they are esentially young nations with traditions and culture that is still developing. However, I also sympathise with the Canadians, Americans, and Australians who say that because it was white Europeans who fought (the natives) for the land, conquered, then built the nations, these nations should only be for white Europeans.

Countries like Japan and the UK on the other hand have traditions and culture that go back centuries. The UK hasn't been invaded since 1066, and even before that the number of people immigrating into the country (through occupation) was small, and only from neighbouring countries. Likewise, Japan hadn't lost a war up to WWII.

The current immigration policies are all about money and big business, and keeping the populations fat, consumerist and unknowing. But when the money dries up and the indigenous population looks around and sees that they are competing with foreigners for survial (including the 2nd, 3rd generation immigrants) in their own country there's going to be trouble.

Sure the Japanese population is going to start decreasing, causing problems in society, but this problem won't go on forever. And even if it goes on for, say, 40 years, that's just a fraction of time in Japanese history.
 

Glenski

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No, but to franchise every single one to obtain Japanese citizenship even by fully accepting dual citizenship therefore is a must. Even if there is not enough, Japan should be taking all nikkei back before accepting one complete foreigner.
If we are short, we ought to be taking every single one back. Many are forced to give up Japan because of dual nationality restrictions, and that only worsens the decline. I feel that we must remove this restriction first.
Sigh, where to start? I suspect this will be more than one post...
1. Who says nikkei want to be "taken back"? Being nikkei means they didn't even have a choice in being born elsewhere, and many are happy where they are.
2. Accepting a "complete foreigner" may be as advantageous as accepting a nikkei, who for all intents and purposes may speak zero Japanese and know little of his Japanese heritage, while some foreigners may know more of both.
3. Don't like dual nationality restrictions? Fight to change them so that Japan accepts dual nationality, not funnels its nikkei and sankei into being full-time Japanese citizens. However, don't force them to be Japanese, either.

I am sure that many Japanese also would rather contend with our expatriated ethnics of common ancestry as it is still our own garbage to deal with, than someone else who cannot fully integrate.
So, now your own heritage-related kind are "garbage"? This implies you don't approve of them living abroad, which may not have been their decision. Staying abroad is, and that may simply pose a better life on them. Oh, and if you believe the majority of Japanese would welcome the expat Japanese, ask your government its feelings on the Brazilians.

We must begin opening diversity by first opening up Japan from what Japanese people are most capable of doing first, accepting their own first
There aren't enough to help with the declining birthrate. You need foreigners.

we can ease the shock of foreign workers with the storyline that the government did its best
"Storyline" sounds sooooooooo sincere. Total B.S. and you know it!

No, I am not racist in that way. Japan is a country for Japanese people. United States and Canada is a country for the world. Everyone else is simply a guest.
There you have it. Totally obvious to the fact that one is indeed racist. Japan is trying to appear to be international or globalized, but not hard enough. Because of its (and your) narrow-minded attitudes, it has severe problems with its foreign population and its own declining birthrate. If Japan is truly only for Japanese, why don't you kick out all the expats, the dual nationalities, and my son who is half Japanese? Answer: you can't, you shouldn't, and you won't because you need them and would be in even more serious problems with the UN than you are now.

Maybe the Nikkei Brazilians didn't try to fit in as much because they were upset that they were not treated as full citizens and that they would be given the label as a gaikokujin.
Bollocks! Tell that to Fujimori, who was let in freely despite being a criminal in his own country.

For many Japanese, citizenship is a big part of their national identity, and to take that away is like taking away the katana from a samurai. Something gaijin do not seem to understand, and never understand.
More racist claptrap.

On the other hand, Japan is well set in it's culture and traditions, I don't think relaxing it's immigration policies is going to throw the whole country into a malestrom of cultural insecurity. In fact, Japan seems to be doing a fairly good job of adopting foreign infulences without the help of mass immigration.
What foreign influences are you referring to? Rock and roll? Fashion? The government is precisely scared of the maelstrom you refer to and is extremely culturally insecure. Just look at its policies on teaching English in primary school as one small example.

At this point in world history it can be only a negative thing to try and shut out the world for the sake of 'remaining pure'. They have to decide which is more important, the continued success of their economy and position in the global market, or racial purity.
The problem is, Japan wants both.

People are making a bigger issue of it than it is. Every time the subject of immigration into Japan comes up you will inevitable hear someone saying 'Japan isn't like the US or Canada', well who's asking them to be? Accepting foreign workers isn't going to make the country any less Japan....but like I said, they seem to be doing well enough trying to westernize without the help of foreign immigration.
Who says hiring foreign workers will westernize the culture? I don't get this point at all.
 
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nyouyaku

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I do think that a petition for dual nationality is important. Glenski, I think that you ought to do this for the sake of your children. You being of no Japanese blood will carry the gaijin card for life, but your children might have to also even if born in Japan.

I think a gaikokujin touroku shomeisho is an insult for a nikkeijin to be made to carry, especially if he or she is of full blooded.

I am sure that my criticism is not unique, and I am sure that others have criticized in the same way as I have in the past.

A nikkeijin card should be made separate from, and an exempt from the fingerprinting as with the special permanent residents.
 

Mike Cash

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I think it very magnanimous of the JREF management to allow such an incredibly bigoted racist as yourself to remain among us.

How about telling us a litle bit about yourself? I can see you are not in Japan. Is it safe to assume you are neither Japanese nor of Japanese ancestry (though you seem to make no distinction) yourself?
 

Glenski

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I do think that a petition for dual nationality is important. Glenski, I think that you ought to do this for the sake of your children.
You make it sound as if being "haafu" is a horrible thing. I disagree. What "sake" are you trying to talk about?

You being of no Japanese blood will carry the gaijin card for life
Unless I naturalize, of course. :)

but your children might have to also even if born in Japan.
I personally have no problem with that if my children opt for American citizenship. It will be their informed decision, not mine. Besides, I hope you are aware that Japan doesn't even allow some of its "full-blooded" to be citizens, depending on manner of birth (ie, surrogate).
Former TV personality Mukai Aki (39) is the proud mother of baby twin boys. But she may not be recognized as such under Japanese law. Mukai and her husband, former pro wrestler Takada Nobuhiko (41) last weekend announced the names of their boys, Banri and Yuta, born to a surrogate mother in the US (named simply as Cindy) last November. The family recently returned from the US and must register the births at their local city office. The US birth certificates name Mukai as the mother but the new parents said at a press conference that they were unsure how the local bureaucracy would deal with the issue of surrogate birth, not legally recognized in Japan. Having been born in the US, the children are also entitled to American citizenship, a right they might not be granted in Japan. http://www.japan-zone.com/news/2004/01/19/index.shtml

I think a gaikokujin touroku shomeisho is an insult for a nikkeijin to be made to carry, especially if he or she is of full blooded.
You use the word full-blooded like a katana. It is not any real special thing to some nikkeijin. In fact, I would think if you ask many of them, they would say they feel more foreign than Japanese anyway. They know nothing of their Japanese culture or language, mannerisms or ethics, and they are quite content to be living where they do. What you propose is akin to brainwashing them like a Moonie, IMO.
 

The7thSamurai

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I've read that quite a lot of Western countries these days are putting in programs to repatriate second, third, even fourth generations expats. One of the biggest immigrations into Ireland at the moment is from Irish who are "coming home". I've heard the same with Germany and France too, although I can't provide any links.

It's understandable that people might prefer immigrants of the same "blood" because of the historical connection. After all, a race is simply just a large extension of a biological family (albeit with quite arbitrary boundaries). Don't go insulting him with names like "racist". That doesn't help anybody and detracts from your argument. He obviously loves his country and looks at his people as more like family rather than simply citizens, and wants to protect what's there. And besides, these days "pulling the racist card" is becoming more and more of a weak tactic in a debate such as this.
 

Glenski

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I am not racist in that way. Japan is a country for Japanese people. United States and Canada is a country for the world. Everyone else is simply a guest. Maybe the Nikkei Brazilians didn't try to fit in as much because they were upset that they were not treated as full citizens and that they would be given the label as a gaikokujin. To be made to carry a gaikokujin touroku shomeishou in Japan is a nikkeijin is an absolute insult. Japan is right of blood.
I think this pretty much says it all. nyouyaku doesn't see anyone as Japanese unless they are of some sort of Japanese/Asian heritage, and foreigners are not welcome in his mind. They are second-class, or at the very least second place. This is not a global way to think, and it certainly shirks Japan's international commitment towards internationalization. It definitely will not raise the population.

For many Japanese, citizenship is a big part of their national identity, and to take that away is like taking away the katana from a samurai. Something gaijin do not seem to understand, and never understand.
Citizenship is a part of many people's identity, but you don't even seem to include people who were born in Japan and are of another race. You seem to consider them below the Japanese people. Correct me if I am wrong.

nyouyaku,
You do realize that Japanese people are not even "full-blooded" in any sense of the word, don't you? They are of Mongolian, Ainu, and Korean stock, just to name a few. So much for racial purity.

As for using the "racist card", Bucko, how about this lovely quote from nyouyaku:
No more full on white guys becoming Japanese until dual citizenship is achieved for those who are already Japanese, or are nikkeijin.
White is apparently the only "other" race he even perceives. I'll ignore the fact that "Japanese" is not a race and just let the fact stand by itself in all its blatant glory.
 
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