What's new

Common Japanese misconceptions regarding foreigners : OFFTOPIC about testosterone

lexico

後輩
22 Dec 2004
2,343
154
73
That's quite a humorous and illuminating story, Maciamo. I remember as a child talking about Westerner's bodily hair, and its relation to evolution...sorry we were just kids ! 🙇‍♂️
Nobody taught us to think that way, but you know, things just clicked, at least so it seemed at the time. This goes to prove that humans love to see patterns, often in a manner that debases the "out-group" while keeping the intergrity of the "in-group." Another Asian myth about Westerners was that they were all tall, could never do a Tae-kwon-do kick properly, and could never learn to speak Korean very well. It took me going over and living among them to see that quite a few were actually very short, could do very good high kicks, and speak perfect Korean.

Well the same goes for the French. I was humiliated when the master of ceremonies at Moulin Rouge asked me to do a katate chop on stage. Do they really think all Asians are Japanese, and that all Japanese can do Karate chops ? Does it ever strike the French that I could be seriously offended by that kind of language when I'm there as a visitor ?

Questions as usual:
1. testosterone & hair: While it's true that within one genetically related kind group, more testosterone promotes faster cell division and protein systhesis. But are you sure the same holds true between different ethnic groups ? Couldn't different groups have developed different levels of testosterone sensitivity with the result that an equal level of testosterone can produce different muscle/hair growths ?

My understanding of the average European's skin pigmentation and excess bodily hair was due to the lower average temperature and the more cloudy weather conditions during the adaptive period. The fact that darker skin pigmentation would hinder adequate levels of vitamin D production to result in more occurences of rickets (hunchback; ヒ愿?┐C窶「a) is direct evidence of the average weather conditions of the early habitat affecting evolution. Thus heavier growth of hair must be explained by evolutionary adaptation, not by hormonal adjustment.

2. testosterone & analaytical reasoning: Do you have a source for this ? I've heard quite a few highly intelligent men tend NOT to be overly male--I don't know the mechanism behind this, but I was assuming that a lower level of testosterone could foster higher intelligence in a non-insignificant part of intelligent people.

3. Silence of the Lobsters: With euthanasian slaughtering of the lobsters, I'm sure the Aussies can sleep better now knwoing that no more lobsters wil crawl out of their TV sets because they wouldn't know who done it! :devilish:
 
lexico said:
Well the same goes for the French. I was humiliated when the master of ceremonies at Moulin Rouge asked me to do a katate chop on stage. Do they really think all Asians are Japanese, and that all Japanese can do Karate chops ? Does it ever strike the French that I could be seriously offended by that kind of language when I'm there as a visitor ?

If it could be argued that Korea has taekwondo (quite similar to karate), and China has kung-fu, that still doesn't mean that anybody from these countries can practice it (not all English people are proficient at football, tennis, cricket, polo and rugby - least of all all of them!). Incidentally, the people at Moulin Rouge are not the most elevated form of life you'll encounter in France. :eek:

1. testosterone & hair: While it's true that within one genetically related kind group, more testosterone promotes faster cell division and protein systhesis. But are you sure the same holds true between different ethnic groups ? Couldn't different groups have developed different levels of testosterone sensitivity with the result that an equal level of testosterone can produce different muscle/hair growths ?

Yes, could be. What I know for sure is that people with fairer hair tend to lose their hair more easily under the influence of testosterone, although it varies a lot depending on heredity too.

My understanding of the average European's skin pigmentation and excess bodily hair was due to the lower average temperature and the more cloudy weather conditions during the adaptive period. The fact that darker skin pigmentation would hinder adequate levels of vitamin D production to result in more occurences of rickets (hunchback; ヒ愿?┐C窶「a) is direct evidence of the average weather conditions of the early habitat affecting evolution. Thus heavier growth of hair must be explained by evolutionary adaptation, not by hormonal adjustment.

But how do you explain the difference of pigmentation between Northern and Southern Europeans, who were the same Aryans people only 5000 years ago ? If pigmentation can change so quickly, how comes that Mongols, Mongoloid tribes of Siberia and Canadian native American tribes did not develop a fairer pigmentation for skin, hair nor eyes ? Or it could be that the Aryans were all blond and blue-eyed (that's the generally accepted theory), and that the change toward darker pigmentation comes much faster than the other way round ?

2. testosterone & analaytical reasoning: Do you have a source for this ?

Yes, any book on the differences between male and female way of thinking. Eg Why men don't listen and women can't read maps.

I've heard quite a few highly intelligent men tend NOT to be overly male--I don't know the mechanism behind this, but I was assuming that a lower level of testosterone could foster higher intelligence in a non-insignificant part of intelligent people.

I didn't say that testosterone influenced intelligence, but analytical (and logical and 3D) skills only. Women are known to be better communicator thanks to higher oestrogens levels, for instance. Intelligence depends also a lot on one's agility of mind, memory, knowledge, etc.
 
Maciamo - I think you overestimate the general knowledge in Europe quite a lot. There are scores of silly stuff people belive in in Europe as well.

How many europeans can give a basic account of colonialism, and what specific crimes their countries committed during it? How many french people believe France was more or less the prime factor behind the Allied victory? (And how many swedish people still believes Sweden did it's best too keep neutral in WWII...)

That "Men are from Mars..." stuff you mentioned earlier is a perfect example of European sillyness. It's about as scientific as the japanese beliefs on blood types.
 
Sr Pasta said:
How many europeans can give a basic account of colonialism, and what specific crimes their countries committed during it? How many french people believe France was more or less the prime factor behind the Allied victory? (And how many swedish people still believes Sweden did it's best too keep neutral in WWII...)

I don't know about Swedish people, but I have never met a French person who was convinced that France played a major role in the Allied victory. At best they mention that there was a small "resistance" movement, but they largelly credit Americans for the final victory (also in WWI).

That "Men are from Mars..." stuff you mentioned earlier is a perfect example of European sillyness. It's about as scientific as the japanese beliefs on blood types.

I guess it is because you haven't read it yourself. There is a 14-page bibliography at the end of "Why men don't listen.." and the guy of "Mars & Venus" (different author) is a PhD (doesn't mean much, but well...). I have read many books about psychology, neuropsychology (the scientific aspect of the brain), etc. and if it's true that "Why men don't listen.." is probably the easiest book I have ever read, there is quite a lot of truth in it (I like analysing my close acquaintances's way of thinking and behaviour, and it does fit very well with what was explained in the book).
 
Are you suggesting that "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" is a serious book Maciamo?
 
Index said:
Are you suggesting that "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" is a serious book Maciamo?

It kind of IS. It has a goofy name, but gives a lot of information on the psychology of male, female relations. But, I don't know, I've only heard about it, not read it. 😌But that was my understanding.
 
Index said:
Are you suggesting that "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" is a serious book Maciamo?

I was referring more to the other one (Why men don't listen...). It is not "serious' because it's written for a large audience, is caricatural and funny but there are many good observations in it, which fit with the common model of sexual identity. I usually recommend it rather than more "serious" books because I know that most people don't get to the end of serious books.

I couldn't find much on the Net, proably because most researches are not published on the net or not listed at the top of search engines. The BBC's Science & Nature section has this article though.

BBC said:
Nature or nurture
Most biologists now believe that hormones help build structures in the brain in the same way that they help build our bodies. This would predict distinctly male or female behaviours. But the brain is designed to be extraordinarily flexible. Environment and experience also appear to influence those structures.

So, was the way we behave engrained in us before we were born? Or has it developed over time in response to our experiences?

Researchers suspect that both answers may be right.
Biology pushes certain behaviours. And we push biology. Which means that we still get to choose who we'll be when we grow up. The little girl may still grow up to be a soldier and the boy, once he's long past plastic weaponry, may decide to be a 'stay at home' dad. So far gender biology reminds us to make no assumptions.

Another BBC article sys
BBC said:
It's thought that testosterone plays an important role in the way we think and behave. Many of the questions in the Sex ID test are related to theories about testosterone.

They also confirm here that :
It's also thought that the male sex hormone testosterone plays a role in spatial ability. One finding that supports this theory is that women with above average levels of testosterone in their body perform better at mental rotation tasks than women with average levels of testosterone.

This is also related to the finger-length issues recently suggested by scientists of the University of Liverpool.

Here is what the Economist says on the issue :
Economist said:
That may sound surprising, but high levels of testosterone in the womb have been linked to several other brain-related phenomena, including left-handedness, dyslexia and female homosexuality.

Here is another artcile from the Nnw Scientist {quote=New Scientist]Levels of hormone exposure in the womb helps determine which academic discipline researchers work in, a new study suggests. Perhaps surprisingly, a "female" pattern of exposure was common in scientists, while a "male" pattern dominated in the social sciences.
....
It is accepted that high levels of prenatal testosterone encourage development of the right side of the brain, which would also encourage the visual spatial skills important in science. Brosnan's findings appear to contradict this, with a more "female" pattern found in the scientists studied.

The researchers therefore speculate that exposure to either unusually high or low levels of testosterone in male fetuses could lead to a "scientific" brain. From this it would follow that average levels of hormone exposure could lead to a "social science" brain.[/quote]

Other reliable sources on the brain indentiy include :

Better Humans : Men and Women: Same IQ, Different Brain

British Psychological Society : Testosterone improves your verbal ability

British Psychological Society : Testosterone gets you thinking
 
One more think about the effects of testosterone on brain identity, personality and intellectual specialisation. To answer lexico's question as to whether Caucasian do have higher testosterone levels or are just more sensitive to it, I think that scientif tests have shown that testosterone levels are higher among Negroids, then Caucasoids, then Mongoloids, although Caucasoids are much hairier than Negroids and more subject to baldness and autism (as the Economist article above said, autism is caused partly by excessively high testosterone levels in the womb).

So I think this is indeed due to a greater sensitivity to testosterone, both at the mental (autism...) and body level (hairiness, baldness...).
 
Back
Top Bottom