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Bring back Hanja education

Davey

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and why do you hope that?
 

FinancialWar

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and why do you hope that?

I hope the S. Korean government and people realise the importance of Hanja in the children's development of vocabulary. Around 60% of Korean vocabulary is sino-compound, while it is true there are more vowels in Korean compared to Japanese, but there are still too many homophones, Hanja will speed up reading and comprehension. Many legal, medical and professional jargon are sino compound, and can't not be understood with Hangul alone.

The use of Hanja will eliminate need for spaces in the Korean sentences.

Aesthetics: Hanja looks more formal, professional and more elegant then hangul. Thus in formal situations, Koreans still use Hanja as oppose to Hangul
 
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BrianLewis

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I understand that your ethnocentric agenda would want this, so that South Korea would take steps towards being a subject state to China again. However, I would only think that such a thing would be taking a step back from their historical intentions.

I don't know if you have studied the language to any extent, but Hangeul system is functional and eloquent at the same time. I consider it to be one of the most refined written languages in existence today. Have you ever considered why they refer to King Sejong as "The Great King Sejong?" As far as I know, he is the only one with the title of "Great." The reason for the title is due to his political, science and language reform that separated the nation from subjection to China and laid the foundation for abolishing the caste system. Why would the South Korean people undo all of that by cluttering their language and re-creating their initial problem with illiteracy?

There is nothing wrong with spaces. I am assuming you don't like them because you consider them to be "cultural contamination," or something to that effect (you are free to correct me on that). Furthermore, the confusion between two words can easily be clarified through context. The ones that cannot, are often accompanied by Hanja in parentheses. Also, those words are almost always non common use words, and in the realm of academia, are usually learned passively. I see no reason to have required education for Hanja for anyone e-12 at all.

I have a Hanja book and I consider it to be pretty neat. However, liking something and forcing it upon people are two different things. I see no reason to tax a society with unnecessary educational strain, especially one that serves relatively no practical benefit to the average citizen.
 

dsvlee

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There is no need for you to persuade others. Future will show Hanja or Chinese characters' superior in east asian writing system. Chinese characters have taken many advantages from different origins. It is still hard to say at this moment, if it can compare to those languages invented by one or several scholars. Because now we donot need a complex language to express too many informations. But history will show, and many languages will vanish, just wait.
A text written by Chinese is much shorter than that of English.
 

Mark of Zorro

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I am no expert on the Chinese language or the Korean language, but what I know about Chinese tells me that Chinese characters fit the Chinese language like a glove, and other languages like a thick woolen mitten two sizes too large.

Outside of Chinese speaking countries and those dependent on Chinese characters, study of Chinese Characters should be completely voluntary.

I hope the S. Korean government and people realise the importance of Hanja in the children's development of vocabulary. Around 60% of Korean vocabulary is sino-compound

One of the things I don't like about Chinese characters is their inflexible nature. The meaning cannot change over time or is difficult to change. So what you wind up with is a word that is very hard to add new nuances to. You wind up with a word whose meaning was decided by some guy thousands of years ago. Also, in other languages words might have slightly different meanings to different people. But this is going to be less true with Chinese character usage leading to a more universal agreement on the meaning. Sounds like a good thing until you realize that, once again, its some guy from thousands of years ago who made the meaning, and its that much harder, or impossible, to move into the future or generate new concepts.

For example, the Chinese character for medicine is 薬 (correct me if I am wrong). It consists of a leaf over relaxation, fun, or ease. But the thing I want to draw your attention to is the leaf. This character plants an image in your mind of a leaf as medicine, and I suspect that image appears in the mind of users of Chinese characters. But in my mind, I think of pills and liquids in vials to be administered by syringe. In other words, my image is more up to date, because the word "medicine" comes with no pre-packaged imagery for me to absorb. I match what I see in the real world to the word, not what some guy stuck in there a thousand years ago.

Then you have the large amount of time required to study and memorize Chinese Characters that could be spent on other more practical things.

I think the Koreans will do just fine without Chinese characters. In fact, eventually I think they will do better than fine.

And let us not forget that the entire reason Hangul was literally banned in favor of Chinese Characters long ago was to ensure illiteracy in the people and keep power with the nobility, the people who had enough leisure time to learn Chinese characters.
 

dsvlee

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I am no expert on the Chinese language or the Korean language, but what I know about Chinese tells me that Chinese characters fit the Chinese language like a glove, and other languages like a thick woolen mitten two sizes too large.

For example, the Chinese character for medicine is 薬 (correct me if I am wrong). It consists of a leaf over relaxation, fun, or ease. But the thing I want to draw your attention to is the leaf. This character plants an image in your mind of a leaf as medicine, and I suspect that image appears in the mind of users of Chinese characters. But in my mind, I think of pills and liquids in vials to be administered by syringe. In other words, my image is more up to date, because the word "medicine" comes with no pre-packaged imagery for me to absorb. I match what I see in the real world to the word, not what some guy stuck in there a thousand years ago.

"zhongwen hai keyi zheyang shuo." If you are farmiliar with our language, you may know Chinese can also be expressed in latin characters or other kind.

Some languages in Chinese culture circle, just remove the format of Chinese leaving only pronounciation. Most of the time it would be ok, because we donot need too much information for the moment. But what if it comes to people's name? Most people may know Korean is a pure blood race with not so many family names, comparing to Chinese. Koreans only have 3 characters in their name. And they only have 24 Korean characters. The result is one korean can always find many others owing the same name.

The solution for them is to expend their name's lengh like north Mongolian or British. One can call himself Jackie (5 characters), so that not everyone is Jack.

As to 藥,Simple Chinese is 药. It can make me recall nothing when I use the word "madicine" just by seeing the shape of 药. And chinese characters have totally changed it form at least 5 times to fulfit time needs.
 

dsvlee

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Sb from an English speaking country should use Latin language to formally record animals or plants' names. But to some new invented things or new way of life, He cannot use Latin. He have to make up a new one. A simple way is adding two farmiliar worlds together. The result of this is English is getting much longer and longer.

But in Chinese, all things solved. I also donot think those newly invented languages, like from southeast asia can express these things well. If they stop using Chinese because of "Chinese's ethnocentric agenda ", then they have to use some other kind languages.
 

BrianLewis

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Korean is a second language to me. However, I don't really have much of a problem in confusing 2 similarly spelled words, since the context usually provides the answer.

A simple way is adding two farmiliar worlds together. The result of this is English is getting much longer and longer.
Are you saying that the Chinese language do not have compound words? I would find that highly surprising.

So then, what's the use of spending extra time to study Hanja, if it lowers literacy and historically added to the division between social classes? The only reason I can think of is to preserve a cultural heritage. However, Hanja is China's cultural heritage, not Korea's. I say leave it to the scholars and historians, and leave the common citizens alone.
 

FinancialWar

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Korean is a second language to me. However, I don't really have much of a problem in confusing 2 similarly spelled words, since the context usually provides the answer.

You're a learning simple to normal Korean. Wait until you try to study for a Korean law degree or medical degree.

if it lowers literacy and historically added to the division between social classes?

Because this is 21st century, not 16th century. Chinese character is no longer a barrier between castes. The literary rate in both Taiwan and Japan is higher than S.Korea, so Koreans shouldn't have any excuse saying that Chinese characters will lower literary rate. The is no correlation between the use of Chinese characters and lower literary rate in this day and age. Literacy rate is linked to a nations economic development and educational system.

Hanja is China's cultural heritage, not Korea's. I say leave it to the scholars and historians, and leave the common citizens alone.

What? Why do Korean people use Chinese surnames and Sino vocabulary? The truth is that Chinese culture is an inseparable part of everyday Korean life. Hangul should be thought of a temporary replacement and pronunciation aid for Chinese character like furigana, not a replacement.
 

Mark of Zorro

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The literary rate in both Taiwan and Japan is higher than S.Korea

Or so it is claimed. I have my doubts. Especially here in Japan, they just don't let kids fail public school. Then they turn around and claim high literacy rates. Not buying it. Doubly not buying when I see grown men stop and stare at a piece of paper they are reading aloud and ask what a kanji is.

Hangul should be thought of a temporary replacement and pronunciation aid for Chinese character like furigana, not a replacement.

Well, that is an opinion. But I have to disagree for all I have said. Hangul is an awesome system and I think it can and should stand alone.
 

dsvlee

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Are you saying that the Chinese language do not have compound words? I would find that highly surprising.
We have. But most of the time, Chinese compound words are not so long as English. Because a Chinese character have 4 level of structures to show information.

1st, Chinese characters have 14 kinds of strokes. Different combination of Character's strokes, can show enough meanings most of the time. So you can use them to form a character, like 田,口,回 or 米, 未, 末.Change strokes a little, then its meaning changed a lot.

2nd, Not like English put every letter one by one to form a word, Chinese also put different simple character into one character to show a complex meaning, like 口(mouth), 回(comeback),吕(a family name), 茴(a plant name), 铝(aluminum).

3rd, its pronounciation. This is the same thing with Hangul or English letters. When I write"Ni baba jiaoni huijia chifan", Every Chinese from mainland China can know its meaning just by seeing these latin letters.

4th, and in Chinese, two or more characters can form a word, like 药(medicine), 草药(herb), 毒药(poison), 泻药(laxative),感冒药(cold medication).

Is it complex? Yes, but it dosent mean you have to use all 4 level knowledge to express some meaning. It means you can combine these 4 basic level in any way you like to express. In chinese, 口 means mouth, it is very simple and easy to remember. But one can also write 嘴(mouth) to show the same meaning in a complex way.

I think it is like driving cars with 4 wheels. It is ok sb just want to ride a bike. Surely a bike or a cart with 2 wheels can also take you to anywhere you want. The problem is how fast you want to drive.
 

Mark of Zorro

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Japan self-reports its literacy rate as 99 percent, and I am supposed to just believe it? Once again, Japan does not fail students. Its always a show here. Anything that can be a facade, is a facade.

Hangul only transform sound to paper, Latin alphabet can do this "sound recording" function much better.

The latin alphabet might be more generally applicable, but it seems to me that Hangul fits Korean just fine.
 

Mark of Zorro

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We have. But most of the time, Chinese compound words are not so long as English.

I am sure that if we squashed English letters into squares on paper, say three letters per square, the length of texts would be about the same and so would the number of pen strokes needed to write.

Further, people learn to sight read English much the same as people sight read Chinese. In the end so much is the same. But phonetic alphabets win in practical advantages, while the pictograms win in artistic merits. I will go with practical advantage every time. I like to be able to pick up a simple dictionary and quickly find a word for example.
 

FinancialWar

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Japan self-reports its literacy rate as 99 percent, and I am supposed to just believe it? Once again, Japan does not fail students. Its always a show here. Anything that can be a facade, is a facade.

I made the statement that Japan have higher litatery rate.

you said you have doubts.

I give you the official data.

now, you're saying you don't believe it.

If you want to have a logical argument, then bring your evidence to back up your claim that "Japan does not fail students".

If you don't have any evidence, then don't make a statement on what you "believe", it's shows that your incapable of having a logical debate.
 

FinancialWar

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The latin alphabet might be more generally applicable, but it seems to me that Hangul fits Korean just fine.

Just because something is native and seems "just fine", doesn't mean it is the best. And honestly, hangul is not "just fine", there are many flaws in the system, hangul does not have any meaning, and it does not do sound with 100% accuracy. Hangul does not even represent batchim, while Latin alphabet can shows all the consonant change, which is why Latin alphabet is a much better fit than hangul for the Korean language if they choose not to use Hanja.
 

FinancialWar

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I expect that the Koreans will use whatever language they see fit, without regard to your or my opinion.

I am pretty sure no government's education department will regard any opinions on JREF. It's no like we can influence anyone. Why bother posting?
 

Mark of Zorro

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I am pretty sure no government's education department will regard any opinions on JREF. It's no like we can influence anyone. Why bother posting?

By listing reasons why they would do something we can predict their reaction. We may also learn a thing or two about Korea and her people, their motivations and goals.

Your post reads to me like "Why bother talking or studying? Just focus on your work."
 

Haruspex

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I just read the other day in Truthful News Daily that Korean society is rapidly collapsing due to their inability to convey even simple ideas due to their woefully inadequate writing system which had thrust them onto a downward spiral of inexorable cultural degeneration.

It looks more formal, elegant and professional? Alright, so what? A suit of armour looks plenty formal and solemn but we don't really wear them anymore.
 
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