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Difference between " Mae de and Mae ni"

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Rgchrono

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My brain is kind of beginning to get it, but I need something to clear it up.

What are the differences??

what does one mean and what does the other mean?

it is kind of confusing me.
 

GaijinPunch

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I think this is simply the same 'de' vs 'ni'. For the most part, 'de' needs an action verb, where 'ni' needs a being verb. There are some exceptions to this rule, but is generally what you're looking for.

Gakko de benkyou shimashita. - I studied at school.
Gakko ni imashita - I was at school.
 

toshiro

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I'll try to explain ... however you should take what i say with a grain of salt as I am a learner myself

anyway
when you what to describe the position of something/someone you use "ni" :
place に X が ある/いる
place NI X ga aru/iru
to describve where an action takes place you use "de"
place で ...をする
place DE ...wo suru

mae de and mae ni are just special cases - when you say that something is or happens IN FRONT of something.

there is also : verb(plain, present) MAE NI... , witch means "before doing..."

hope this makes sense
 

Elizabeth

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I think what might be confusing the original poster is that 'mae ni' is used with a lot of verbs other than iru/aru and 'de' can look like the subject is 'being' in it. Regardless, the principle still holds of 'coming towards' or 'being in' a place taking 'ni.' Conversely, when the emphasis is on the action being done 'de' is what you're looking for.

その建物の前で待ってください。 (Please wait for me in front of that building)

その建物の前に車を止めてください。(Please park in front of that building)
 

Damicci

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Elizabeth said:
I think what might be confusing the original poster is that 'mae ni' is used with a lot of verbs other than iru/aru and 'de' can look like the subject is 'being' in it. Regardless, the principle still holds of 'coming towards' or 'being in' a place taking 'ni.' Conversely, when the emphasis is on the action being done 'de' is what you're looking for.

その建物の前で待ってください。 (Please wait for me in front of that building)

その建物の前に車を止めてください。(Please park in front of that building)

whats the hiragana for those kanji in the second sentence?

止めてください = やめてください?
建物 = ???もの
 

Stutz

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止めてください = とめてください
建物 = たてもの
 

Rgchrono

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thank you, makes sense. Just have to practice it. ^_^

now, what's the difference between Made ni and mae ni?O_O

😌
 

GaijinPunch

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Night and day.

Made ni = by.

sanji made ni owarimasu (I'll finish by 3:00)
you can also use 'mae ni' in this sentence, but it alters the meaning slightly, in that you'd finish "before" 3:00.
 

Rgchrono

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so, it is like this

made ni= by

mae ni= before

ok, thanks

now I know that you can't say...
Raigetsu mae ni kono shigoto o shimasu.

gracias

makes perfect sense when I translate it in spanish .^_^
 

GaijinPunch

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No, but you could grammatically say 'Raigetsu no mae ni'. Being from Texas, it takes a long time to realize foreign language doesn't equal Spanish.
 

Leroy_Brown

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Where do you want to do this?

Mae de shimashou

Where do you want to go to do this?

Mae ni ikimashou.
 

Rgchrono

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No, but you could grammatically say 'Raigetsu no mae ni'. Being from Texas, it takes a long time to realize foreign language doesn't equal Spanish.

actually, spanish and japanese have almost, not all, the same grammar points. And they share the same pronounciation.This is something i've always pointed out to a lot of people, and a lot of them didn't believe me. I feel good that Maciamo also pointed this out on animenation. ^_^ since, a lot of them were telling me that I was wrong.

Muchas gracias, Maciamo.




'Raigetsu no mae ni'

yes, but that would be translate differently. I was trying not to use "no". SO that I can learn how to use mae ni correctly.^_^

Thanks again
 

Elizabeth

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Rgchrono said:
actually, spanish and japanese have almost, not all, the same grammar points.
どういうことでしょうか?具体例を挙げてください。最近, スペイン語を復習しはじめました。
スペインの文法 は日本語に似たものはほんの少しなので覚え難くなるのです。 😊


(Please give a concrete example. I'm also trying to refresh my Spanish. But because the grammar is so different from Japanese, it is difficult). :p
 
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Rgchrono

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well, one example will be the way the particles works. Like

speak in english.
eigo de hanashimasu.
hablar en ingles.

I've notice that the japanese's de work a lot like the spanish's en.

I went by bus.
Basu de norimashita.
Me fui en bas.

there are more things, but that's one of the few grammar points that pops into my head right now.
 

Glenn

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Yeah, but you could also make the argument that Japanese de works like English "by," so you could say that Japanese has lots of similar grammar as English.

I'm curious to see the other examples.
 

Elizabeth

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Rgchrono said:
well, one example will be the way the particles works. Like

speak in english.
eigo de hanashimasu.
hablar en ingles.
Presumably true for every language.

I've notice that the japanese's de work a lot like the spanish's en.

I went by bus.
Basu de norimashita.
Me fui en bas.
FYI, this should be 'ni norimashita.' I thought at first you were going to mention expressing possession with the Spanish de being like Japanese 'no' -- although of course the word order is reversed from El novio de Maria to Maria no boyfriend. There are some striking similarities with the Basque language in vocabulary and grammar, but I don't see any point from which to even begin a comparision in Spanish. 😌
 

Rgchrono

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Yeah, but you could also make the argument that Japanese de works like English "by," so you could say that Japanese has lots of similar grammar as English.

I'm curious to see the other examples.

yes, but you can't say I speak by english, instead you say "in english". In spanish, you kind of say I speak by english. When you look at it and the different ways you use "en".

FYI, this should be 'ni norimashita.' I thought at first you were going to mention expressing possession with the Spanish de being like Japanese 'no' -- although of course the word order is reversed from El novio de Maria to Maria no boyfriend. There are some striking similarities with the Basque language in vocabulary and grammar, but I don't see any point from which to even begin a comparision in Spanish.

Not comparing, but saying that spanish has almost the same kind of mechanics, almost not the same.

I have heard "basu de noru" before. Oh well, thanks for the correction.^_^
 

Glenn

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I think you're better off with basu de iku. Where did you hear basu de noru? I've never heard it, and I'm curious to know if it's perhaps a dialectal phrasing or a non-native Japanese speaker on the internet somewhere or something.

About "en," "by," and de, in English you can say "speak in English," and the grammar holds true the same as in Spanish. Yes, it's a different preposition, but it's still a preposition. Japanese uses postpositions. I just don't see how Spanish and Japanese share similar grammatical characteristics. For example, in your original example you have "me fui en bas" for the Spanish, and the Japanese would be basu de iku. The Japanese version doesn't have the reflexive pronoun to make the sentence grammatical. In fact, the reflexive pronoun is not commonly used in Japanese as far as I can tell, but in Spanish there seem to be verbs that require it, e.g. "sentar se." I still want to see more examples.
 

Rgchrono

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I think you're better off with basu de iku. Where did you hear basu de noru? I've never heard it, and I'm curious to know if it's perhaps a dialectal phrasing or a non-native Japanese speaker on the internet somewhere or something.

yeah, I think so too, but I have heard de used before. Oh well, maybe I was listening wrong. ^_^

The Japanese version doesn't have the reflexive pronoun to make the sentence grammatical. In fact, the reflexive pronoun is not commonly used in Japanese as far as I can tell, but in Spanish there seem to be verbs that require it, e.g. "sentar se." I still want to see more examples.

I think maciamo can give better examples than I can. Since he knows both spanish and japanese. I only know spanish, and going by the basic japanese I've learned I've noticed that spanish has helped a lot more with learning how to use the particles. Chances are he will also prove me wrong. For now, I just go with the idea that spanish almost works the same as japanese. Just the mere fact that I got a B in japanese 3, after using english to study japanese in both jp 1-2 I only got Cs, I go with the idea that there's something that japanese shares with spanish. It will take me a while to find out what it is, or maybe I'll be wrong. ^_^
 
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Elizabeth

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Rgchrono said:
yeah, I think so too, but I have heard de used before. Oh well, maybe I was listening wrong. ^_^
あなたの聞き間違いだったようですね。 (You do appear to have misheard it).  それは、スペイン語でどう言いますか? (How do you say this in Spanish?) 😊
日本語の文法は動詞によって「で」と「に」が分かれるという文法です。 In the case of the bus example, Japanese grammar divides into "de" and "ni" postpositional words based on the verb.
 

Glenn

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Rgchrono said:
...I only know spanish, and going by the basic japanese I've learned I've noticed that spanish has helped a lot more with learning how to use the particles. Chances are he will also prove me wrong. For now, I just go with the idea that spanish almost works the same as japanese. Just the mere fact that I got a B in japanese 3, after using english to study japanese in both jp 1-2 I only got Cs, I go with the idea that there's something that japanese shares with spanish. It will take me a while to find out what it is, or maybe I'll be wrong. ^_^

I was thinking about this last night after I posted, but was away from the computer so I couldn't respond. If comparing Japanese with Spanish and finding similarities helps you learn Japanese, then by all means do it. I don't want to tell you that you shouldn't learn a certain way if that way helps you learn it. I don't see much similarity between Japanese and Spanish grammar, but that seems to be irrelevant in this case. Arguing about this at this point would be purely academic, and I don't think it will really help you all that much. So, go with it until it doesn't work anymore, if it ever reaches that point. The whole point is to learn correctly, so however you do it is perfectly fine.
 

Rgchrono

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yeah, you got that right ^_^

now, I'm looking at it and thinking like it is in spanish, later one as I keep on learning more about the languag I'll begin to think more in "japanese". So, for now, being a beginner I'm just saying that spanish and japanese share some, not all, grammar points. But you are right, chances are that later on things will change for me and my opinion will change.
 

McCrutch67

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I'm learning german in school and sometimes I notice that there are words that are used in similar ways to german that we don't really say the same way in english. Like to say something is near something:

near you (near you)
in der Nähe von du (in the [Nähe] of you)
anata no soba (in the [soba] of you)

Things like that help a lot because I can remember that soba means N(ae)he easier than any english equivalent. Sure vicinity or area works but we don't say that in english much, mostly if we're being general or making approximations.
 
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