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ivan01147

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Hello all,

Like the title stated, I wondering if its possible to register a new bicycle bought online with the police on a 90 day tourist visa.

I am aware that you need the recipe of purchase, ID and the actual bike itself to register. However the only form of ID I have is my passport. I do have an address of the apartment that I have rented for the course of the 90 days I'll be staying here to register with.

Thanks!
 

Mike Cash

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According to Q3 on this site, you need your alien registration card...which is something you don't have... to register a bicycle. You need something official that has your address on it. You may be able to get by with your passport and something showing you have leased the place you're staying. It all depends on what kind of a stickler for the rules you run into when you go to register it.

You also should print out and fill in this form to take with you.

You can register at any bicycle shop or other place which sells bicycles, even if you didn't buy your bike from them; they are required to do the registration for you regardless.
 
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In Japan you have to register a bicycle? Do they also make you register your shoes?

What if you choose to travel by pogo stick? Would you have to register it?
 

WonkoTheSane

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In Japan you have to register a bicycle? Do they also make you register your shoes?

What if you choose to travel by pogo stick? Would you have to register it?

Why wouldn't a bike need to be registered? It's classified as a vehicle and vehicles need to be registered.
 

Mike Cash

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In Japan you have to register a bicycle? Do they also make you register your shoes?

What if you choose to travel by pogo stick? Would you have to register it?

Registration used to be voluntary. It was made mandatory a few years ago. It is just a system meant for tracking ownership and discouraging theft.
 

ivan01147

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Thanks Mike for the info. I just went and gave it a shot today, got it registered and they didn't even ask for my ID. They took a look at the receipt and that's all. I guess it really depends on the shop and clerk.

P.S. I got it registered at yoyogi recycle garden if anyone was wondering (no guarantee its gonna go perfectly smoothly though.)
 

Mike Cash

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Thanks Mike for the info. I just went and gave it a shot today, got it registered and they didn't even ask for my ID. They took a look at the receipt and that's all. I guess it really depends on the shop and clerk.

P.S. I got it registered at yoyogi recycle garden if anyone was wondering (no guarantee its gonna go perfectly smoothly though.)

Presumably the receipt had your address on it? Glad to hear it went well. What kind of bike did you get?
 
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I always thought only motor vehicles were subject to registration. Folks hereabouts would object to registering bicycles, pogo sticks, or any other non-motorized conveyance.

Trying to prevent theft? Why isn't that the owner's responsibility? Government do-gooding has no end.
 

Mike Cash

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I always thought only motor vehicles were subject to registration. Folks hereabouts would object to registering bicycles, pogo sticks, or any other non-motorized conveyance.

Trying to prevent theft? Why isn't that the owner's responsibility? Government do-gooding has no end.

Some mildly interesting statistics on bicycle theft in Japan on pages 35 and 36 of this NPA White Paper.

Number of bicycles stolen each year? It would probably stun many foreigners who believe the myth that crime is practically non-existent in Japan.

Chances the thief will be caught and prosecuted? Dismally low.

Chances the thief will be a juvenile? Overwhelming.

Chances your stolen bicycle will be recovered and returned to you? A bit under half.
 

WonkoTheSane

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I always thought only motor vehicles were subject to registration. Folks hereabouts would object to registering bicycles, pogo sticks, or any other non-motorized conveyance.

Trying to prevent theft? Why isn't that the owner's responsibility? Government do-gooding has no end.
I'll just leave this here:

Japan vs United States Crime Stats Compared

I like living in a safe country. If that means I do things like register my bicycle I'm happy to do so. I like leaving my umbrella outside stores, my bag at the table when I use the bathroom, and my door unlocked.

While you're celebrating your freedom from draconian bicycle registration laws, I'll celebrate my freedom from most crime.
 

WonkoTheSane

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Some mildly interesting statistics on bicycle theft in Japan on pages 35 and 36 of this NPA White Paper.

Number of bicycles stolen each year? It would probably stun many foreigners who believe the myth that crime is practically non-existent in Japan.

Chances the thief will be caught and prosecuted? Dismally low.

Chances the thief will be a juvenile? Overwhelming.

Chances your stolen bicycle will be recovered and returned to you? A bit under half.
I guess the way I see it, the overall rate of crime is low, and it's due in part to the organization of laws in Japan. Not every stat is reflective of the dhole, but I'll take the overall statistics.

But I'm no expert, so I'm likely wrong.
 
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“Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither." - Benjamin Franklin

I lived in Japan long enough to know that Japan is different from the US in more ways than the crime statistics; the statistics are largely determined by these differences. The Japanese are somewhat like the Germans in that they never seem to meet a new law they don't love. I've heard that the Germans even have laws about the time of day you can mow your lawn.

Some Americans, and most Alaskans, are resentful of new rules and regulations and social engineering. Government rule-making is more about control of the people than eliminating crime. I bet Japan's new bicycle registration law hasn't cured the problem of bicycle theft.
 

Mike Cash

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I bet Japan's new bicycle registration law hasn't cured the problem of bicycle theft.

Since the law merely mandates that registration be carried out by some entity specified by local governments, I strongly suspect that it was just a political payoff to guarantee money for the people who run the non-government entity that handles the registration. A very little digging would most likely turn up some police or bureaucrat amakudari sitting on their boards and drawing some fat "advisor" fees for a no-show job.

Bicycle registration goes way back, but was not made mandatory until 1994 (there are no sanctions or penalties for not registering). Data indicates that the number of reported bicycle thefts in fact increased dramatically in the period following the implementation of the law, prior to steadily declining to numbers now only somewhat lower than they were in 1993. Interestingly, in the period when it was still voluntary, the bulk of stolen bicycles were in fact registered bicycles. Quite obviously, merely attaching a registration sticker does squat to discourage theft. The only area where it made a significant difference was in the chances you would have your bicycle returned to you later....and return rates now are similar to the return rates for unregistered bicycles prior to the law. Returns of registered bicycles have dropped significantly.

平成6年 警察白書
 
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madphysicist

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“Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither." - Benjamin Franklin

I lived in Japan long enough to know that Japan is different from the US in more ways than the crime statistics; the statistics are largely determined by these differences. The Japanese are somewhat like the Germans in that they never seem to meet a new law they don't love. I've heard that the Germans even have laws about the time of day you can mow your lawn.

Some Americans, and most Alaskans, are resentful of new rules and regulations and social engineering. Government rule-making is more about control of the people than eliminating crime. I bet Japan's new bicycle registration law hasn't cured the problem of bicycle theft.

Okay so what about registering your car? Is that a bad idea? Is that giving up your liberty to drive around in an unregistered car?

Someone who complains about noise regulation has clearly never spent a decent amount of time in a country with no such regulation, no consideration for neighbours, and a culture of "eh, it's not our problem...". I can tell you I am very glad to be living in Germany and no longer in Rome, where I didn't have a proper night's sleep for 5 months.

By the sounds of it it takes very little time and effort to register a bicycle, I really don't see what the issue is.
 

ivan01147

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Thats some detailed history here, pretty interesting actually And I bought a doppleganger cross bike (403 Monarch) for 13000 yen on amazon. Its a really nice bike considering the price; seeing that brand new mamacharies are about the same price. It's new too and I was so hyped.

Then reality hits >.>
Got the bike registered and right after found out the rear wheel inner tubing is punctured somehow so the back wheels basically flat. Now I gotta send the whole thing back to amazon for a refund and now my question is does the fact that i've registered it to my name pose a problem when returning the entire bike back to distributing company?

I'm even more lost than before haha, any input is welcomed. Thanks in advance.
 

WonkoTheSane

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Everybody gives up a certain amount of liberty and each country has a different set of rules.

In the USA, even though I'm not Christian, I was limited on alcohol purchase based on the Christian holy day. I was limited in where I could drink that alcohol and how it had to be covered while carrying it home.

I'm currently limited due to my USA citizenship in how I can invest my money. I am not allowed to visit Cuba.

I'm pretty sure old Ben wasn't raging against the bicycle-industrial complex.

I'd wager that, taken objectively, the USA is not all that free compared to many other countries.
 

WonkoTheSane

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I'll also note that the correct quote is "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I'd have a hard time justifying the freedom to not register a bicycle as 'essential liberty.'
 

madphysicist

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Thats some detailed history here, pretty interesting actually And I bought a doppleganger cross bike (403 Monarch) for 13000 yen on amazon. Its a really nice bike considering the price; seeing that brand new mamacharies are about the same price. It's new too and I was so hyped.

Then reality hits >.>
Got the bike registered and right after found out the rear wheel inner tubing is punctured somehow so the back wheels basically flat. Now I gotta send the whole thing back to amazon for a refund and now my question is does the fact that i've registered it to my name pose a problem when returning the entire bike back to distributing company?

I'm even more lost than before haha, any input is welcomed. Thanks in advance.

Hmm maybe go back to the bike shop and ask them? They might have experience with that kind of issue. Were you given a registration card? It says on the website that if you're giving your bike to someone else, you can just give them the card with the bike.

Or if you speak Japanese you can try looking here for the answer:
東京都自転車商防犯協力会
 

Mike Cash

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Thats some detailed history here, pretty interesting actually And I bought a doppleganger cross bike (403 Monarch) for 13000 yen on amazon. Its a really nice bike considering the price; seeing that brand new mamacharies are about the same price. It's new too and I was so hyped.

Then reality hits >.>
Got the bike registered and right after found out the rear wheel inner tubing is punctured somehow so the back wheels basically flat. Now I gotta send the whole thing back to amazon for a refund and now my question is does the fact that i've registered it to my name pose a problem when returning the entire bike back to distributing company?

I'm even more lost than before haha, any input is welcomed. Thanks in advance.

I believe I would just take it to a bicycle shop, have the tube repaired or replaced, and maybe ask the vendor for a refund of the cost of that.

Edit:

I just looked up the bike on Amazon. Is this it?

http://www.amazon.co.jp/DOPPELGANGE...F8&qid=1459525378&sr=8-1&keywords=Monarch+403

I'm wondering, because it shows up for me as 23k, not 13k.

If that's the one, based off tbe reviews I wouldn't have touched it with a ten foot pole. You're not the first one to have instant tire/tube problems. There is at least one report there of discovering the damaged tube was the wrong size for the wheel to begin with. Also issues with the rear brake and with the product having scratches upon arrival, and I only read the few reviews on the main page.
 
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Ben Franklin actually made several different versions of his famous quote. What Our Fore Fathers Thought

So where do you draw the line on registering your stuff with the government? Only wheeled conveyances? What about roller skates and skate boards? If they tell you to register your shoes, would you do it?

Since they evidently have no penalty for failing to register your bike, why would you do it? Legislation without sanction is mere advice.
 

WonkoTheSane

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Ben Franklin actually made several different versions of his famous quote. What Our Fore Fathers Thought

So where do you draw the line on registering your stuff with the government? Only wheeled conveyances? What about roller skates and skate boards? If they tell you to register your shoes, would you do it?

Since they evidently have no penalty for failing to register your bike, why would you do it? Legislation without sanction is mere advice.
Where do you draw the line?

Why aren't you so up in arms about registering your car in the USA? Isn't that just as much of giving up liberty? How about a moped, they can be outpaced by a cyclist and can cost less than some bikes.

I'm a little baffled that you think registering a bicycle is such an affront to your freedom.

We all submit to government intervention and regulations, why are the ones to which you're accustomed so much less restrictive than the ones to which you're unaccustomed?
 

Mike Cash

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Since they evidently have no penalty for failing to register your bike, why would you do it?

Vaccination against the hassle that will ensue if stopped by the police with no registration sticker on the thing. I'd rather pay the 500 yen than have to remember to carry proof that I own the thing every time I ride it or risk the aggravation and waste of time of accompanying a bunch of cops to the police box to cool my heels while waiting for them to satisfy themselves the bike isn't stolen and that it actually belongs to me.

This isn't a nation of people with a history of principled civil disobedience or questioning authority in general.

A few years ago I was waiting during the noon break at one of the container yards in Tokyo. Several guys wearing official arm bands showing to be from the Tokyo tax office went down the rows of trucks, introduced themselves, and said they were there to take fuel samples (to test for adulterated diesel, a sign of tax-dodging). Everybody simply got out of their trucks, unlocked their fuel cap, and unquestioningly gave up the samples.

I was the only one who asked them if they had a warrant to confiscate private property or if they could tell me what statute authorized it and obligated me to surrender it. They told me it was strictly voluntary. I told them in that case I would be glad to cooperate and opened my tank for them.

There is very little sense of awareness of civil liberties here and the need to exercise them. People follow rules unquestioningly, for the most part, and seldom point out if a rule is asinine, pointless, counterproductive, or outdated. And this country is the home of ineffectual and pointless security and crime prevention measures.
 
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My opposition is diminished greatly after I learned the bicycle registration is voluntary. If I was visiting Japan and stopped by the police, I would cooperate fully because I'm a guest in their country. If the cops stopped me here and asked for proof my bike was not stolen, I'd probably tell them to go fly a kite. And if they have probable cause to believe I'd stolen the bike, they could arrest me I suppose.

I live in an especially libertarian state of the US, where people do not like bureaucrats telling us what to do. They tried to introduce photo radar here about fifteen years ago, and there was mass resistance until they finally rescinded the law. My wife got a ticket in the mail, and being Japanese she wanted to pay it, but I told her forget it because no one else was paying their tickets.

As far as noise goes, people mostly try to be considerate. Or most do. We don't need laws telling us when we can mow our lawns. I live off a private airstrip, and every now and then in summer some pilot takes off at midnight --small planes make a great deal of noise taking off, and there's enough light to fly by without instruments all summer night at this latitude. Every now and then our airstrip homeowner's association debates whether to limit the hours of operation, but the idea never flies (if you'll forgive a pun). Maybe a late-flying pilot is trying to beat bad weather out where he's heading or something. Usually they have a good reason if they're taking off at midnight. If they wake me up, I just roll over and go back to sleep.
 

madphysicist

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As far as noise goes, people mostly try to be considerate. Or most do. We don't need laws telling us when we can mow our lawns. I live off a private airstrip, and every now and then in summer some pilot takes off at midnight --small planes make a great deal of noise taking off, and there's enough light to fly by without instruments all summer night at this latitude. Every now and then our airstrip homeowner's association debates whether to limit the hours of operation, but the idea never flies (if you'll forgive a pun). Maybe a late-flying pilot is trying to beat bad weather out where he's heading or something. Usually they have a good reason if they're taking off at midnight. If they wake me up, I just roll over and go back to sleep.

If you already know what constitutes reasonable hours to mow your lawn, then the law would make zero difference to you, so what do you care? Of course even if there's a law some people will ignore it, but the point is that if someone is subjected to their neighbour making intolerable levels of noise in the middle of the night, they have the law on their side when they make a complaint. Lucky you if you have never had to put up with more than a mild annoyance, but it's not always possible to just roll over, especially if the noise is persistent throughout the night.

And the fact that Japanese (or German) people will generally follow a rule that many people in other countries would ignore because it's inconvenient to them means that making an official rule is usually a great deal more effective than relying on people's conscience alone.
 

mdchachi

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Since they evidently have no penalty for failing to register your bike, why would you do it? Legislation without sanction is mere advice.
When I moved to Japan I shipped my bicycle which was one of those old-style 10-speed bikes with drop-handle bars. It was just a cheap one built out of various secondhand pieces but it looked unusual, the kind you never saw in Japan. I used it mainly to ride to the train station. Only a couple months or less into my stay it was stolen from the train station parking area despite the fact that I had one of those heavy duty U-locks on it making it unridable. (But I hadn't locked it to anything.) I made a police report but it was pretty obvious without some way to identify it it was a lost cause. I didn't even have a picture of it. In hindsight I would have registered it had I known it was possible. Of course I realize I probably still wouldn't have gotten it back. Actually the brakes were poor and it wasn't a good bike for riding around the crowded areas in Setagaya-ku. So it may have been a good thing that I lost it. So now it's just a memory & anecdote from my Japan days.

We don't need laws telling us when we can mow our lawns.
Unfortunately we do. If there's one thing I've learned in all my years, there are many people who are not considerate and just a handful tend to spoil it for the rest of us. There's a reason why these laws appear on the books and it's not because people are sitting around dreaming up restrictions. It's because some i-diot will insist on mowing their lawn, playing loud music, etc. at midnight or whenever and there will be no legal way to prevent it. Usually those types of selfish people won't respond to a friendly "hey we're trying to get some sleep, could you turn it down?" request.
 
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