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Education + and interrelations between Japanese and foreigners

DougLewis

English - Personal *****
8 Oct 2009
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Nice said..
I recommend you create a new thread for your question, because what you're asking is such a large departure from the actual topic.
So... An observation had been made in the other thread.
Unfortunately in Japan, the (success) percentage is small and some of it has to do with the methods used to teach the languages and the way the users of those languages (foreigners) are portrayed in Japan.
Which had me wonder...
I wonder if someone would care to expand upon this observation?
Generalizations are made everywhere I know, still, I am very interested in learning how foreigners are regarded in Japan. Of course there are varieties of "foreigners" so I am wondering if distinctions are made.
Often in other countries "foreigners" tend to be categorized by leading perceived traits (Usually based on fallacy).
For instance, a generalization about Japanese people in some countries use words such as "Inscrutable", "Unemotional", "Honorable". I know these are stereotypical, but are they warranted? If so - Why?
If not - Why?
Is this (implied portrayal of foreigners) phenomena, an impact on English educational quality in Japan?
In short, is there a bias attitude against learning English in Japan driven by an implied (presumably negative) portrayal of foreign native language speakers living in Japan?
 
You seem to have 2 completely separate questions here:

What are foreigners like/treated like?
Is there a bias against learning English? (assuming a negative answer to #1)

Pick one, please.
 
You seem to have 2 completely separate questions here:

What are foreigners like/treated like?
Is there a bias against learning English? (assuming a negative answer to #1)

Pick one, please.

Hi Glenski

In this thread I think there is only one question. (There were several in the previous thread which I snipped from and included here for context.)

The point about alleged bias was made by another poster, my interest is in pursuing the validity of that statement.

Perhaps forum posters living in Japan have anecdotal examples either supporting or denying the observation put forward.

The question in this thread.

In short, is there a bias attitude against learning English in Japan driven by an implied (presumably negative) portrayal of foreign native language speakers living in Japan?

I suppose I could have asked it simpler.

Q) Is the quality of English education in Japan affected by the presence and portrayal of foreigners living in Japan?

Is that better or is it still ambiguous?

Of course that question could be broken down into several parts also.

a) Is it true that foreigners are portrayed poorly in Japan?
b) Does the poor portrayal of foreigners degrade English education?

If the answer is "no" to a) then the second question, b) does not apply.

Is that what you were getting at?

Of course, treating the original single question as a single question...

In short, is there a bias attitude against learning English in Japan driven by an implied (presumably negative) portrayal of foreign native language speakers living in Japan?

Could be answered easily with...

"Given that there is no negative portrayal of foreigners in Japan, therefore that factor cannot impact English education quality in Japan.

Or.....

And so on and so forth.

In common practical English dialog this form of conditional multiple choice question is common. It is usually dealt with using a conditional response answer.

"Given that, Provided that, On condition that ?"... type answer.

These question types are often used in testing comprehension.

The answer usually begins with "Given that." Which is a reference to the possible conditions set or alluded to within the question which are then dealt with by that type of answer.
 
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I think the portrayal of foreigners in Japan isn't so simple as "is it positive or negative?"

Since you're asking about English education, shall we narrow things to "English-speaking foreigners," which, for most Japanese, would translate to Americans, Australians, and Europeans for the most part.

So we need to tackle what you mean by "portrayal." Do you mean the way they are depicted or appear on TV or in the movies? Do you defer to the foreigners that appear on talk segments and variety shows, or the roles foreign actors play on TV and films, or the way they are portrayed by Japanese actors and comedians playing "foreigner" characters?

Taking those depictions into consideration, do they determine public opinion of westerners, or are they simply reflections of pre-existing popular sentiments, and If they have any effect, do they affect English education in Japan.... by that, do you mean to ask if they affect the enthusiasm of Japanese students, or their successes or failures in language acquisition?

To be honest, I think that if there is any effect, it is negligible. I think it's been best put by others (I recall Mike Cash being one of them) when they said that the main hindrance to Japanese people learning English are other Japanese. I'll leave it at that for the time being.
 
English Education in Japan, possible constraints to progress.

To be honest, I think that if there is any effect, it is negligible. I think it's been best put by others (I recall Mike Cash being one of them) when they said that the main hindrance to Japanese people learning English are other Japanese. I'll leave it at that for the time being.

Thank you nice, an excellent assessment from which I learned (which is my purpose here).

It seems we have perhaps narrowed down the original question scope, which makes it easier to clarify the discussion point.

If I am understanding correctly? The question now becomes one of finding out why this statement might be on track or not:

The main hindrance to Japanese people learning English are other Japanese.

When I look at the statement without knowing why this may be so, it prompts me to pose another follow up question, which is:

"If the main hindrance to Japanese people learning English is attributable to peer pressures from other Japanese, what would be the reason(s) for the pressure?"

Rather than guessing the answer myself, I would be most appreciable if someone in Japan could expand on the discussion.

Another debate opportunity exists in the statement itself.

"If the statement has merit, to what degree does it prevail based on individual (people living in Japan) experience, perspective or perception of the phenomena?"

Thank you very much for any and all responses.

The discussion is most interesting.
 
I would say the pressure isn't an explicit thing. The reason for the statement (which I didn't originally say, but I agree with) is that in Japan, speaking English is not necessary for daily activities, unless you work for a foreign company or deal with westerners regularly. The lack of need means there's no pressing urgency to learn English, so despite several years of mandatory English education, many learn barely more than basic vocabulary and phrases.

The main pressure felt from other Japanese is because of the shame associated with speaking English in front of others who can't. No one wants to be a show-off. I've witnessed this as a passive pressure, by Japanese people who are worried about being perceived as flaunting their knowledge. I've also seen such a situation where several Japanese people lived together while going to language school in California: one student was a little more advanced than the others, and insisted on speaking English both in and out of class. The other Japanese, spoke Japanese exclusively with each other at home. Despite trying to make the most of her learning experience, the advanced student felt ostracized by the other Japanese because they mistook her attempt to retain her language skills as haughtiness. So the pressure can be overt as well.

A vast majority of the Japanese I've met that speak English fluently have some sort of immersion experience, where they've been given no other option to communicate than through English.
 
A vast majority of the Japanese I've met that speak English fluently have some sort of immersion experience, where they've been given no other option to communicate than through English.

This part I relate to. I have discussed the issue with students who during introduction, provide the reason for needing to become bilingual.
Most often it is work and job related and inspired.

With so called global economy the need to participate in multi geographic communications is a reality for a lot of folk. Most often it seems such "groups" with diverse mother tongue have adopted English as the low common denominator to facilitate business transactions.

An interesting question might be "Of the percentage of Japanese people studying English language, what percentage of Japanese people are taking English language courses as a personal strategic element for future potential advantage in the work place, as compared to those that "have to", to meet immediate demands?"

Subsequent to that question, "Is there a significant percentage of Japanese people who wish to Study English language simply because they would like to?"

I know answers to these questions can only be based on personal opinion but even those educated guesses could be interesting.
 
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