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Are parents who let their children become obese guilty of child abuse?

Tokis-Phoenix

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As the title says, Are parents who let their children become obese guilty of child abuse? What do you think?



I've thought long and hard about this, and although i know my conclusion may sound harsh to some, my answer is "yes".

Some news articles for thought;

"Who is responsible for our diets?";

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4876092.stm

"'Even toddlers' could reduce fats";

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7228312.stm

"Child obesity 'doubles in decade'";

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4930264.stm



The way i see it is that a parent is responsible for the upbringing of their child and the welfare of their child. While numerous obese adults may make a multitude of excuses/reasons/whatever for why they are obese, IMHO if a young child becomes obese then it is the parents fault and responsibility- the parent brings home the money to buy the food to put on the table. If a child becomes obese, it is not really the child's fault (who are they to know better, particularly when at a very young age?) but rather the parent for feeding their child too much.

So the parent is responsible for their child's diet, and if the child becomes obese, then it can only be the parent who is responsible.

But when it comes to abuse, how do we define child abuse?
Child abuse to define is a very complicated matter, but we can look at it simply as neglect over the child's welfare and abuse towards the child physically, emotionally or sexually etc.


Obesity can have numerous negative lasting effects on a child's health and even emotional wellbeing. Obesity in children starts as a neglect over the child's diet, obesity is physically unhealthy/damaging state of weight, obese children are also likely to suffer from emotional problems- the only part of child obesity that does not tick the list of child abuse definitions is sexual abuse.

If a parent neglected the nutritional needs of a child, this would fall under the category of child abuse, and while we often associate malnutrition in children with underweight children- but actually, you are just as vulnerable to suffer from malnutrition if you are obese as you are if you are underweight, since a great deal of people suffering from obesity suffer from malnutrition because they have too many of the wrong foods in their diet and not enough of the nutritionally good/balanced ones etc.
So you could also argue that parents who let their children become obese are neglecting the nutritional needs of their their children.



What do you think about this subject? Are parents who let their children become obese guilty of child abuse (or at the very least, child neglect)? What should we do about child obesity problems in our societies and should we step in and take action particularly when parents allow their children to become morbidly obese etc?

Children who become obese have decreased life expectancies and may suffer from numerous health problems for the rest of their lives even if they tackle their weight problems and lower their weight, so i certainly think more needs to be done about tackling child obesity, since it is certainly true that the more years that go by while being overweight, the more difficult it becomes to shift that weight etc. Parents who let their children become obese are giving their children a disadvantaged start to adulthood rather than an advantaged start to adulthood.
 

Mikawa Ossan

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I think that abuse and neglect are different.

Abuse is actively inflicting harm.

Neglect is being passive in your child's well-being and thereby causing harm.

I think that abuse is much more serious in an immediate sense, but neglect can be worse because it is hard to notice, and the harm can be well established for a long time before the neglect is discovered.

I can see how parents who let their children become obese could be argued to be neglectful of their children's health....but I don't see what good that would accomplish.
 

Tokis-Phoenix

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I think that abuse and neglect are different.
Abuse is actively inflicting harm.
Neglect is being passive in your child's well-being and thereby causing harm.
I think that abuse is much more serious in an immediate sense, but neglect can be worse because it is hard to notice, and the harm can be well established for a long time before the neglect is discovered.
I can see how parents who let their children become obese could be argued to be neglectful of their children's health....but I don't see what good that would accomplish.


If you do something though towards a child that you know is wrong/not good for the child then you could argue that that is abuse- IMHO, neglect is more of a case of a parent not looking after a child properly, either out of ignorance, or because they can't look after the child properly even if they want to etc.

If a parent knows that hitting a child is harmful to the child's mental and physical health, then this would be considered abuse. But now change "hitting child" with "feeding child so much food that they become obese"- why shouldn't this because considered abuse towards the child as well?
Parents who feed their children so much food that the children become obese may not be intentionally doing it to harm their children's health, but by doing it anyway even though they know by doing what they are doing is seriously harming their children's health, certainly in a way they are abusing their children by doing so.


When it comes to "what good would saying that parents who let their children become obese are committing child abuse or neglect?", well, IMHO is that by making the parents face up to the fact that they are neglecting the child's health or nutritional needs and so they are neglecting or abusing their child, it should force parents to face up to what they are doing and their actual responsibilities as a parent more.

If you saw a parent with a 4 or 5 year old child walking down the street and the child was morbidly obese, don't you think something should be done to help protect the child from this?

We have really bad problems with obesity in our western societies, at the very least, how can we expect the younger or future generations to loose weight when we let their parents stuff as much food as they want down their kids throats and accept this as acceptable?
 

Goldiegirl

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Well this gets tricky, at sumo the other day they had kids who were training to become wrestlers, they would have been considered obese. Also many kids are obese because their parent(s) are poor. High fat, high calorie, un-nutritious food is sometimes the only food available. I think we should work on the issues that cause obesity which aren't just over eating and to think otherwise is simply foolish.
 
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Agree with GoldieGirl as I noticed when we returned to Australia just how un-healthy all the food actually is here.

Everything seems to have a fine layer of oil shine on it.

Definitely miss that yummy Japanese food..
 

Annubis

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At the age of 17, my brother weighed over 300lbs. It is not the cause of my parents. Well, maybe partially... I will explain further, but it was also my fault. It has more to do with habit and metabolism.
When I was young, I would have eating contests with my brother. I would win most of the time because I was older. But this would continue for years. I later realized that my metabolism could work through the food which had been eaten more easily than his. If I had known that we had different body types, I may not have made him eat so much. Then, because of this habit, snacks would become a regular after school event. Only, with our eating contests, we would sometimes go through a pack of cookies or a bag of chips in no time flat. My parents had nothing to do with the situation except that I have my father's body type and I never get fat or skinny and my brother has my mother's body type, which can get very big.

To encourage weight loss my mother went on the atkins diet with my brother, but my brother doesn't stick to it well. Hehe!! There are so many reason's for obesity, even junk food. But mostly, it has to do with the environment in which one lives.
 
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Tokis-Phoenix

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Well this gets tricky, at sumo the other day they had kids who were training to become wrestlers, they would have been considered obese. Also many kids are obese because their parent(s) are poor. High fat, high calorie, un-nutritious food is sometimes the only food available. I think we should work on the issues that cause obesity which aren't just over eating and to think otherwise is simply foolish.



Actually the deprivation obesity theory has been disproven;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/7225262.stm


From the top researchers of obesity themselves;

"Since the turn of the century," said Barry Popkin, Professor of Nutrition at the University of North Carolina, "we've seen big reductions in poverty, particularly in India and China."

"The reasons why more people than ever before are putting on weight are, on the face of it, simple enough; they eat too many fatty or sweet foods, and don't do enough exercise."

""Over the past century we have worked very hard to produce cheap beef. The global price of beef has gone down to about a quarter of its cost in the 1950s.

"This makes it that much easier for poor people to consume beef, and the same has occurred for edible oils and sugars."

"These products are the least healthy in terms of producing diabetes, cancer and obesity.";


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/6495889.stm




The fact of the matter is that food is cheaper than ever and we have more access to a massive variety of foods than ever.

High fat, high calorie, un-nutritious food is sometimes the only food available


Can you give any such examples? Sounds like another excuse for people not losing weight.


I think we should work on the issues that cause obesity which aren't just over eating and to think otherwise is simply foolish


Well i don't think its foolish- in fact, you just stated the main reason why people get fat, its from over-eating. People don't magically make fat out of nothing.
Its time we face up to the fact that we're consuming way more calories and leading way less physically active lifestyles than our ancestors- this really is how it is, all of the research states this, so i don't see why its so difficult for people to realize this to be the case.


I think what is often is the case with people who are obese, is that they obviously don't like being obese, but on the other hand they love or addicted to their food and laid back lifestyles far too much to sacrifice them a bit for the sake of their health. So they come up with excuses to help convince themselves or others that their weight is a problem that is out of their control and that there's nothing they can do about it, so they can continue to live in their state of obesity.

A good friend of mine used to weigh 16stone and she wasn't much taller than me. But she joined Weight Watchers, a group for people wanting to loose weight but need to be pointed in the right direction etc, and once she started taking advice and eating properly and doing regular daily exercise, she started to shed the weight considerably, and within a year she was a size 8 and weighed 9stone.
She admitted that she used to make excuses for her weight, but she said once she faced up to the fact that she was over-eating and eating too many of the wrong foods on top of not doing enough exercise, and she started to do stuff to change this, she was able to loose the weight quickly.
She didn't need to do any fad/pop diets to loose the weight, it was simply a case of once she started to eat a healthy diet and do regular exercise, she lost the weight.

Her story goes to show that anyone can loose weight if they put their mind to it 👍 .
 

Tokis-Phoenix

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At the age of 17, my brother weighed over 300lbs. It is not the cause of my parents. Well, maybe partially... I will explain further, but it was also my fault. It has more to do with habit and metabolism.
When I was young, I would have eating contests with my brother. I would win most of the time because I was older. But this would continue for years. I later realized that my metabolism could work through the food which had been eaten more easily than his. If I had known that we had different body types, I may not have made him eat so much. Then, because of this habit, snacks would become a regular after school event. Only, with our eating contests, we would sometimes go through a pack of cookies or a bag of chips in no time flat. My parents had nothing to do with the situation except that I have my father's body type and I never get fat or skinny and my brother has my mother's body type, which can get very big.

To encourage weight loss my mother went on the atkins diet with my brother, but my brother doesn't stick to it well. Hehe!! There are so many reason's for obesity, even junk food. But mostly, it has to do with the environment in which one lives.




I think thats why its so important for parents to go to good lengths to help create the right environment for their kids to show them how to eat and exercise healthily.



However the metabolism thing is a myth- the larger you are the higher your metabollic rate is, the majority of obese or over-weight people actually have high/fast metabolisms rather than slow ones.

"In fact, the larger you are the higher your metabolic rate, the amount of energy your body uses at complete rest, will be. This is because when your body is at complete rest larger people need more energy to pump the blood around the body and to keep moving. Just as a big car uses more fuel so a bigger person uses more energy.";

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/humanbody/truthaboutfood/slim/fatthin.shtml

"The term 'metabolic rate' refers to the energy (calories) you expend over a day just keeping your body functioning - your heart beating and your lungs breathing, for example. This is often called the basal or resting metabolic rate.

Scientists have measured the exact amount of calories overweight and healthy weight people burn while sitting or lying quietly. This was done by measuring the amount of oxygen breathed in and the amount of carbon dioxide breathed out.

Results from these studies have consistently shown that overweight people use more energy to keep their bodies working. This is because they have larger bodies with bigger muscles and internal organs.

However, after taking into account differences in body size, lean and obese people have been shown to have similar metabolic rates."

"Often, overweight people believe they eat very little and still put on weight, hence the 'slow metabolism' theory, but research has shown people tend to eat more than they think.

When asked to write down everything they've consumed in a day, people tend to report eating far less than they actually do. This may be to impress the researcher or because they genuinely forget to include some items.

"The bottom line is you'll gain weight if you consume more calories than your body needs. This can be a difficult fact to face, but recognising the need for change is vital for successful weight loss.";

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/healthy_living/your_weight/medical_myths.shtml



So basically, the metabolism excuse is really just an excuse and is a myth that has been scientifically disproven. Your brother was probably eating more than you realized.

Anyhoo, I actually think its a good thing though that all these myths/excuses are getting disproven though, because it makes people face up more to the fact that they are fat because they are over-eating, however on the plus side this means that it is completely possible for them to loose their weight if they go about it in the right way and by no means should they ever feel discouraged or worried by all these myths and excuses floating around.
 

Tokis-Phoenix

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I really wanna say that fat isn't bad!!!
http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/bodytypeinformation.html
I don't like refering to site on the net, I prefer real proof, bu this is gonna have to do. This site explains the different body types.
Here is a great site for fat people :)
http://www.io.com/~joeobrin/fat.html


With the William Herbert Sheldon guy, i'm quite skeptical of his theories, especially since the body type/somatotype theories were published in the 40's and he never actually based his research on hardcore evidence/facts, but rather just observation etc,

"Sheldon himself was more a behavioral psychologist than either an anatomist or a physiologist. His behavioral conclusions were based largely on interviews which he or his students carried out over a long span of time, and the actual psychometric data was often more suggestive than conclusive."

"The majority of scientists today generally consider these theories from the 1930s and 1940s outdated. Sheldon's theories had popularity through the 1950s. Some saw in the somatotypes a link to eugenics and racial hygiene. Sheldon's 4,000 photographs of naked Yale undergraduates and other similar photographs were destroyed.[2][3] The words endomorphic, mesomorphic and ectomorphic are still sometimes used to describe body types, maybe especially in association with weight training aimed at gaining muscle."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatotype



With the second website you gave, i agree with the first two paragraphs of it and thats about it- the majority of research the site is quoting is from 16years ago, so is pretty outdated.

I'm very wary about the "fat acceptance" thing. On the one hand, i think people should not be judged based on the appearance, i don't care if someone's fat or thin, but on the other hand i don't think its good to become so accepting of obesity problems in society that the obesity problems just continue to rise, because the fact of the matter is that they are becoming a major strain on our health services, which is particularly bad for things like the NHS in my country which is already crippled with debts and funding problems and is not going to cope/survive in the future if obesity levels continue to worsen, which will be bad for all of us in the end who rely on the NHS.

At the end of the day, its not healthy to be fat, but it shouldn't dictate who someone is as a person- under all that fat, they're still human, they still have a soul and emotional needs etc. But IMHO as a society we do need to do more to try and prevent people from becoming overweight because its certainly not a positive or ideal state of being.
 

pugtm

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counter question
are parents who let their children do poorly at school guilty of child abuse?
are parents who let their children be bad human beings guilty of child abuse?
you see if you start down that road it never ends, the children are guilty for not taking care of themselves.
what if the parents tried but failed?
 

magevampjoe

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I agree with pugtm.

And the children are guilty themselves, but obviously now it is too PC to blame a child. It MUST be the paren't fault that this kid went and stabbed someone/is soooo fat/didn't do any work at school.

It is the kid. It is neglect from the parent though, not abuse.
 

Half-n-Half

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According to your definition, Tokis-Phoenix, I am a result of child abuse. My parents never watched what I ate, always bought any junk foods I wanted, and for the most part didn't make me eat healthy food. However, I chose to play outside a lot with my friends and be active. Later on, I chose to run Cross-Country and Track in school, and still do. As a result, I am a healthy, fit person, not obese in the slightest definition of the word. My parents never made me go outside and play, exercise, or run Cross-Country and Track. In fact, they bought be all the latest game consoles which could have easily made me stay inside forever. I simply chose to do those activities.

So, I think parents who let their children become obese is neglect, not abuse, since the child still has the choice to exercise and stay fit. At one point it is up to the child whether or not they want to take the initiative to stay healthy, something the parents can encourage them to do by not neglecting them.
 
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Goldiegirl

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It's so simple to blame parents for everything. There is no personal responsibility anymore. Personally, I think Tokis-Phoenix, that although you say you can accept fat people, it's a bit of a lie. You have brought up fat people on other threads, and even said they aren't as ugly to you as perhaps people with bad teeth. You seem to judge people very much on their appearance. Too bad.....
 

MadamePapillon

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I'm not sure if it could be considered either neglect or abuse. I think probably the best thing you could call it is gross negligence.

The parent see their child getting bigger and bigger and still continue to give them cookies and take them to McDonalds...in many cases the parents do this out of a mis-placed sense of not wanting to be 'the bad guy' or to make their kids happy. Either that or the parents themselves are struggling with weight issues and end up passing bad eating habits and food choices on to their kids.

Either way, I don't think the majority of parents with obese children do it to intentionally harm their child. That said, they are still the parents, they have a responsibility to make sure their child is eating healthy and exercising. No amount of excuses makes letting a young child become overweight understandable.
 

Tokis-Phoenix

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counter question
are parents who let their children do poorly at school guilty of child abuse?
are parents who let their children be bad human beings guilty of child abuse?
you see if you start down that road it never ends, the children are guilty for not taking care of themselves.
what if the parents tried but failed?





If parents "let" their children do badly at school then its not the parents fault but rather the school educations systems fault for failing to ensure the children get a good education- other than that, its the children's fault if they fail at school.
If a parent ensures that their child goes to school to get educated and makes sure they have all the supplies like books and gym gear they need, then thats all the parent is responsible for in their child's education.

I don't know what you specifically mean by letting kids be "bad human beings" though, if you can give a more specific example i can comment on that.


If the parent tries to make sure the kid gets the best start in life and the such like and the kid does not take to their parents examples and stuff, then its the childs fault.

But you can hardly call it a childs fault if a child becomes obese because all the food the parents put on the table is highly fattening foods. You don't expect kids to go out and buy their own food do you?

I agree with pugtm.

And the children are guilty themselves, but obviously now it is too PC to blame a child. It MUST be the paren't fault that this kid went and stabbed someone/is soooo fat/didn't do any work at school.

It is the kid. It is neglect from the parent though, not abuse.



You're bringing completely different off-topic issues into this thread- a child stabbing another person is nothing like a parent over-feeding their child. Completely different matters- if you want a rant on PC behavior like that, go and start your own thread on the subject.
 
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Tokis-Phoenix

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According to your definition, Tokis-Phoenix, I am a result of child abuse. My parents never watched what I ate, always bought any junk foods I wanted, and for the most part didn't make me eat healthy food. However, I chose to play outside a lot with my friends and be active. Later on, I chose to run Cross-Country and Track in school, and still do. As a result, I am a healthy, fit person, not obese in the slightest definition of the word. My parents never made me go outside and play, exercise, or run Cross-Country and Track. In fact, they bought be all the latest game consoles which could have easily made me stay inside forever. I simply chose to do those activities.

So, I think parents who let their children become obese is neglect, not abuse, since the child still has the choice to exercise and stay fit. At one point it is up to the child whether or not they want to take the initiative to stay healthy, something the parents can encourage them to do by not neglecting them.



Then you were a more responsible child than most though. However how old were you when you were doing these sorts of things?

If a parent had an obese 5 year old child, i would not expect the child to take themself down to the park and run around on their own unsupervised simply because the parents can't be bothered to ensure the child gets a good diet or exercise regime.


I think a parent letting a child become obese can at times be both a case of neglect and abuse.
 

Tokis-Phoenix

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It's so simple to blame parents for everything. There is no personal responsibility anymore. Personally, I think Tokis-Phoenix, that although you say you can accept fat people, it's a bit of a lie. You have brought up fat people on other threads, and even said they aren't as ugly to you as perhaps people with bad teeth. You seem to judge people very much on their appearance. Too bad.....



So just because i am honest and say i do not find fat people attractive, that means i am judging people on appearance? Do you find someone who is 25stone attractive?

I am not judging people based on appearance- if i said something like "i hate fat people because they're all so lazy", then yeah, your comments might be correct, however i don't see how simply saying i find people who are fat unattractive i am judging them on their appearance in a bad way?



If i said i don't find chinese people attractive would that be racist? Or could you just accept that i am not attracted to them, just like how some people find black people more attractive than white people, or blonds sexier than brunettes etc?

I don't find people with rotten teeth attractive just as i don't find people who are fat attractive. But i don't see you sticking up for all the people with rotten teeth trying to convince me that its attractive or something, or un-politically correct to say so etc. Teeth rot when they are neglected, obesity comes about when people neglect their diet/body- they're not that much different from each other in that sense. Do you find rotten teeth attractive?

Is it wrong that i bring subject of obesity up in threads? Would you rather just live in a world where no one ever spoke of the subject or said anything midly negative about people's lifestyles etc?
I think you're living in denial if thats how you really want to see the world.
 

Tokis-Phoenix

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I'm not sure if it could be considered either neglect or abuse. I think probably the best thing you could call it is gross negligence.

The parent see their child getting bigger and bigger and still continue to give them cookies and take them to McDonalds...in many cases the parents do this out of a mis-placed sense of not wanting to be 'the bad guy' or to make their kids happy. Either that or the parents themselves are struggling with weight issues and end up passing bad eating habits and food choices on to their kids.

Either way, I don't think the majority of parents with obese children do it to intentionally harm their child. That said, they are still the parents, they have a responsibility to make sure their child is eating healthy and exercising. No amount of excuses makes letting a young child become overweight understandable.



Yes i agree, even if the parents aren't intentionally trying to harm the child by letting their children become obese, they're still harming the child at the end of the day by giving their children too much food to eat. Its the parents responsibility to ensure that the child gets a healthy balanced diet because its the parents who bring in the money to buy the food. No way can a child be expected to go out and work and buy their own food, they have to rely on their parents to get food instead, and so its the parents responsibility to try and ensure that the kids get a good diet etc.

I think a parent not feeding a child enough is just as bad as a parent feeding their child too much.
Both obesity and anorexia have numerous negative effects on a persons health, IMHO, they're just as bad as each other.
 

Goldiegirl

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I think I am more polite I guess. Maybe you should look at yourself first before casting judgments on people. Do you have kids? I don't have kids, but I am raising my niece, so I understand the difficulty in getting kids to eat healthy. It's great to be so idealistic, but I think as you mature you will lighten up a bit. The world is not so black and white. I find nice people attractive, I don't look at whether they are Chinese, fat, have crooked teeth, that would leave out some of my favorite people in my life. :)
 

Half-n-Half

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Then you were a more responsible child than most though. However how old were you when you were doing these sorts of things?
If a parent had an obese 5 year old child, i would not expect the child to take themself down to the park and run around on their own unsupervised simply because the parents can't be bothered to ensure the child gets a good diet or exercise regime.
I think a parent letting a child become obese can at times be both a case of neglect and abuse.
I was active for as long as I can remember, probably since I was two years old. I started running in 5th grade (11 years old) and still do, now that I'm 18.

I never had to "take myself down to the park." I just played in my neighborhood with my friends. We'd play tag around each other's houses, play basketball, and mess around at the creek behind my house. Perhaps it is different in the UK, but there was always a place around our houses to run around and have fun. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a 5 year old who wouldn't want to get a little messy playing outside.
 
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magevampjoe

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I wasn't going off topic. I was typing fast because I needed the toilet when I wrote that.

My point was this; many children start doing bad things due to child abuse to them, according to the government and media. Therefore, it is the parents fault that the kid is anything they are. That includes the child being fat; the child is fat because the parent is neglecting them/abusing them. But when we start to accuse parents of abuse to their children, we are starting along the same lines as blaming the parent for the child stabbing someone.

The fact is, we live in a blame culture, where no child is to blame. When my Dad was a kid, a child that was disruptive got a smack across the head or hands and shut up, and wasn't disruptive. It was the child's fault. Now we blame it on mixtures of things. The kid has ADHD. The kid's parents are neglecting to teach him how to behave outside the home etc etc. This has begun to extend to obesity; as well as blaming adults for the kid being fat, they have begun to blame DNA strands that may cause fatness. Rubbish.

The problem is caused by fast food (or any food for that matter) and computer/consoles. Kids don't do any excercise. I myself, although I smoke, am quite healthy; I jog every morning and evening, skateboard, play rugby, do kendou, etc etc. I eat healthily. I am not fat. My brother, on the other hand, sits around and does nothing, and is overweight, although he sometimes comes jogging with me. He eats quite healthily, but doesn't do much excercise.

I suppose you could blame the adult for neglect, eg not forcing the children to go outside, but then, if you force a child to do something they don't want to do this is classed as abuse.

Adults are blamed, but for children old enough to make their own decisions to a certain extent (eg aged 10-11 years and older) it is that child's fault. Of course, the adult is fully responsible for a child of 5 years old who is obese.

Sorry about my post the other day, it just seemed to be off-topic, but I just didn't go into enough detail.

Joe
 

Tokis-Phoenix

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I think I am more polite I guess. Maybe you should look at yourself first before casting judgments on people. Do you have kids? I don't have kids, but I am raising my niece, so I understand the difficulty in getting kids to eat healthy. It's great to be so idealistic, but I think as you mature you will lighten up a bit. The world is not so black and white. I find nice people attractive, I don't look at whether they are Chinese, fat, have crooked teeth, that would leave out some of my favorite people in my life. :)



Of course "nice people" are attractive when it comes to their personality, but when it comes to appearance and being obese it is not attractive physically, and this is the sense i was talking about the fat attractiveness thing in.

I have plenty of friends which vary massively in body weight and country of origin etc, however i cannot deny that if i was single and i was on the pull on a night out in a pub and i saw some guy who looked like he weighed 20stone and was sitting eating peanuts at the bar, i would not be interested in such a guy. Sure, he might make a great friend, it doesn't matter if friends are attractive or not, but i certainly wouldn't go out with such a physically unattractive guy even if he had a heart of gold, whats the point of going out with someone if you're not sexually attracted to them? You think thats wrong?

Face it. People are initially attracted to people's looks- we all initially judge people based on their looks. Am i wrong that i assume someone is a policeman because they are wearing a police uniform? Am i wrong that i assume someone is homeless if they are huddled up on a street corner wearing tattered dirty clothes with a begging box? Am i wrong that i don't find people who are fat or anorexic attractive because thats the way i am? No.

'Bout lightening up- this is the section for "serious" discussions BTW. I wouldn't exactly call you idealistic, but rather more politically correct than anything else on this thread- i guess they can be one and the same at times though.

Perhaps it is different in the UK, but there was always a place around our houses to run around and have fun. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a 5 year old who wouldn't want to get a little messy playing outside.



For people living in cities in my country it can be difficult for kids to go out and play on their own, people would look down upon a parent living in a city that lets their kid wander the street unsupervised, so its up to the parent to ensure their kid gets safe play time outside etc. Its easy if you live in the countryside or have a large garden in your home, but unfortunately less and less people have these privileges now days.
 
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Tokis-Phoenix

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I wasn't going off topic. I was typing fast because I needed the toilet when I wrote that.

My point was this; many children start doing bad things due to child abuse to them, according to the government and media. Therefore, it is the parents fault that the kid is anything they are. That includes the child being fat; the child is fat because the parent is neglecting them/abusing them. But when we start to accuse parents of abuse to their children, we are starting along the same lines as blaming the parent for the child stabbing someone.

The fact is, we live in a blame culture, where no child is to blame. When my Dad was a kid, a child that was disruptive got a smack across the head or hands and shut up, and wasn't disruptive. It was the child's fault. Now we blame it on mixtures of things. The kid has ADHD. The kid's parents are neglecting to teach him how to behave outside the home etc etc. This has begun to extend to obesity; as well as blaming adults for the kid being fat, they have begun to blame DNA strands that may cause fatness. Rubbish.

The problem is caused by fast food (or any food for that matter) and computer/consoles. Kids don't do any excercise. I myself, although I smoke, am quite healthy; I jog every morning and evening, skateboard, play rugby, do kendou, etc etc. I eat healthily. I am not fat. My brother, on the other hand, sits around and does nothing, and is overweight, although he sometimes comes jogging with me. He eats quite healthily, but doesn't do much excercise.

I suppose you could blame the adult for neglect, eg not forcing the children to go outside, but then, if you force a child to do something they don't want to do this is classed as abuse.

Adults are blamed, but for children old enough to make their own decisions to a certain extent (eg aged 10-11 years and older) it is that child's fault. Of course, the adult is fully responsible for a child of 5 years old who is obese.

Sorry about my post the other day, it just seemed to be off-topic, but I just didn't go into enough detail.

Joe




Well i'm not blaming everything children do wrong as the parents fault, but i do agree that it is a problem with numerous other people in society.

However.

A parent is supposed to feed, cloth and attend to their children's other basic needs.

Do you agree that one of the basic responsibilities of a parent is to provide a nutritious and varied diet for their children?

Do you think that a parent should hold no responsibility over their kids getting fat, if all the parent puts on the table is fattening unhealthy foods?

Don't you think that if a parents kids are getting very fat, the parent should try and do something to try and steer their kids in the right direction of weight loss and healthy eating?

If a parents child becomes morbidly obese and the child starts to suffer from health problems because of their obesity, don't you think that the parent should start doing more to monitor and reduce the kids food intake etc?




On the one hand you seem to say that parents are blamed for everything, but
on the other hand you seem to blame everything on kids, no matter how young they are, and to alleviate all responsibility or blame from the parents?
The message you seem to be getting across just sounds kinda anti-progress i.e. kids are to blame for everything, parents shouldn't get blamed for everything etc.
I don't think either way is ideal. Being a parent is holding a position of responsibility in many area's of the upbringing of the kids they brought into the world- do you think that parents should hold no responsibility over what happens with their kids or something?


I think if a lot of parents actually disciplined their kids properly and gave them a smack or too on the arse, then we wouldn't have such of a yob problem in this country.
When it comes to kids diets, IMHO a lot of parents just need to put their foot down and stop giving into their kids constant winging demands for sweeties and stuff. When i was a kid, if i didn't eat my veg then i got no desert, simple as that.
So many parents are way too soft on their kids now days, its ridiculous some of the unbelievably unacceptable behavior some parents seem to let their kids get away with, parents need to uphold their responsibilities more for the sake of the greater good for their kids etc.
While i do think there is too much protection over kids committing crimes, i also think it stems from a society thats become over-protective over their kids- when the kid wants chocolate, they get chocolate, when they want a new toy, they get a new toy etc. All this ends up with is lots of fat kids and yobbish behavior amongst kids- i think parents not disciplining their kids adequately/properly and not feeding their kids a good diet etc does amount to neglect or negligence.
 
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