Bit of translation help

[winampman]

Soredemo anata no
rin to shita sugata ni
zutto akogarete iru kara

"zutto akogarete iru" is "desperately longing" for something... "anata no rin to" is "with your companion"... and "sugata" is "appearance"... is that right?

and thats all i can translate... what does "shita" mean? surely it cant be "tongue"... wouldnt make sense...



Tsutaenakucha
does anyone know what that means? theres a verb, "tsutaeru"... which means to convey... dont know if that helps...




Anta nayanderu kedo
Datte mou kimatteru kuseni
Mada maniau ja nai
the first line is "You're worried, but"
the third line is... "you still won't make it in time"?? but maniau is a verb, so i would think it should be "maniawanai", but nevertheless, the lyrics are "maniau ja nai"!!
and i'm not sure of the second line, i only know that "kuseni" means "even though"


by the way, these lyrics are from Do As Infinity's most recent single, "~Mahou no kotoba~ Would you marry me?"

any help would be much appreciated!!
doumo arigatou gozaimasu!!

 

[tasuki]

Well, it's actually quite difficult to provide an accurate translation without the kanji, but I'll have a go.

"Soredemo anata no rin to shita sugata ni zutto akogarete iru kara"

This could mean "However, I will always envy your dignified posture"

"Soredemo" means "however" or "but".
"rin to suru" means "dignify". For example, "Rin to shita koe"--a dignified voice.
"sugata" is more than just appearance. It bears on your physique, your physical presence. Pose, posture, form, aspect. It's really more (and less) than appearance.

The "kara" at the end of the sentence would tend to suggest that the line is an explanation to a previous statement or question. So does "soredemo".

"Tsutaenakucha" is slang for "tsutaenakerebanarimasen". I absolutely have to tell him/her/someone. "Tsutaeru" in most common usage means "to relay" (a message, and such) or simply tell someone something. In its "convey" sense, it is more often used in its passive form "tsutawaru".

As for your third problem, it's all a question of intonation.

"Anta nayanderu kedo Datte mou kimatteru kuseni Mada maniau ja nai"

"You're worrying even though it's already fated/decided/accomplished. You/we can still make it, can't you/we?"

The lines above are in a very verbal form. "datte" usually means "because", but it's "girl's talk" (meaning it's usually used by women). "kuseni" is an expression usually used to mean "even though" or more generally to emphasise something in the face of something else. "Otoko no kuse ni!" to emphasise the fact that you're a man in the face of doing something girlish or typically macho (again, it depends on the intonation). "Maniau" means to be in time for something (a train, a plane, school...). Adding "ja nai" at the end pronounced with a slight upward inflection, transmforms the statement into a question, just as in the translation above (although you'd have to hear it to really understand). If it's pronounced in a flat tone, the sentence becomes a negative statement. However, in this case it would be grammatically incorrect because, as you pointed out, "not to be in time" is "maniawanai". Young Japananese make a rather extensive use of this "ja nai" in their statements to make them appear more ambiguous and less confrontational, or to point out the obvious. The expression is very often shortened to "jan", as in "Ame futteru jan!" "Can't you see it's raining?"

Puff, puff... Hope that solves all your problems. If you have any more, just drop me a line or something.

 

[Elizabeth]

Originally posted by tasuki
Well, it's actually quite difficult to provide an accurate translation without the kanji, but I'll have a go.

Tasuki, thanks for the explanation from me as well. And here's a copy of the original lyrics.

いつもそうじゃない　あんた悩んでるけど
だってもう決まってるくせに
まだ間に合うんじゃない
OK!　今すぐにでも
OK!　返事するだけじゃない

心の奥にある気持ち
伝えなくちゃ　ねっ！

「Would you marry me? Honey」
おめでとう　今
やっと出逢えた　魔法の言葉
とてもささいな始まりがほら
とても大きな愛に変わってく

強がる瞳や　ちょっと不器用な口
やっぱブサイクな　泣き顔
それでもあなたの
凛とした姿に
ずっと憧れているから

何より大切なことを
あなたは知ってる　ねっ！

広い世界で　出逢えた奇跡
大げさだけど　運命だよね
やがてふたりが　歳をとっても
ケンカのあとは
キスでもしなさい！

いつかは私出逢うかな？
魔法の言葉に　Ah-

「Would you marry me? Honey」
おめでとう　今
やっと出逢えた　魔法の言葉
とてもささいな始まりがほら

 

[tasuki]

It does look like I hit it on the head... The 窶堋ｻ窶堙ｪ窶堙??堙? and 窶堋ｩ窶堙ｧ making a couterpoint against ﾆ置ﾆ探ﾆ辰ﾆ誰窶堙遺?ｹﾆ停?堋ｫﾅ?ﾃｧﾂ… 邃｢z窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾅｽp, too. Yet, lyrics being usually full of metaphors, they are so difficult to translate... Thanks for the praise.

 

[Elizabeth]

Originally posted by tasuki
It does look like I hit it on the head... The 窶堋ｻ窶堙ｪ窶堙??堙? and 窶堋ｩ窶堙ｧ making a couterpoint against ﾆ置ﾆ探ﾆ辰ﾆ誰窶堙遺?ｹﾆ停?堋ｫﾅ?ﾃｧﾂ… 邃｢z窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾅｽp, too. Yet, lyrics being usually full of metaphors, they are so difficult to translate... Thanks for the praise.

Because despite her pupils, slightly clumsy mouth, what kind of crying face (?), he still envies the dignified (awe-inspiring?) way she carries herself and wants to marry her?

 

[tasuki]

Doesn't Do as Infinity have a female lead?

Anyway, 窶ｹﾂｭ窶堋ｪ窶堙ｩ doesn't mean strong in this case, it means difficult to read or to fathom, secretive... So, "Despite my secretive eyes, my lack of ability with words, and of course my ugly crying face, I've always envied you your proud figure" is the way I'd go about interpreting it, but I'm not sure whether the singer is talking about him/herself or not... Hurray for metaphors...

 

[winampman]

Yes, Do As Infinity has a female lead.. 窶敖ｺ 窶徭窶敕ｼﾅｽq (Ban Tomiko) is her name. But in English, her last name is "Van". Thanks so much for your help... as you can see I'm trying my best to translate the song.
Well... I might as well double check the stuff I'm not 100% sure on....

OK! imasugu ni demo
OK! henji suru dake ja nai
The first line... I'm thinking its "Really soon"?
The second line... henjisuru means to reply or to answer.. so, "Not only an answer" or something like that?


ﾂ広窶堋｢ﾂ青｢ﾅ?E窶堙?　ﾂ出ﾋ?ｧ窶堋ｦ窶堋ｽﾅ?ﾃｯﾂ静票/b]
If you ignore the "kiseki" at the end... you get:
"To be able to have met in this huge world..."
why is "kiseki" at the end? is it just, "to be able to have met in this huge world, a miracle"?

hurrah to metaphors.. -_-;;



Wow! Thanks a lot for the lyrics, Elizabeth! as you can see, I had the romanji, but not the kanji. Could you tell me where you got that? I couldnt find any site that had it.

 

[Elizabeth]

Originally posted by winampman


Yes, Do As Infinity has a female lead.. 窶敖ｺ 窶徭窶敕ｼﾅｽq (Ban Tomiko) is her name. But in English, her last name is "Van". Thanks so much for your help... as you can see I'm trying my best to translate the song.
Well... I might as well double check the stuff I'm not 100% sure on....

OK! imasugu ni demo
OK! henji suru dake ja nai
The first line... I'm thinking its "Really soon"?
The second line... henjisuru means to reply or to answer.. so, "Not only an answer" or something like that?]

This is almost certainly the same use of intonation "ja nai" as Tasuki explained above. Just answer OK, won't you? Immediately.

Ditto with "窶堋｢窶堙や?堙?窶堋ｻ窶堋､窶堋ｶ窶堙｡窶堙遺?堋｢"....it's always like this, isn't it....(?)

ﾂ広窶堋｢ﾂ青｢ﾅ?E窶堙?　ﾂ出ﾋ?ｧ窶堋ｦ窶堋ｽﾅ?ﾃｯﾂ静票/b]
If you ignore the "kiseki" at the end... you get:
"To be able to have met in this huge world..."
why is "kiseki" at the end? is it just, "to be able to have met in this huge world, a miracle"? ]

Although the miracle of our having met in this huge world is an exaggeration, it was (instead) destiny/fate, wasn't it? (?)


hurrah to metaphors.. -_-;;



Wow! Thanks a lot for the lyrics, Elizabeth! as you can see, I had the romanji, but not the kanji. Could you tell me where you got that? I couldnt find any site that had it.

There was also another site that had the guitar tabs if you're interested in that.

Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos

 

[tasuki]

After doing a bit more research (asking my wife), apparently, ﾂ「邃｢z窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ」refers to feminine elegance (as in when women dress up elegantly with kimonos, yukatas, or in western terms gowns, dresses, etc.). So if I reformulate the passage I translated this morning (for me), it would definitely come out as (said from the perspective of a man) "Despite your fathomless eyes, your lack of eloquence, and your ugly crying face, I still admire your elegance."

 

[Elizabeth]

Originally posted by tasuki
After doing a bit more research (asking my wife), apparently, ﾂ「邃｢z窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ」refers to feminine elegance (as in when women dress up elegantly with kimonos, yukatas, or in western terms gowns, dresses, etc.). So if I reformulate the passage I translated this morning (for me), it would definitely come out as (said from the perspective of a man) "Despite your fathomless eyes, your lack of eloquence, and your ugly crying face, I still admire your elegance."

OK, thanks again--that clarifies things quite a bit. At least elegance wouldn't seem to conflict with those other things quite as strongly as haughtiness or proud figure.

 

[tasuki]

Well, let's just say that ﾂ「邃｢z窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ」is not one of your most common expressions... Definitely not something that is likely to come up in daily convo...

This is almost certainly the same use of intonation "ja nai" as Tasuki explained above. Just answer OK, won't you? Immediately.

窶佚･窶懌?凪?堋ｽ窶堙ｨﾂ！

ﾂ広窶堋｢ﾂ青｢ﾅ?E窶堙?出ﾋ?ｧ窶堋ｦ窶堋ｽﾅ?ﾃｯﾂ静票/QUOTE]

This could probably be translated in a more natural way as "Think of the chances of the two us meeting in a world so full of people"... but wait, that sounds like a line out of some cheezy drama But winampman, simply put, the ﾅ?ﾃｯﾂ静 affects the whole before it. In other words, the miracle is ﾂ「ﾂ広窶堋｢ﾂ青｢ﾅ?E窶堙?出ﾋ?ｧ窶堋ｦ窶堋ｽﾂ」窶堋ｱ窶堙??堙??堋ｷﾂ。It's the typical Japanese way of avoiding the use conjunctions and such.

By the way, if I may ask winampman, are you translating the song out of personal interest or are you pursuing more serious objectives in doing so?

 

[winampman]

窶堋?窶堙? 窶堋ｨ窶堙や?堋ｩ窶堙ｪ窶堋ｳ窶堙?! 窶堋｢窶堙?窶堋ｱ窶堙娯?ｰﾃ娯?堙ｰ窶堙?窶堙≫?堙?渉ｭ窶堋ｵ窶板昶?ｰﾃｰ窶堋ｵ窶堙??堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｷ!








( I hope I said that correctly.. )

Originally posted by tasuki
By the way, if I may ask winampman, are you translating the song out of personal interest or are you pursuing more serious objectives in doing so? [/B]

I'd say personal intrest... though I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "serious objectives"... but anyways..
I'm (attempting to!) translate this song for myself and some of my non-japanese speaking friends who are also Do As Infinity fans. Well... I suppose its more for myself, since my friends have listened to Do As Infinity for some time now without understanding much of the lyrics... so they arent as interested in lyrics or the Japanese language as I am. Of course.. they're still more than curious to see a translation.
I've been studying Japanese at school for three years now.. and I'm going to continue doing so in the coming years until I'm as good as you are!

 

[tasuki]

Instead of 窶堙?窶堙≫?堙?渉ｭ窶堋ｵ, try 窶堙?窶堋､ﾂ渉ｭ窶堋ｵ or 窶楼窶堙ｦ窶堙ｨ next time. Other than that, good job...

I find it interesting that you do this for fun. It's certainly not the first thing that would have crossed my mind to improve my Japanese as lyrics are often not very grammatically correct and full of (as we saw) metaphors that are often difficult for non-native speakers of Japanese to understand. But, it's nice to see that you've got an interest in the language. It shows that your interest for Japan is more serious than that of your friends.

Good luck with your studies. I hope that you'll be able to put all that knowledge to good use in the future. Planning on dropping by some time soon?

Oh, and by the way, my Japanese is not that good. I understand more than I can formulate correctly. Yet, I learned it on the spot. 4 and a half years ago, I couldn't read katakana (let alone speak!). Now, I read manga and novels in Japanese on a regular basis. I think it's really all a matter of will, so keep at it.

 

[winampman]

Originally posted by tasuki
Instead of 窶堙?窶堙≫?堙?渉ｭ窶堋ｵ, try 窶堙?窶堋､ﾂ渉ｭ窶堋ｵ or 窶楼窶堙ｦ窶堙ｨ next time. Other than that, good job...

Darn.. at first I did mou sukoshi but then I changed it... I wanted to say, "Now I understand the song a little more"

Originally posted by tasuki
I find it interesting that you do this for fun. It's certainly not the first thing that would have crossed my mind to improve my Japanese as lyrics are often not very grammatically correct and full of (as we saw) metaphors that are often difficult for non-native speakers of Japanese to understand.

Yes... I just realized that as well.. lol
I find it quite interesting to dig out the meanings of lyrics and other things I'm interested in. With the example of lyrics, I dont always understand a lot of the Jpop/Jrock songs I listen to.. If I like a song without fully understanding the lyrics, then its even better to be able to get some meaning out of the lyrics. I still can't translate a lot of songs though. Do As Infinity just happens to be near my level of understanding... except for the occasional metaphor of course.

Originally posted by tasuki
Good luck with your studies. I hope that you'll be able to put all that knowledge to good use in the future. Planning on dropping by some time soon?

Doumo arigatou, and I sure hope I can put it to good use in the future... I don't know if I can drop by anytime soon... I'm going to be busy with college stuff for the next few years, but after that...

Originally posted by tasuki
Oh, and by the way, my Japanese is not that good. I understand more than I can formulate correctly. Yet, I learned it on the spot. 4 and a half years ago, I couldn't read katakana (let alone speak!). Now, I read manga and novels in Japanese on a regular basis. I think it's really all a matter of will, so keep at it.

I also understand more than I can formulate... But O_O Only four and a half years?! Wow... I suppose living in Japan and being surrounded by Japanese 24/7 speeds up the learning... but nevertheless thats good to hear... Thanks again.

 

[tasuki]

Darn.. at first I did mou sukoshi but then I changed it... I wanted to say, "Now I understand the song a little more"

I know. There's a lot to say for your first instincts. 窶堙?窶堙≫?堙?渉ｭ窶堋ｵ is the litteral translation of a little more, eh? I still do that a lot, too, so don't worry.

I find it quite interesting to dig out the meanings of lyrics and other things I'm interested in. With the example of lyrics, I dont always understand a lot of the Jpop/Jrock songs I listen to.. If I like a song without fully understanding the lyrics, then its even better to be able to get some meaning out of the lyrics. I still can't translate a lot of songs though. Do As Infinity just happens to be near my level of understanding... except for the occasional metaphor of course.

Well, as long as you get something out of it. That's the main thing. Personally, I tend not to translate too much, but rather understand in its own terms... That didn't come out right... For example, if someone says 窶禿 to me, instead of thinking "tree", I see a picture of a tree in my head... Of course, that's not always possible, but I've found that it quickens my response time in Japanese. When I taught English here, I found that because Japanese are taught to learn English that way (hear-translate-formulate answer in Japanese-retranslate-speak out), they are sometimes extremely slow on the uptake when you speak to them in English. Used to remind me of old binary computers with punch cards...

I also understand more than I can formulate... But O_O Only four and a half years?! Wow... I suppose living in Japan and being surrounded by Japanese 24/7 speeds up the learning... but nevertheless thats good to hear... Thanks again.

It does, it does. Of course... If you're willing to learn. Because without wanting to sound pretentious, I've had to put a lot of effort into it as well. I ran across and know people who've been here for up to twice as long as me and can still barely manage to order in a restaurant. But they are just not interested in learning and mostly hang out with foreigners and English speaking Japanese, so they don't have to learn. You'd be surprised just how easy it is to do that here...

 

[winampman]

Ah... OK... this is the very last part that I'm not sure of. These two lines are midway into the song..

窶ｰﾂｽ窶堙ｦ窶堙ｨ窶佚･ﾂ静倪?堙遺?堋ｱ窶堙??堙ｰ
窶堋?窶堙遺?堋ｽ窶堙坂?冦窶堙≫?堙??堙ｩﾂ　窶堙銀?堙?！

The second line is easy enough... ("You know, don't you?") but the first line is quite irregular... -_-;;

 

[tasuki]

Actually, it's one of the most regular lines... Run together, both lines could read as "You know what the most important thing of all is don't you?"

窶ｰﾂｽ窶堙ｦ窶堙ｨ or 窶ｰﾂｽ窶堙ｦ窶堙ｨ窶堙? means "more than anything else" or "above all". For example 窶ｰﾂｽ窶堙ｦ窶堙ｨ窶ｹﾂｭ窶堋ｭ strongest. 窶ｰﾂｽ窶堙ｦ窶堙ｨﾋ?ｫ窶堋ｭ worst of all.

I think she's hinting at something that she's not explicitly saying in the song, and I think that's love. She says that right after talking about her puffed up crying face and her lack of eloquence, right? Meaning that love can conquer anything. I think.

 

[winampman]

Originally posted by tasuki
Personally, I tend not to translate too much, but rather understand in its own terms...

Ah, I know what you mean... When a response is expected, I guess its more important to understand the main idea; if you can do that, then figuring out the exact meaning becomes pointless. I had to do exactly that during some listening tests I had to do... and it was still pretty hard! lol

Originally posted by tasuki
It does, it does. Of course... If you're willing to learn. Because without wanting to sound pretentious, I've had to put a lot of effort into it as well. I ran across and know people who've been here for up to twice as long as me and can still barely manage to order in a restaurant. But they are just not interested in learning and mostly hang out with foreigners and English speaking Japanese, so they don't have to learn. You'd be surprised just how easy it is to do that here...

Hmm... thats interesting... obviously if you want to do something and put your mind to it, you'll get it done sooner or later... and if you don't put your mind to it, those people you know (who dont understand Japanese as well as you) show what can happen.

 

[winampman]

Originally posted by tasuki
Actually, it's one of the most regular lines... Run together, both lines could read as "You know what the most important thing of all is don't you?"

lol.. what I had in mind was something like, "Nothing is more ?? than important things; You know, don't you?"
You can see what tripped me up...
-_- sorry to trouble you so much.. besides this forum, theres no way for me to check to see if I'm right. My two dictionaries and a grammar dictionary/book didnt help much at all...

窶堋ｨ窶堙や?堋ｩ窶堙ｪ窶堋ｳ窶堙 窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。ﾂ。

 

[tasuki]

Hey, it's absolutely no problem. If it were, I wouldn't be posting on this board. I know Japanese ressources are scarce for learners in North America. Bet you're from the east or the mid-west, right? If you have any more trouble, feel free to drop me a personal message or an e-mail.