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For anyone who is interested in trying to fight Climate Change

PatPaul

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Hello Everyone and thanks for having a look at my post,

I started a thread two weeks ago about Climate Change, and kind of “got off on the wrong foot.” So I have started this new thread, and I would ask you to please have a look at the following guidelines before you choose to write something.

1. This purpose of this thread (discussion) is not to "debate" whether climate change is real or not. I am a believer and I don't want to waste time arguing with others. Anyone who doesn't agree with my position is more than welcome to discuss it on a new thread they could create, titled something like, "Any Climate Change Skeptics out there?"

2. I am hoping to meet others who have ideas about how to solve the problem. Yes, as others posted on my previous thread, beach clean ups are a wonderful idea. What I am looking for are other members on the forum, who have themselves been involved in some kind of environmental activism here in Japan, or in their home country. If you have no personal experience in this area, but know someone who has, either in Japan or elsewhere, I would still be very much interested to hear from you.

3. So again, I ask that you please refrain from writing to me if you want to know what my "plan" is or "vision." I don't have one, but I do know the problem is immense, and the more people working on it, the better.

I thank you in advance for your cooperation and hope this discussion can generate some ideas…

Sincerely


PatPaul
 

PatPaul

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Hello Reader,

I am going to start the ball rolling on this thread with a few thoughts. Why did I start this thread? Well I am a concerned parent of two young children and worry about the condition of the planet my generation will be leaving them. I am 57 years old, my kids 11 and 9. I have no idea what the future holds for them, whether here in Japan, or if they choose to live in Canada when they get older (I’m Canadian). I do not consider myself some super parent or “do gooder,” but just an average guy with little knowledge in science, but who recognizes the enormous challenges the human race faces in the coming decades.

I fully recognize that Climate Change, Abrupt Climate Disruption (ACD), or Anthropogenic Climate Disruption (ACD), is a huge problem, which cannot be fixed my one man, one country, or one new technology etc. I do know that we cannot rely on our governments to fix the problem. I am not sure what I will be able to achieve in my lifetime trying to fight climate change, but I feel as a parent, I cannot sit by idly and do nothing. I know many people get so depressed about reading about the subject or talking about it. Indeed, there is enough bad news in the papers to depress anyone. However, I don’t think the answer is to disengage or try to ignore the problem, which many people are apt to do.

I devote a few hours every week writing letters for Amnesty International on behalf of people whose human rights are being abused. Yes, I know that many might question the impact mere snail mail letters have, but I firmly believe they do make a difference. Now what does Amnesty International have to do with Climate Change? Well, I believe that individuals can make a difference, whether it’s regarding human rights, or fighting for an environmental cause.

Well, that’s it. I will continue to contribute to this discussion and really hope others will join me.


PatPaul
 

PatPaul

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Hello Reader,

I am going to start the ball rolling on this thread with a few thoughts. Why did I start this thread? Well I am a concerned parent of two young children and worry about the condition of the planet my generation will be leaving them. I am 57 years old, my kids 11 and 9. I have no idea what the future holds for them, whether here in Japan, or if they choose to live in Canada when they get older (I’m Canadian). I do not consider myself some super parent or “do gooder,” but just an average guy with little knowledge in science, but who recognizes the enormous challenges the human race faces in the coming decades.

I fully recognize that Climate Change, Abrupt Climate Disruption (ACD), or Anthropogenic Climate Disruption (ACD), is a huge problem, which cannot be fixed my one man, one country, or one new technology etc. I do know that we cannot rely on our governments to fix the problem. I am not sure what I will be able to achieve in my lifetime trying to fight climate change, but I feel as a parent, I cannot sit by idly and do nothing. I know many people get so depressed about reading about the subject or talking about it. Indeed, there is enough bad news in the papers to depress anyone. However, I don’t think the answer is to disengage or try to ignore the problem, which many people are apt to do.

I devote a few hours every week writing letters for Amnesty International on behalf of people whose human rights are being abused. Yes, I know that many might question the impact mere snail mail letters have, but I firmly believe they do make a difference. Now what does Amnesty International have to do with Climate Change? Well, I believe that individuals can make a difference, whether it’s regarding human rights, or fighting for an environmental cause.

Well, that’s it. I will continue to contribute to this discussion and really hope others will join me.


PatPaul
 

PatPaul

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Hello,
Thanks for visiting this thread. I have posted below the websites of where I get my information about Climate Change. You might not recognize these names, but if you have the time, I ask you have a look at what they have to say. I must warn you that their views are not so positive, so be ready to get perspectives that say it's too late to solve the problem of runaway climate change.


Nature Bats Last – Our days are numbered. Passionately pursue a life of excellence.
Dahr Jamail – "He is a superb journalist, in the most honorable tradition of that craft." -Howard Zinn

Paul Beckwith, Climate System Scientist | Abrupt Climate Change from Arctic to Antarctic: Facts, Opinions, and Analysis

I hope by sharing the theories and predictions these three scientists/journalists espouse, you might get a better understanding as to why I think this issue is so important.

PatPaul
 

PatPaul

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Hello All,


I understand that the Japanese have had a terrible 2018 thus far with the typhoon this summer and earthquake in Hokkaido. Indeed the country has had a history of dealing with natural disasters, and war, so during some natural disaster, climate change is not on anyone’s mind. But storms like the one Japan had this summer will only GET WORSE in the future.


When I first came to Japan in 1991 I participated in a beach clean up at Katsuraham Beach in Kochi City. Indeed, a lot of goodwill and cooperation was exhibited during the day event; however, these kind of environmental actions are just not enough in 2018 and onwards.


Like Climate Change, according to where you get your information, you might believe that the economy is in fine shape and that governments fixed all the problems that led to the financial meltdown in 2008, but I could direct you to the work of journalist Matt Taibbi of Rolling Stone, and after reading his work, you might have a different opinion.


Matt Taibbi on the 10-Year Anniversary of the Crash – Rolling Stone


History shows there have been many important social movements started by one person or a few. Like I said, I am a parent, so my concern for my kids future on the planet might not be shared by a 70-year old Canadian-I get that.


People I admire, who did something on their own, and made a difference are, for example Tim DeChristopher Tim DeChristopher

and Kumi Naidoo who is the present Secretary General of Amnesty International, but previously was the Executive Director of Greenpeace. You might recognize his name since he and a few other Greenpeace members risked their lives to board a Gazprom Oil platform in the Arctic Sea.


Segment: Kumi Naidoo on the Urgency of Climate Action | Moyers & Company | BillMoyers.com


Many people believe that governments will always protect and take care of them, but I am not sure if those Japanese residents of Fukushima-ken who have been displaced would agree.


Fukushima evacuees face 'forced' return as subsidies withdrawn | World news | The Guardian



PatPaul
 

musicisgood

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Many times the govt. employees to are caught in the cross-fire of survival, so yes, one must depend first on themselves in times of natural disasters.
I hope to put a survival kit (something that will go into a backpack) soon. With all these typhoons and earthquakes recently, a survival kit might just come in handy one day.
 

PatPaul

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Many times the govt. employees to are caught in the cross-fire of survival, so yes, one must depend first on themselves in times of natural disasters.
I hope to put a survival kit (something that will go into a backpack) soon. With all these typhoons and earthquakes recently, a survival kit might just come in handy one day.
Hello, Thanks for the comment. Yes, we all need to be prepared for natural disasters, and I think the Japanese government, whether at the federal or prefectural level, does a very food job at this. What I would like people to begin to understand is that for our future, we cannot expect the government will solve all the problems of climate change.
 

mdchachi

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I looked at the Paul Beckwith link briefly. Is there consensus on his views (peer-reviewed papers and the like) or is he an outlier? I think it's easier to predict the melting of ice than to predict the effects of it. (We can't even get an accurate 10-day forecast).
Anyway it seems to me the most effective way forward is the individual way forward. In other words individual preparation. Yes you can advocate for global accords about emissions or other actions and that's great but at the end of the day you need to look out for yourself. For example by picking the best place to live. In that sense I'm glad I'm in Michigan. Lots of fresh water here for the foreseeable future. Not much danger from superstorms. etc.
 

PatPaul

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Hello Everyone,


Just a few more random thoughts I would like to share. Thanks for those who contributed to the discussion.


I am experiencing a bit of frustration about the lack of interest this thread has generated, but I realize everyone is busy with work, and has their own set of problems etc. That being said, I try to keep in mind things I have heard or read from others who are far wiser than me, to keep me going. One person who I have profound admiration for is the Dalai Lama. I watch many of his videos, and one recurring message I hear from him is that you have to go out there to try and improve things. Robert Thurman, an American Buddhist, author and Columbia University academic, said in an interview that as a young man he had the good fortune to meet the Dalai Lama, who was then, 29 years old at the time. Thurman said he sensed the Dalai Lama seemed weary because he had a responsibility to help the Tibetan people, and could not do, as he said he would have been more than happy, to just be a monk. I too would like nothing better to enjoy my life and be a good husband and father, but I just feel that I should be doing more for my children.


I am aware that as a white male, having grown up in a great country like Canada, I have been afforded many opportunities, and am lucky to enjoy a good lifestyle here in Japan. I also recognize that Climate Change is not a top priority for many people who struggle on a daily basis to survive. So on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, the state of the environment might not be that high on the pyramid. It reminds me of a story I read about homeless people in Sendai being recruited to work as labourers at the Fukushima Nuclear Plant. As one homeless man, who had been sleeping in a train station in the winter time said, “I am not thinking about getting sick from the job but just surviving this winter.”


I do believe that the Japanese people know how serious the problem of Climate Change is, but I am not so sure about the government. I learned a new expression in a recent language lesson. It’s used to describe the idea of “We’ll get to it later,” putting off, postponing things...or as they say in Japanese, 後回し. I think Tomas Friedman wrote in one of his books I read this interesting aconym that can describe the mindset of many people nowadays, and I’m paraphrasing: IBGBT-I’ll be gone by then. Why worry about the debt we’re leaving our children, or the condition of the planet since I’ll have been long gone by then.


I am trying to make the right or smart choices as a consumer, that is to be an environmentally conscious shopper. However, I just read that the soya milk I buy, which I believed to be better for the planet than dairy products, is being grown in Brazil, where they clear cut large swathes of Amazon Rainforest to make land available to grow soybean. It often seems like that old whack-a-mole game, where every time you think you have done something good, you later have another new problem pop up.


I have been keeping abreast of several of the new technologies being developed to fight Climate Change, one being carbon sequestration. But as this article points out, many of these technologies have yet to be tested. So I think it’s wishful thinking to believe that engineers are at the moment working on something new to save the planet, which will be unveiled just as we are on the precipice of disaster.

Future technology ‘cannot rescue’ mankind from climate change, say experts | The Independent


As I mentioned in a previous post, I write campaign letters on behalf of Amnesty International. Though I am not an expert on world geopolitics, it seems Climate Change was one of the main causes of the conflict in Syria, as well the ever increasing number of displaced people in the world, which by last estimate by the UN Refugee Agency is 68.5 million people, or to put it in starker figures, 1 in every 110 people in the world is displaced. Of course this numbers cannot all be attributed to Climate Change, but when you look at the regions where most of these people are fleeing, it does seem there is a connection.


One in every 110 people in the world forcibly displaced as Syria and Burma drive record refugee numbers


I hope everyone has kept safe in this typhoon.


Best,


PatPaul
 

mdchachi

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Don't take the lack of interest too hard. This forum is about Japan and Japanese after all and even then it doesn't get that all that much traffic on those subjects lately.
 

Lothor

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PatPaul - brief comment on soy milk. The main brand in Japan, Marukome, source all their soya beans from Canada according to their label, although my supermarket sells a slightly more expensive brand that grows all their beans in Kyushu that I use. The company is called ふくれん (fukuren). This is their website.
Hang in there, there are more people in Japan who are concerned about the climate crisis than you think there are (see my private message).
 

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I wish that the primary purpose of dealing with this trouble had been properly put to the planet's people many years ago. It hasn't been. Anyone who starts with Save The Earth is seriously misunderstanding what the problem is.

The Earth can take good care of itself without any human help at all. We are just a spec of dust in the history of this planet.

The whole business is about saving us. Saving humans. That is it in a nutshell. And that would be wise to get onboard about.

But this message I keep reading and hearing about Saving The Earth is really a problem.

It is most definitely a crisis, but it is not a crises for Earth. It is a crisis for humans. In fact, Mother Earth might be quite happy to dump the stupid human and find a better creature she can take care of. As soon as humans are gone Mother Earth will go about doing exactly what she has done more than once; fixing things herself.
 

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It is most definitely a crisis, but it is not a crises for Earth. It is a crisis for humans.
I think many other species would beg to differ if they had a voice.
 

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Okey-dokey, PatPaul, my post above may have given yourself, and others, the impression that I have nothing further to add and that is way off the mark. Yes, I do not think the earliest message and word campaigns were properly put to humans on this planet, but that does not mean I think the ultimate goal of getting our act together isn't a worthy cause.

But we obviously have a serious problem, don't we? Now there is a whole mess of finger pointing going on and it also seems there are all sorts of ideas about how to solve the problem, but it seems to me that the ideas have been repeated over and over and not getting the job done. Then the finger pointing and we go back into a loop of the same ideas. I suspect if we keep doing that we are all going to end up dead. Well, I'll be gone, but my kids are a concern. Or their kids, if humans can get that far. That doesn't seem so cool. But who is floating new ideas?

Well, let me run something past ya'll. This idea came to me because of something Dr. Radley Horton said during an interview.

ABOUT: Dr. Radley Horton: // https://www.radleyhorton.com/
Lamont Associate Research Professor and climate scientist at Columbia University.


What he said:

<=><=><=> ― Copy Starts ― <=><=><=>
If we do that aggressively, we buy ourselves time for currently pie-in-the-sky technologies to maybe become viable. I'm talking here about things like directly pulling carbon out of the atmosphere. We don't have an ability to do that today, but can we buy ourselves enough time with the right investments, and maybe in 10 or 20 years something like that will be feasible, allowing us to actually lower carbon concentrations?
<=><=><=> ― Copy Ends ― <=><=><=>


*** I just saw a notice about another post right now, so let me pause, but post this much and get back to this.
 

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I think many other species would beg to differ if they had a voice.

But they don't and that is the bottom line. We are the only species that can do anything about it, so we move on and do something about it.

What? ― you now will ask.

We start thinking out of the box! ― Way out of the box!!

With all due respect for Dr. Horton's fine work and all that, he has the wrong idea. He is part of the loop that hasn't been working.

But his word hammer in that interview sort of hit the nail he needs to hit; it is just his aim was/is off.

And it is because of my first professional work that I am absolutely sure I have it right.

Dr. Horton wants to discuss a pie-in-the-sky style of thinking? Fine. Let us think about two folks that had the job of fixing bicycles, if my history is properly archived in my brain. At a place called Kitty Hawk a true "pie-in-the-sky" was proven to work.

And I am absolutely sure my damaged brain archives have other examples of humans that went after pie-in-the-sky ideas and succeeded.

So if the ideas being pushed around the planet (for decades) up to now for have not been working, I think maybe we better start giving pie-in-the-sky stuff a little more wriggle room.

The way to get the job done is MONEY!!!
 

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So if the ideas being pushed around the planet (for decades) up to now for have not been working,
Or it could be that the ideas have not been implemented or given a chance to work. I think it's more urgent to take action with the ideas that we currently have, mass reforestation, greatly reduced meat and fossil fuel consumption and greater use of renewable energy and government-led incentives and disincentives to promote environmentally benign behaviour and discourage damaging behaviour, and a whole redefinition of what is meant by prosperity that is not based on maximising gross national product. The current paradigm that perpetual growth on a finite planet is good is ludicrous. We don't have the time to start thinking out of the box when common sense solutions based on scientific evidence are staring at us in the face.
 

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Well, I'll let you know what thinking out of the box on this one can accomplish, but I better check something first.

Next, is the money thing.

All those ideas you point to, Lothor, require money, right?

Who has the numbers on the money any of your ideas will cost, Lothor?
 

Lothor

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Well, I'll let you know what thinking out of the box on this one can accomplish, but I better check something first.

Next, is the money thing.

All those ideas you point to, Lothor, require money, right?

Who has the numbers on the money any of your ideas will cost, Lothor?
Some of the ideas don't cost money such as reduced consumption. Reforestation is also relatively cheap. It may well be more a case of redistributing resources. For example increasing taxes on some things (such as meat and dairy produce) can pay for tax breaks on others (insulation in older houses, the restoration of land to wilderness by farmers). I'm sure you can think of a long list of wasteful things that the Japanese government spend our money on - top of mine would be the huge concrete wall being built along the Tohoku coast to protect rapidly depopulating towns from a one in a thousand year typhoons (and concrete is an extremely damaging material in terms of the amount of CO2 required to produce it). If such money is instead spent on combatting global warming then significant amounts of money may not be required.

I haven't costed it out because I'm not an economist with all the facts at hand, but I hope I've given enough examples to show you that the cost need not necessarily be large...and the cost of not doing so will be uncountable.
 
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TGI-ECT

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I ran into some trouble with the "better check something" and have to have a bit more time.

But I would still like to see some numbers related to costs for something like reforestation.

What is obvious is that I haven't yet gotten into the studying of the money end of things, because I was first studying things like humans living in what geologists/scientists now call Doggerland. I also studied about that asteroid strike that caused the loss of so much life of all except the smallest of animals that lived underground and could survive on so little solid foods and liquids.

I was doing that research because I was really wondering about why and how we could be really thinking we needed to save the Earth.

Now I can move on, but I thought that should be studied first.
 

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Hello,
Thank you for contributing to the discussion. I am grateful that someone is talking about the issue.

PP
 

TGI-ECT

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But we have to do more than just exchange views and post ideas and such.

What I ran into was a problem when I was trying to figure out if there might be a way to grab the co2 with another compound that could be easily transported to the upper atmosphere. I figure it would have to be a compound. Something along the lines of cohesion like when molecules are attracted to each other.

EDIT: Let me throw this at you, if anyone might wish to help -- Attractive Forces Between Atoms or Molecules
 
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Lothor

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What I ran into was a problem when I was trying to figure out if there might be a way to grab the co2 with another compound
Yes, it's called chlorophyll. Which is why one of the strategies to solve the climate crisis must be extensive reforestation.

We don't have time to start trying to start researching and developing and then producing vast quantities supergases that can be pumped into the atmosphere (which in itself may have harmful consequences, not to mention the energy required to create such a gas). I cannot stress strongly enough that we have
solutions to the problem, which have not been implemented because of a lack of political will and apathy from most of the population.
 

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I'm sorry, but we do have time for such research, because we are looking at serious trouble in about another ten years. I mean, serious to the point that then tons of money will be required to do all those dire things for saving humans that you have touched upon.

I believe that that tons of money spent now on the research will produce the necessary technology to fix the situation.

We have an example of money and brains producing miracle type results. Oh yes, the new fashion is to call that stuff "pie-in-the-sky" ― ― ― and that was a scientist, no less.

Now let me see ― ― ― when that fella President Kennedy stated the U.S. of A. would place a human on the surface of the Moon, was that a pie-in-the-sky bit of rhetoric?

Well, there were a whole mess of professionals (engineers) that thought, at first, that President Kennedy had set the bar way too high. But then what happened? They got their backs and minds into it and did the job.

Humans can be pretty darn amazing creatures when they want to be. But us just yakking about it here ain't gonna get the job done. We have to stop dreaming about trees doing the work for us or getting a whole bunch of money-making folks called owners to stop doing this or that with them coal burning things that makes them owner types bunches of money and have all humans stop driving them gasoline cars and stop all airliners from flying ― ― ― NOPE we gotta start thinking in a different way or we is all gonna end of very, very dead.

Now let me give ya'll a rough idea of what I have in mind.

A giant balloon filled with some compound in a heated sort of way that rises up really high and then pops and out comes that compound that is in terrible love with co2 and so goes right to the closest co2 lover and then this combination of two compounds having sex in the atmosphere connect and then the passion ceases and they cool off and drop down into the huge sheet thing placed over a huge area of the ocean and it collects --- in some way --- those now cooled off couples that used to be in love and then some weird technology gathers up those poor forlorn couples (well, they are still together) --- gathers them up and separates them and then they send that special compound back up as soon as its passion for more co2 returns the moment it is separated from its previous lover.

How about that for a good summary of what I am thinking?

You see, Lothor, I want some sort of compound with gaseous properties when warm that will "bind" with co2 the moment it is free to do so. I don't want any fancy machine device to help that "binding" process to take place.

Of course, I am summarizing and it is reading as so simple, but it sure ain't. But we is also not trying to go to the Moon. I'd bet we could do it. If we's can get some other human types to get on board this JREF Project. My cat sure thinks this is a great idea. She seems all excited since I came up with this and them feline types is very smart.

I'd bet we could pull this off, Lothor and PatPaul, if we have the will to.

Okay, in following with the new no false news stuff I will be honest and admit the cat was sort of bribed with a tad bit of something called food.
 

Lothor

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A giant balloon filled with some compound in a heated sort of way that rises up really high and then pops and out comes that compound that is in terrible love with co2 and so goes right to the closest co2 lover and then this combination of two compounds having sex in the atmosphere connect and then the passion ceases and they cool off and drop down into the huge sheet thing placed over a huge area of the ocean and it collects --- in some way --- those now cooled off couples that used to be in love and then some weird technology gathers up those poor forlorn couples (well, they are still together) --- gathers them up and separates them and then they send that special compound back up as soon as its passion for more co2 returns the moment it is separated from its previous lover.


I'm sorry to be curt but you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about and I suggest you drop it. Don't you think that scientists haven't been looking at which chemicals are best for binding undesirable substances for decades?

I'll very quickly destroy your argument (which gives me absolutely no pleasure at all) with some basic chemistry.
Here is what I found when I started looking for materials that absorb carbon dioxide.


As you can see, all the reactions have one molecule of carbon dioxide reacting with two molecules of the absorbing material. In other words, you need comparable amounts of the material and carbon dioxide - and at the moment 5 million tons of CO2 are being added to the environment every hour, source here.


So we would have to be producing similar amounts of this magic material you claim that will exist if we look hard enough. There may be materials that do slightly better than the ones in this article but because of molecular limitations (a single molecule can only do a certain amount of work), they're unlikely to be much better.
Now, can you think of any material that is being produced in such mind-boggling quantities in the world?

You might also want to read the entire article to see that we do not have 10 years to start searching for a material that doesn't exist, let alone produce it in such enormous quantities. We have to reduce CO2 emissions NOW not carry on as normal in the hope that some technical fix will sort us out in the future. As I said, please drop it.
 

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Actually, sir, I did about three hours of research yesterday and very early this morning and have something like 30 plus new files, with three being odt documents, and 6 shortcuts for later study and I am fully aware of the difficulty in trying to come up with some sort of way to get this done.

And I assume you were just allowing passion to mess up what your fingers were typing and that is why I am sure you understood my language used up there in that post above. I did not write that we would start searching for the miracle compound in 10 years. I wrote that we might have the answer in 10 years and that means we start search about now or maybe within about a year.

And another thing, sir; why can't we continue with the projects you want to engage in that you seem to think fit into your "NOW" idea and ALSO do some other research?

Did you study this when you did your research?


That is just one of many ideas that scientists are studying and they aren't stopping any of your special projects that you want to engage in.

But you want me to just throw in the towel, eh?

I'm a fair bit surprised at that attitude. I didn't think you were that style of human. But that's life. I suppose I can deal with such disappoints at my age. I sure hope so.

Maybe I'll go give some money to some group to plant some trees and place a name on each ___ LothorOne - LothorTwo - LothorThree - and so on and then get back to my impossible ideas. Yep, I like the challenge of the impossible. Too bad so few humans share that 'like'.
 
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