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Australia airline 'fat tax' urged

Tokis-Phoenix

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23 Sep 2005
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"A leading Australian nutritionist has urged airlines to charge obese passengers more for their seats.

Dr John Tickell believes a "fat tax" would highlight his country's obesity crisis and make commercial sense, as heavier loads increase fuel costs.

But health groups have warned that to single out people with weight problems could cause them emotional stress.

Recent studies estimate that 67% of Australian men and over half of women aged over 25 are overweight or obese.

Experts have warned that by 2030 half of the country's children will be overweight or obese if the problem goes unchecked.

In March, Australian health officials were forced to equip their fleet of ambulances with heavy-duty stretchers to cope with the sharp rise in overweight patients";

Full story;

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Australia airline 'fat tax' urged





I think its a great idea if there was a fat tax on airlines. I know its a harsh idea, but its a fair idea.

""I think we're a bit too nice, we're a bit too precious about minority groups. I think the majority group must have something to say too," he added."


I agree with this above statement concerning obesity


""It's not fair to single out those people who have a problem, which is already impacting greatly on their life, and make them feel like pariahs," he said."



Yes these people have a problem, but it is a problem which in the large majority of cases is self-inflicted, why should people of good body weight have to suffer for those which are obese?

Don't get me wrong, i do sympathise for fat people and i do not choose my friends based on their weight, as far as i am concerned someone who weighs 20 stone could be just as nice a person as someone who weighs 10 stone.

But obesity is a major problem which is on the rise that many western societies face, and we need to do something about it, because otherwise we are heading for major health problems in this country which will put a severe financial strain on our health systems.

Tobacco and alcohol is expensive because it is taxed a great deal (minus the tax the products actually cost very little), the reason why it is taxed is because people who drink a alcohol or smoke tobacco are more likely to suffer health problems than those who don't, so the tax is needed to help pay for health problems brought about by these substances- if there wasn't such a high tax on alcohol and tobacco, health services would be even more financially strained and there would be even less money to fund better treatments for health problems brought about by these substances and more. The tax gained from these things is vital for our health services etc.


We can't tax unhealthy foods though (although if there was a good and fair way to do it, it wouldn't be such a bad idea) because even the most fattening of foods won't necessarily cause you to become overweight as long as you eat them in moderation or avoid eating them altogether.


So what do we do to help discourage people from becomming fat or fatter and where are we going to get the money for the ever increasingly strain these obesity problems are putting on our health services?



Yes, taxing obese people on plains may make them feel worse about their weight problems (and this may cause them to be even fatter depending on the reasons why their over-eat), but you could also say at the same time it may give the encouragement and motivation to some fat people to really seek help about their problems by making them more aware about how big they really are.
Like how with how many anorexics think they are bigger than what they really are, many obese people are also in denial about their weight problems and don't deal with them. If we are too kind to the obesity problem and too accepting of it how can we expect to make the obesity problem any better?


Yes maybe it will make obese people feel more excluded from society, but you can't let that get in the way- it would be like saying its not fair to have a smoking ban for indoor public places because it makes smokers feel more excluded from society.
As far as i am concerned you can do whatever you want with your body, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be expected to deal with the consequences of your actions/choices and shouldn't expect everyone to be happy and accepting of your actions/choices etc. The fact of the matter is that times are changing.
I smoke and i had to deal with the consequences of the ban on indoor smoking in public places, personally the ban didn't effect me much at all. I don't see why though that fat/obese people don't have to deal with the consequences of their actions though if they are having a detrimental effect on society.
Yes, some people really are overweight through no real fault of their own- one example i can give is one of my aunts, she used to be really slim but after going through and abusive marriage and suffering from certain health problems she developed bad depression and some other mental problems, so she was prescribed some medication to help her live with these problems so she could lead a normal and happy life (which now she does). The side effect of the medication though is that it made her fat, and she went from a size 6 to a size 16.
However, i would say that for the majority of overweight/fat/obese people their weight problems really are their own fault, and they are simply fat because they put the wrong foods or too much food in their mouths, and that the only person that can solve their weight problems is theirself.


I have suffered discomfort because of other people being obese.
For example, paying for tickets to go to Australia to see my family is very expensive and takes a whole year to save up for such a trip, the journey on the plain is very long and i expect to fly to australia in relevant comfort considering how expensive the tickets are. But it is really bad when you are stuck in economy class where the seats and space are already very small and the person sitting next to you is very obese and their fat is pushing through into your seat, under the arm rest and over it, leaving you pushing against the far side of your side with no arm rest space- you are left in a position which is not comfortable and which you can hardly relax in and let alone get any sleep in during the very long flight journey on the plane.
The the fat person needs to go to the toilet and they can barely sqeeze past you, so you either have to get out of your seat completely or suffer having the life squished out of your already numb legs while having their fat bum squeeze just inches away from your face. All night you are kept awake from them opening packets of peanuts and crisps as they munch loudly, feeding their weight problems. And don't get me started on the farts.

In a case such as this, wouldn't it just be better and far more comfortable for both of us, me and the fat person, if the fat person just payed for the extra seat they obviously need, and let me enjoy my flight journey in as much comfort as i posibly can (given that i also have a fear of flying)?

It would be good if planes did extra large seats for fat people, but at the end of the day they are always going to be more expensive than standard size seats since flying planes is a buisness and not a charity.


Anyways...I haven't completely made up my mind about this, and i know my opinions could be taken as very controversial or offensive to some. But i just think more needs to be done about the obesity problem.


What do you think about this whole subject?
 
Oh, another example i can think of on this subject, is that a few years ago i went up to another city a long distance away from where i live to visit a good friend of mine i hadn't seen in ages.
We planned to have a good night out together with some friends and visit some clubs and pubs, but she lived a fair distance away from the places we wanted to visit on our night out so we needed to take a long bus journey to get to these places after meeting up at her house.

After a relatively long walk down to the bus stop we got on the bus and payed for our tickets, but we were all a bit knackered out so we really wanted to sit down. The bus was really full and there was a really fat lady who was sitting down and taking up 2 whole large seats (of which if she hadn't been sitting on them we could have fitted 3 of us on the seats), this woman was only holding one ticket in her hand.
Why should she only have to pay for 1 seat when she is actually taking up two seats? There was a pregnant mother on the bus with a baby in a pram who was having to stand up, if the fat lady hadn't have been so fat the pregnant mother could have sat on them and giving her legs a rest (after the fat lady left the bus we let the pregnant lady and her kid sit on the fat ladys seats).

I know it sounds harsh, but i think whatever the situation, if you take up two seats you should pay for those two seats even if you are just one individual, its only fair?
 
At the end of the day, if the airline is giving out free tickets for extra seats for fat people, thats going to be reflected in and bump up the prices people of good weight pay for.
If you bring extra luggage on the plain you have to pay for it, if you want a seat to put your bag on you have to pay for it. Fat people should have to pay for the extra seats they take up just like anyone else would have to pay for them due to other reasons etc.
 
Can there be a smelly person charge added? I always get someone who believes bathing and good hygiene isn't a necessity sitting next to me.

I think picking on fat/overweight people is considered acceptable to most people. Don't "passenger's of size" already have to buy 2 tickets? I know for a fact that they do on several US airlines. Southwest is one of them.

When has picking on someone's faults ever encouraged them. It's demoralizing and usually had the reverse affect. Especially for people who are emotional eaters. Humiliate them and you'll cause them to emotionally eat even more. And who is to be the judge of the person? Should we all stand on scale before boarding, or would we need a doctor's note to buy a ticket saying we are average weight?
 
Can there be a smelly person charge added? I always get someone who believes bathing and good hygiene isn't a necessity sitting next to me.

I think picking on fat/overweight people is considered acceptable to most people. Don't "passenger's of size" already have to buy 2 tickets? I know for a fact that they do on several US airlines. Southwest is one of them.

When has picking on someone's faults ever encouraged them. It's demoralizing and usually had the reverse affect. Especially for people who are emotional eaters. Humiliate them and you'll cause them to emotionally eat even more. And who is to be the judge of the person? Should we all stand on scale before boarding, or would we need a doctor's note to buy a ticket saying we are average weight?



Hm i don't think picking on fat/overweight people is considered acceptable in society (in fact i think people are making others accept fat people even more), at least for me its very difficult to raise the subject.

But it isn't about picking on people's faults at all, its about making the system fairer when it comes to airlines. Do you not things its unfair that someone should get a free seat just because they're fat? Do you not think its unfair that you should get charged more because of this?

If half the people on a plane are obese then that adds greatly to the load the plane is carrying- it costs the plane more fuel to travel a certain distances, and that extra fuel cost is reflected in the price of the tickets you pay. Why should you have to pay more for someone else's self-inflicted problems? 99% of obese people are obese from over-eating.
People get charged more if they want to bring heavy luggage on a plane, why shouldn't people be charged more if they choose to be heavier? At the end of the day, the majority of obese people only have themselves to blame for their weight problems.


Saying its picking on people's faults would be like saying its unfair to ask someone to smoke outdoors, what if that person is an emotional smoker who smokes to help deal with their emotional problems (and a lot of people do do that) and by making them feel excluded you are only making them feel worse?
 
I know that obese people HAVE to buy two tickets on many airlines. I think there is a system already in place. I do also feel that people feel very free to comment on overweight people, we are doing it right now! I think they are made to feel like they are less. Yep people get fat for a variety of reasons, but none of it is my business. Smoking can't be compared with someone's weight. A fat person can't cause you to have cancer! Please move your fat, it might be contagious!
 
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Interesting topic and problem. . . as usual, a problem that can be seen as not really being a problem, like so many other problems that we make problems out of. (if you know what I mean. . . although this thinking could be a problem in itself)

F A T. . . it is different from just BIG. It is not something that makes a being so quick in movement in many, if not in 99% of the cases of being fat. It can add extra texture to the form and mass studies in the visual arts. And, as has been pointed out, it can add weight to vehicle loads.

I'll have to beg forgiveness for not having had the time to consider it all so much in detail, yet would tend to reason that the underscoring reason for the suggestion of that airline tax for the 'big-sized,' is the concern of national security. I don't mean national security in the sense that the American government is so jealously trying to promote, but simple the broad and general concern of a nation state as an individual enitiy among other nation states.

Health conditions being held aside, a single community wherein every 8 out of 10 people were incoveniently over weight, would not be a very strong community--so the thinking goes. This, as far as I can see at the moment, is the source of such concern for that suggestion.

I like the 'if you take up the space of more than one seat, naturally, you have to pay for two' idea. It directs itself not only to fatness, but simply to size. (of course, this is pretty much just a soft way to say fat, because the human skeletal frame does not alter so much.

Presenting it as a 'tax,' I would tend to think, would be negative, in that the very word itself, 'TAX,' carries very negative connotations in most of our minds. I would say go for the two seat idea, rather than the tax idea.
 
"A leading Australian nutritionist has urged airlines to charge obese passengers more for their seats.

Dr John Tickell believes a "fat tax" would highlight his country's obesity crisis and make commercial sense, as heavier loads increase fuel costs.

But health groups have warned that to single out people with weight problems could cause them emotional stress.

Recent studies estimate that 67% of Australian men and over half of women aged over 25 are overweight or obese.

Experts have warned that by 2030 half of the country's children will be overweight or obese if the problem goes unchecked.

In March, Australian health officials were forced to equip their fleet of ambulances with heavy-duty stretchers to cope with the sharp rise in overweight patients";

Full story;

BBC NEWS | World | Asia-Pacific | Australia airline 'fat tax' urged





I think its a great idea if there was a fat tax on airlines. I know its a harsh idea, but its a fair idea.

""I think we're a bit too nice, we're a bit too precious about minority groups. I think the majority group must have something to say too," he added."


I agree with this above statement concerning obesity


""It's not fair to single out those people who have a problem, which is already impacting greatly on their life, and make them feel like pariahs," he said."



Yes these people have a problem, but it is a problem which in the large majority of cases is self-inflicted, why should people of good body weight have to suffer for those which are obese?

Don't get me wrong, i do sympathise for fat people and i do not choose my friends based on their weight, as far as i am concerned someone who weighs 20 stone could be just as nice a person as someone who weighs 10 stone.

But obesity is a major problem which is on the rise that many western societies face, and we need to do something about it, because otherwise we are heading for major health problems in this country which will put a severe financial strain on our health systems.

Tobacco and alcohol is expensive because it is taxed a great deal (minus the tax the products actually cost very little), the reason why it is taxed is because people who drink a alcohol or smoke tobacco are more likely to suffer health problems than those who don't, so the tax is needed to help pay for health problems brought about by these substances- if there wasn't such a high tax on alcohol and tobacco, health services would be even more financially strained and there would be even less money to fund better treatments for health problems brought about by these substances and more. The tax gained from these things is vital for our health services etc.


We can't tax unhealthy foods though (although if there was a good and fair way to do it, it wouldn't be such a bad idea) because even the most fattening of foods won't necessarily cause you to become overweight as long as you eat them in moderation or avoid eating them altogether.


So what do we do to help discourage people from becomming fat or fatter and where are we going to get the money for the ever increasingly strain these obesity problems are putting on our health services?



Yes, taxing obese people on plains may make them feel worse about their weight problems (and this may cause them to be even fatter depending on the reasons why their over-eat), but you could also say at the same time it may give the encouragement and motivation to some fat people to really seek help about their problems by making them more aware about how big they really are.
Like how with how many anorexics think they are bigger than what they really are, many obese people are also in denial about their weight problems and don't deal with them. If we are too kind to the obesity problem and too accepting of it how can we expect to make the obesity problem any better?


Yes maybe it will make obese people feel more excluded from society, but you can't let that get in the way- it would be like saying its not fair to have a smoking ban for indoor public places because it makes smokers feel more excluded from society.
As far as i am concerned you can do whatever you want with your body, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be expected to deal with the consequences of your actions/choices and shouldn't expect everyone to be happy and accepting of your actions/choices etc. The fact of the matter is that times are changing.
I smoke and i had to deal with the consequences of the ban on indoor smoking in public places, personally the ban didn't effect me much at all. I don't see why though that fat/obese people don't have to deal with the consequences of their actions though if they are having a detrimental effect on society.
Yes, some people really are overweight through no real fault of their own- one example i can give is one of my aunts, she used to be really slim but after going through and abusive marriage and suffering from certain health problems she developed bad depression and some other mental problems, so she was prescribed some medication to help her live with these problems so she could lead a normal and happy life (which now she does). The side effect of the medication though is that it made her fat, and she went from a size 6 to a size 16.
However, i would say that for the majority of overweight/fat/obese people their weight problems really are their own fault, and they are simply fat because they put the wrong foods or too much food in their mouths, and that the only person that can solve their weight problems is theirself.


I have suffered discomfort because of other people being obese.
For example, paying for tickets to go to Australia to see my family is very expensive and takes a whole year to save up for such a trip, the journey on the plain is very long and i expect to fly to australia in relevant comfort considering how expensive the tickets are. But it is really bad when you are stuck in economy class where the seats and space are already very small and the person sitting next to you is very obese and their fat is pushing through into your seat, under the arm rest and over it, leaving you pushing against the far side of your side with no arm rest space- you are left in a position which is not comfortable and which you can hardly relax in and let alone get any sleep in during the very long flight journey on the plane.
The the fat person needs to go to the toilet and they can barely sqeeze past you, so you either have to get out of your seat completely or suffer having the life squished out of your already numb legs while having their fat bum squeeze just inches away from your face. All night you are kept awake from them opening packets of peanuts and crisps as they munch loudly, feeding their weight problems. And don't get me started on the farts.

In a case such as this, wouldn't it just be better and far more comfortable for both of us, me and the fat person, if the fat person just payed for the extra seat they obviously need, and let me enjoy my flight journey in as much comfort as i posibly can (given that i also have a fear of flying)?

It would be good if planes did extra large seats for fat people, but at the end of the day they are always going to be more expensive than standard size seats since flying planes is a buisness and not a charity.


Anyways...I haven't completely made up my mind about this, and i know my opinions could be taken as very controversial or offensive to some. But i just think more needs to be done about the obesity problem.


What do you think about this whole subject?
Well done for this long essay!! You got an A-plus : 1337 words😏
Online Word Count Tool
 
"Anyways...I haven't completely made up my mind about this, and i know my opinions could be taken as very controversial or offensive to some. But i just think more needs to be done about the obesity problem." quote

Maybe we should charge obese people higher taxes at the grocery store, or higher fares in taxis. That would help the obesity problem. I always think the best way to help people is to penalize them and make them feel humiliated. It works so well.
 
I was kind of wondering on the word count, way in the back of my mind...not that it bothers me at all, since I am so used to typing out such wordy posts myself. Thanks for that information too, diceke san. I wish I could hear your opinion on this subject too, howeveer.


I always think the best way to help people is to penalize them and make them feel humiliated. It works so well.

You could have a point there, although I tend to see that better results have been shown in more cases where there had been a 'positive incentive' method applied.

If we were to go really down to nature, I'm not so sure there would be a problem any more, though...at least as regards obesity. So what...that person's far heavier than is healthy for them...well, let me not start here...this'll go way off-topic.
 
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What's next? You get an increased tax on your paycheck for being overweight? I find obesity disgusting, but I'm not about to send overweight folk into a gas chamber when the problem gets even worse.
 
I wouldn't say obese people are disgusting. You could be butt ugly. I think it's amazing that people feel free to call fat people disgusting and that they somehow are lacking. Say that about a black person or a native american.
 
I was sitting here very irritated at people for saying such negative things about people who are overweight. I can tell you that I experienced that discrimination and open disgust. I was very ill and had to take numerous steroids and chemo drugs. Needless to say I swelled like a balloon. I had the typical steroid moon face. I was huge and puffy. It wasn't my choice. I wasn't a bad person. I was gravely ill and suffering. Suffering from the disease and the treatment and the way people viewed me. It wasn't like I could walk around saying I'm not really fat, I'm just really sick! It was funny that people who knew me would come up and feel free to say that I looked like I was gaining weight. It blew my mind, they didn't say jeez your hair is falling out in patches. They commented on weight. People feel that somehow it's ok. It's not. It's no ones business. Then when I recovered and was off the steroids, I got wow you look great, so slim. Weight again, no one said wow, you HAVE hair!

Next, I have a Japanese friend who is overweight. She however being of small stature wouldn't need two seats, but she is technically obese. So you can be fat and small. Should airline tickets be charged by your BMI. That way it would be fair across the board. Small fat people would be charged more too, not because they were larger width wise but because they are overweight. Wasn't that the point of the tax. But you see this is why it's not fair. It only targets people by there actual width. People who are obese could still board a plane and not have to pay extra. So how would the fat tax help them?

I think as people we all should be a little more understanding. No one is perfect. As soon as you single any person out it is discrimination. We need to look at ourselves and our flaws first before pointing out other people's flaws.

That's my rant for the day.

Peace....Trish😇
 
I completely understand, Goldiegirl. It is for the reason you have raised here, that as social groups within the vauge bounds of a larger social-culture set, we as human beings have lost track of what we are in nature. It is not only a matter of build nor of proportions, or what-have-you, but can be applied to much more.

I can feel your emotions as they could be, from the subjective view, and from the objective view. The objective view would have been the anger and release of stress due to having fallen victim to that illness.

I truly feel for you, Goldiegirl. I know that such can be bad...even (regarding being over weight) for those who simply bring it on. I would love to change these set ways of seeing things that is so ironically a part of nature, and at the same time, disregarding nature.
 
I know that obese people HAVE to buy two tickets on many airlines. I think there is a system already in place. I do also feel that people feel very free to comment on overweight people, we are doing it right now! I think they are made to feel like they are less. Yep people get fat for a variety of reasons, but none of it is my business. Smoking can't be compared with someone's weight. A fat person can't cause you to have cancer! Please move your fat, it might be contagious!




No a fat person can't give you cancer but they can still effect other people's lives in less than positive ways.



How about this as an example;


Say we are living in 2050 and airlines are not only very expensive to run because of increasing fuel prices, but half the population is also overweight, with a quarter being seriously obese.

All this extra weight on the planes means they have to use a lot more expensive fuel to fly the plane from one place to another, since it is carrying almost twice as much weight as it was designed to decades ago.

All this extra fuel costs money, airlines are not charities, they are buisnesses, somehow they've got to pay for all this added cost and the most obvious way to do it would be to push up the prices of the tickets.

So people are paying more money for their tickets, travelling on planes is already expensive enough as it is and most people are very lucky if they can afford to go abroad once a year on holiday.

What if you have someone though who is from a poor family and who has a relative who has died abroad and this person wants to go to their relatives funeral. However they cannot afford to buy a ticket to go to their relatives funeral because our countries gluttony problems have pushed up the prices too much for this poor person to afford, when in the slimmer past they would have been able to afford such a plane ticket.

Is it fair that people who have the self discipline and motivation to control their weight should have to pay for the problems other people cause themselves?


I do sympathise for you that you gained weight through your harsh times and went through much stress concerning how people treated you, as i mentioned before i have an aunt who went through similar stuff, but you have to admit that people who suffer from weight problems directly because of the medication they are on are in the minority? The vast majority of people who are fat are fat because of over-eating/gluttony, of which there is nothing beautiful about (and when did beauty have anything to do with morality anyway?).

Anyways, airlines are going to have to start dealing with the obesity problem either way soon though anyway- you can't just turn a blind eye to it, because it is happening all around us.

One way they could deal with it would be to provide super-size seats for fat people, however these seats will be costly to put in and expensive in the long run to keep (since they will take up more space, so less people can fit on the plane in general).
Do you think it would be good for ailines to provide supersize seats? These seats will cost more either way, and you may think that unfair, but IMHO someone's gotta pay for them to justify them, the airlines cannot run at a loss just for the benefet of fat people etc.
 
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Next, I have a Japanese friend who is overweight. She however being of small stature wouldn't need two seats, but she is technically obese. So you can be fat and small. Should airline tickets be charged by your BMI. That way it would be fair across the board. Small fat people would be charged more too, not because they were larger width wise but because they are overweight. Wasn't that the point of the tax. But you see this is why it's not fair. It only targets people by there actual width. People who are obese could still board a plane and not have to pay extra. So how would the fat tax help them?
I think as people we all should be a little more understanding. No one is perfect. As soon as you single any person out it is discrimination. We need to look at ourselves and our flaws first before pointing out other people's flaws.
That's my rant for the day.
Peace....Trish😇






Hm...One idea: People shouldn't be charged on their weight or BMI but rather their width- if they cannot pass through a special door then they have to get a special large seat.
It would actually be better for those who are very fat because by having a larger seat they will be able to travel in more comfort on their journey and the corridor space will be wider for their access (which would also be better for health and safety reasons).

You may think its humiliating to make someone go in a larger seat, but IMHO its better than making them squeeze into a seat far too small for them (which i have seen many fat people on planes do). Which would make you feel more self-conscious if you were fat: sitting in a seat designed for you weight/width and has plenty of leg space etc, or being made to sit in a seat far too small for you which you can barely squeeze out of etc?

At the end of the day airlines are having to prepare for a fatter future, to make changes it is going to cost money, it only makes sense that the people these changes are being made for (i.e. fat/obese people) are the ones that pay for those changes. I do not see what is so unfair about this?
 
Who are you to judge or pass judgement? Who are you to tell people they are fat. You come across as a cruel person. i would hope you are not. Your lame examples just prove that you are a "fat" phobic person. Don't justify what you think would or wouldn't humiliate a person. It is up to the individual and certainly not to you. You have also shown that it is again ok to discriminate.
 
Who are you to judge or pass judgement? Who are you to tell people they are fat. You come across as a cruel person. i would hope you are not. Your lame examples just prove that you are a "fat" phobic person. Don't justify what you think would or wouldn't humiliate a person. It is up to the individual and certainly not to you. You have also shown that it is again ok to discriminate.


I can judge whoever i want, people judge me, i judge them, you can judge me if you want, i don't mind because at the end of the day it is only natural and that everyone does it- all judging is about is about holding an opinion on something or someone, just because my opinions may not be in agreance with some other people's opinions doesn't mean i don't have the right to have them.
Lets not talk about discrimination- you seem to think its fine to discriminate against smoking regardless of how much it humiliates the smoker because smoking can have a negative effect on other people, so i gave you an example of people's obesity having a negative effect on other people (in the example of obesity pushing up the prices of tickets so other people may not be able to afford them even though they have done nothing to make those prices so high) etc.

Anyway, what have i said that makes you think i am "fat phobic"? Why do you think it is my intention to humiliate those who are fat or that is the pupose of my opinions etc? Why haven't you adress the issues of "fairness" i have raised here instead of just saying its wrong for me to have my opinions- explain why in detail so i can understand more about what you base your opinions on even if i disagree or agree with those opinions? If my examples are so bad, why can't you be more specific about what exactly you disagree with them about even if to you the reasons may be obvious etc?

I'm not a cruel person, i do sympathise a lot for many others (including those who are fat to a certain extent depending on the circumstances etc) but i try to base my opinions more on what i agree logically with than simply agreeing with something based on my feelings, i need to discuss stuff indepthly to make or change a particular opinion etc. I know this may make me seem too blunt/straightforwas or coldhearted in my reasoning sometimes, but i am not that way even if i may appear it at times.
 
If I may add here--and excuse me for a second, as I kind of want to open the window for a sec, and let in some fresh air--this thing that the nutritionists are shooting for, just what kind of data may have given rise to that concern in the first place? I wonder...

Anyway, getting back to a tax or seat arrangement on airlines, and the purpose those who had suggested such think that would serve, I wonder if there have ever been any such suggestions for other transportation modes?
 
I think it is fair for people who are big/wide enough to need two seats, to have to pay for them, because they are taking up a space that could be used for someone/something else.

This is an issue of practicality, and not to do with the 'morals' of being fat. Simply, it is unfair that one person gets two seats, when generally one person gets one seat. The larger person is paying the same but getting more. Also, as has been pointed out, higher weight in the plane means more fuel is used. That doesn't mean heavier people should necessarily pay more for their flights (otherwise we might as well have a sliding scale for ticket prices for everyone, since our weights all differ), but added to the previous point on fairness, the 'two seats, two tickets' approach would seem to help with this problem while also addressing the fairness issue.

Yes, of course having to pay more will make larger people feel bad - either simply because of the greater price, or because they feel like they are being discriminated against because of their size. For some people that could act as a motivation to slim down; for others it might annoy and/or upset them and make them inclined to eat more or simply be angry and feel it is others at fault. And other people are fat/big through no fault of their own - through illness and maybe also coupled with medication. Perhaps people with a medical condition, not caused by fat/overweight-ness but causing it (such as steroid medications like Goldiegirl's) could get a certificate from their doctor explaining the condition, so they are not discriminated against through no fault of their own? While people who are large through overeating would have to pay for the two seats.

Not that I am saying that people who overeat find it easy to change their behaviour and become slim again, because I am sure that's not the case and it's very difficult, especially with psychological factors involved, and of course people should get the help necessary to recover, because after all a mental illness is truly an illness too, right? I was just trying to think around the problem, because it's a fine line between what is psychological and what is physiological. Changes in physiology also prompt chemical changes in the brain, so it's not so easy to say that willpower and what goes on in the mind are totally within a person's control. I know this from the reverse point of view; having been drastically underweight and actually sensing the changes in my brain function occurring because of altering chemistry. Of course, technically speaking it is a question of having control over yourself and saying 'eat more' (or in a fat person's case 'eat less'), but in reality it was actually very difficult to exercise that. So in some sense I have sympathy with people who are large, but I still think they should have to pay for two plane seats if they need them, in fairness. My uncle is fat and when he went to the States he needed two seats.
 
A bit of an update on the issue;

Obesity is threatening our society, particularly our health services, and is this not an exaggeration. The cost of the health problems that obese people make themselves prone to is causing a severe strain on our health services, and the weight of societies obesity problems could quite literally cripple our health services;

"Hospitals in England and Wales are refusing referrals for obesity operations on costs grounds, a snapshot survey of doctors suggests.";

Full story;

BBC NEWS | Health | NHS 'limiting obesity operations'

"In the past five years, there has been a 650% rise in referrals for obesity surgery in some areas, Pulse said.

Some 12 of the 20 consultants quizzed said their units were struggling to cope with the rise in numbers, with half sending patients back to GPs."

"Professor John Baxter, president of the British Obesity Surgery Society, added: "To say there's underfunding is a massive understatement. It's appalling. There should be a public inquiry in my view.""





Alcohol and tobacco get taxed a great deal to help pay for the health problems they cause in society. Smokers get in particular taxed a massive deal (much more than what is necessary) and a lot of the excess tax is being put towards other non-smoking related issues in the NHS, and ever more increasingly these issues are obesity related.

Right now people who are obese pay no tax whatsoever for their condition and fatty foods do not get any extra tax either etc. But something needs to be done about the problem- the NHS desperately needs money to help pay for the health problems caused by obesity, but so far unlike smokers and drinkers, obese people are not contributing any money in particular to pay for their health problems.
I don't know what the solution is, its all very controversial, but something needs to be done about it- the NHS needs money, if fat people don't pay for their health problems, then everyone who relies on the NHS suffers for the lack of money it has, regardless of whether they are fat or not.

The idea of a "Fat tax" of some sort is becoming ever more needed in society right now.

BTW, i agree with many of your points Kinsao 👍 .
 
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