Are Koreans and Japanese part of Turkish people?

[uygurlar]

When I live in the USA, I always hear the Korean and Japanese people say that Jenghiz Khan, Mongols, and the Ottoman Turkish empire are part of their heritage too. But, for me, as Uygur people, we have a direct claim to Turkish Muslim heritage. And, my people's history is connected to China too. Do you know the Tang Dynasty of China? It is the best one for them. Even their first Tang emperor had a Turkish mother and Turkish wife. His son did not live in Chang'an palace, but preferred to live in 'yurt' (Turkish tent) and spoke Turkish-Uygur language with his officials. Even the Jenghiz Khan (Genghis Khan) and his military missions used many Turks.

Ottoman and Azerbaijan people no longer look like the true Turks, but Uygurs are from the same family.

I think the Japanese and Koreans still look different from Uygurs. In China, I had a hard time telling the difference between some Han Chinese and Uygurs. But, Japanese and Koreans, I can tell instantly because of their distinctive eye shapes.

Do Japanese people have very high regard for Turkish people and their historic empires? The Turkish ones (including Huns, Seljuks, Ottomans, Tatars) conquered and absorbed many distant lands and peoples far from their original homelands for the Altaic people. Turkey still has a dream of uniting all the Turkic and Altaic people under their rule. Do Koreans and Japanese consider themselves part of this family?

Much Japanese fear China and I understand. When I went to Turkey, the local people always ask me if I get mistreated for being a minority in China? I tell them it is a much more complex situation.

 

[Fero_Khan]

Merhaba kardas neytersin yah$imi$iz ? sen Uygursinmi? men Tﾃｼrkmenim Turkiyeden ama hollandada kalirim sen kayerde kalirsin?

 

[mecharmor23]

Ahh, now I understand why Japanese people are sending humanitarian aid to middle eastern and Muslim people because the Japanese have a bit of middle eastern ancestry. But which side of the middle east do they support more, Fundamentalist or Democratic?? I was curious how Turkish people learned knew so well about Japanese culture regardless of whether they are new to America or not, At least those in my class.

Wait a sec, uygurlar, so now it is a situation where Turkish people are anti-Chinese too?? Having to have Chinese blood in me, I kind of wonder what Turkey holds against China??? I mean, look at their distances from the map! Once in a while, I get this evil glare from this Turkish girl in class this year. I never thought it meant anything, but now that you mentioned it... Why do Turkish people hate Chinese people? Why are Chinese people hated more than Japanese people?? It is not like one is better than the other. I tried to talk to this Turkish classmate as peacefully as possible, but her response seems to become more aggressive towards Chinese people by the day....... Yeah, I have Chinese blood and descendants, but should I be ashamed?
No offence intended, just some random ideas and questions, and that is all, plain and simple...... or maybe it is another misunderstanding of mine again???
And Uygurlar, you said you went to Turkey? Did the people there hold a special 1000+ years grudge against Chinese people when you were asked whether you were oppressed or not?? Which do they hate more, Saddam, Baathists, Kurds, Armenians or Chinese? Which gets mentioned more??

I am just asking this because I wondered whether it would help solve my little problem at school. This Turkish girl just kind of appeared out of nowhere, and after the 5th week of classes, she admitted rudely in my face that she hates Chinese and that I should repent, but when I ask what I should repent for, she called me an ignorant bum and spat on my shoe. What is that all about?? Ignorant of what?? Can someone guide me in the right direction here?

 

[bossel]

Ignorant of what?? Can someone guide me in the right direction here?

Ever heard of the oppression of Uygurs in China? Could be a reason.

 

[Mandylion]

Many Japanese fear China and I understand. When I went to Turkey, the local people always ask me if I get mistreated for being minority in China? I tell them it is much more complex situation.

Almost all situations are more complex than they seem in the news. Just like it is for you in your community, the situation between Japan and China is very complicated. I don't think it is quite right to say Japanese people fear China. The issue is much more complex than that.

All this speculation about which group of people came from that group etc. is a fun thought experiment, but when things start to get political (thinking money is being sent to the middle east because of some age-old lineage connection) things only get muddled up. If you want to take this argument to the extreme, since mankind as we know it seems to have come out of the Riff Valley in Africa, we are all Africans.

Trying to attach modern geo-politicial lables to gene study is a bit moot in my opinion. It only serves to confuse discussions on international issues.

 

[mad pierrot]

This could get messy.

I will tell you this: Most Japanese I know don't know the difference between Dole and a Banana, let alone hate Chinese or consider themselves Turkic.

I do know a Japanese author, U. Masami, who holds that Japanese people have a more diverse cultural heritage than others give them credit for. All of my profs think this guy is crackpot. Masami even speculates that the Ark of the Covenant is in Shikoku.
Anyway...

To the best of my knowledge, there were 3 major migrations of people into Japan. And yes, on group was from North Central Asia, possibly Khazak but more likely Manchu. As far as nomadic Muslim culture goes, I doubt Japan has much of a connection.

 

[Mandylion]

I will tell you this: Most Japanese I know don't know the difference between Dole and a Banana, let alone hate Chinese or consider themselves Turkic.

Well said, Mad Pierrot!

 

[ohayougozaru]

how about this ?

Are the Japanese also Turanian?

 

[Haivart]

As the migrations took place 10s of thousands of years ago, I don't believe you can use any "modern" ethnic labels. Many groups came out of that general region, and have become many different "ethnicities".

 

[ohayougozaru]

what happened to those of bohai ad 668-926, is said to have suddenly disappeared??? some claim they migrated to jpn, accounting for such numerous clans like suzuki san, kobayashi san or sasaki san..... how numerous now?? heres copy of top 20 family names with approx. pop, unit: thousand, said to be based on digitized phonebook, year 2000.

satoh 1,914
suzuki 1,692
takahashi 1,406
tanaka 1,324
watanabe 1,090
itoh 1,072
yamamoto 1,068
nakamura 1,041
kobayashi 1,011
saitoh 908
kato 853
yoshida 828
yamada 811
sasaki 709
yamaguchi 636
matsumoto 627
inoue 604
kimura 573
hayashi 537
shimizu 520

temperate, humid climate and archipelago with complex geographical features made the basis for a rich flora, paddy rice growing, protein rich sushi fishery, and a home for refugees from strife-torn east asian segment of the continet perhaps....

 

[Maciamo]

Ahh, now I understand why Japanese people are sending humanitarian aid to middle eastern and Muslim people, because the Japanese have a bit of middle eastern ancestry.

This is nonsense. Japanese, Koreans, Mongols and Turks might be linguistically related, but the thread's title is highly misleading, as the only common ancestor is not the Turks, but the Mongols. Besides, the Japanese are probably mixed ethnically, with Mongol elements and Han Chinese, and most probably Ainu and Indonesian as well.

Please read my article on , the origin of Japanese people for more info.

But which side of the middle east do they support more, Fundamentalist or Democratic??

Do you really need to ask that ? This is not even a matter of culture, language or ethnic group. Japan obviously supports democracy, and also supports the US before any middle eastern country. Without US pressure, there would be no Japanese troops in the Middle East.

Why do Turkish people hate Chinese people? Why are Chinese people hated more than Japanese people??

Give me a break ! These are just things you've heard somewhere. Why would the average Turks "hate" (watch your vocabulary, as "hate" is a powerful word ; didn't you mean "dislike" or "have little affinity" ?) Chinese without having even met one. If one thing is true, it is that China is the world's most populous country and has been led by a vicious communist regime (vicious because under Mao, millions of Chinese died due to the foolishness of their leaders), and that brings fear to other countries. Fear leads to hate. Modern Japan has been symbolized by hi-tech, anime/manga and cuteness. Hardly something to be afraid of. That's why there are more foreign Japan-related sites and forums than there are for the 10 more populous China.

 

[kirei_na_me]

*applauds for Maciamo*

These broad generalizations are ridiculous. Plain and simple. I'm sick to death of it.

 

[shiroma]

The Ertuğrul

From the Turkish Naval Forces Website

The frigate Ertuğrul was constructed at the İstanbul Shipyard in 1864. She sailed to Japan to pay a goodwill visit after an inoperative period of 13 years. On 18 September 1890, on her return voyage, she ran aground and sank in Japanese territorial waters. However, this loss, devastating though it was, brought with it a warm, sincere and emotional relationship between the Japanese and the Turkish Nations and in some sense, the Ertuğrul became the symbol of the Turkish-Japanese friendship. The Japanese youth wrote various poems and composed songs for the martyrs of Ertuğrul. In 1974, one of these songs was presented to the Naval Museum by the Consul General of Japan in İstanbul.

THE ERTUĞRUL FRIGATE DISASTER
2003 Year of Turkey in Japan
Message Of Turkey's Ambassador to Japan, Solmaz ﾃ從aydın, on the Occasion of 2003: Turkey Year in Japan
撃墜予告 テヘラン発 最終フライトに急げ

 

[Mandylion]

Thanks for the post 名無し-

friendship and genetics are two different things.

 

[mecharmor23]

But can you explain why the chinese-japanese relationship seems much further apart than japanese-turkish relationship?(that is before WWII of course).

 

[DaMo]

The case for linking Koreans and Japanese to Turkish people is very weak. Most of the proposed connections seem to be linguistic, and even these are rather flimsy. Korean and Japanese are believed by some to be remotely related to the Altaic group of languages, but they are far from being Turkic, let alone Turkish. The Mongol invasions helped spread Central Asian Turkic language roots westwards (even though the Mongols were not Turkic themselves), which is why we have Turkic languages in modern Turkey and Southwest Asia. Mongolian and Turkic languages are believed to be a part of the same Altaic family, but even the existence of the Altaic family is questioned, as the similarities could be related to intensive linguistic borrowing among nomads.

As such, I am quite certain that Koreans and Japanese are not part of the Turkish, or even Turkic peoples.

 

[alanta]

Thanks for the post 名無し-

friendship and genetics are two different things.

Well said!

As for that if Turkish hate Chinese, Chinese hate Japanese, in fact, A nationality or ethnicity shouldn't be hated by another one, but i think it's a normal thing if a Chinese hate Japanese invasion of China during wwII and a Turkish hate Chinese racism crime againist their Turkic brothers Uighurs during the past 50 years.

 

[aaltunn]

koreanjapanturkiccatsmiaovthesame

turkish is mainly used to mean the turkic people at asia minor.the turkic people(s) such as azeri and tﾃｼrkmen usually refuses to be defined as turkish let korean and japanese people.(azeris,tﾃｼrkmen and turkish people carried out to be the same state's people(the state of great seljuk ne flag one nation...we turkish people share exactly the same literature with azeris for exe. now 3 countries 3 flags one nation(?))
japanese and korean mainstream seems to be c.asian clearly but the lands of the occupied territories were already settled both in japan and turkey, simply creating a new stereotype(turkish people belongs to the anadolu sub-race of turan and japan is estimated to be the specialized south mongoloid race)
even the main stream and mixture of proto turkic people(s) unknown.also c.asia gave birth to many cultures/races not only turkic people
its believed that the mixture of far north asian tribes(who are they?????)created the term of proto turkic people whow drove the settlers of c.asia.it is also estimated that proto kyrgiz people belongs those who were droven out of c.asia and gained a turkic language.
the c.asian cultures and settlements such as kelteminar ,andronova and etc are not obvious enough to be turkic already.
as the sumerian connection was discovered to those c.asian people it is said that turkic race settle c.asia from sumerian territories.
the origin of hun and hiung nu tribes also are not so clear. its hard sometimes as we call them turkic. :?
the mongolic turkic and other relevant races' link to each other is not so clearly understood. may be just linguistic derivations occured within the same territory.
there is a serious homological (race connection) link within the korean/japanese people and turkish people. but never forget that whales and homo sapiens share the exactly same homological link.

 

[Mandylion]

aaltunn - not knocking your post, but I though race as a scientific distinction for groups of people has been proven to be a bad way to go about things? I could be wrong though...

 

[aaltunn]

whatyoumeanreally

aaltunn - not knocking your post, but I though race as a scientific distinction for groups of people has been proven to be a bad way to go about things? I could be wrong though...

so sorry mandylion but i didnt catch what you mean really... ı suffer english that it takes more than 8 years that i didnt use english...(my quality of english WAS almost native) but now as you see my other texts.....no grammar/vocab.and pron. left behind ...

i posted the explanation for uygurlar,showing that there İS a link between japan and turkish people geneticly.as you carefully consider my text i tried to mean how genetic may be nothing.all people on this globe carries out to be the same human being.the important thing is the culture we carry.culture is the software of human being.i mean that we MAYBE relatives or not but this wont change anything.we are just departed cultures...but carry out friendship
and i used the word RACE as an scientific explanation,just a biological term ... i never mentioned racist mind or explanations...
i just used the term/word of race from the encyl. Meydan Larousse

 

[Wang]

Japanese are mongoloids, Turks are Caucasoid.

 

[aaltunn]

Japanese are mongoloids, Turks are Caucasoid.

hi wang ! nice to meet you
so you are so sure about it.Then a bat is a bird.Ornitorenk is a duck.

this type of classification seems to be so much general . what else matters ...i am quite sure ...i am a homo sapiens

the youth and sports festival was cngrltd 2 days ago...
-peace at home peace at world -M Kemal Atatﾃｼrk

 

[coze]

When you say 'part of' it has a very strong meaning. But I think these cultures are related. And throughtout history they always had problems with China. In Turkish primary schools, China is tought of a historical enemy, and the current communist regime of China and the invasion of the Turkish market with cheap Chinese products doesn't help either. Most Turkish people don't care about these though in personal level. We usually like asian people (we can't tell the difference between chinese, japanese and koreans), and find them cute.
not all Turks are caucasoid. It depends on what you mean by Turk.

 

[canadian_kor]

Well, I've seen quite a number of Turks and they don't look anything like typical Altaic mongoloids. In fact, many of them look very Middle Eastern. My theory is that Anatolia was heavily populated by Indo-European and Semitic caucasoids and some Turkic tribes from Central Asia invaded the region and imposed their language and culture on the pre-invasion peoples (which outnumbered the Turkic invaders by the thousands). As for Japanese and Koreans having racial ties to Turkish people is quite speculative. Linguists have made some sort of linguistic connection, but that is about it. Besides, Japanese and Korean are what you would call idiosynchratic (or step-child) Altaic languages. That is why in linguistic textbooks both languages are put in their own categories. If you look at the picture of modern Japanese and Koreans and look at the pictures of Tungus, Yakuts, and Lamuts from Siberia you'll find considerable differences in facial structuring. Modern Japanese and Koreans (probably due to Chinese and South-East Asian elements) look less mongoloid than their distant relatives up in Siberia. Many modern Japanese and Koreans do not have the exaggerated mongoloid features often found in Siberian tribespeople (i.e., fatty facial covering, very thin eyes, wide faces, short forehead, etc.).

 

[gokce]

Canadian kor,

My reply to a similar theory to yours - a post about "so-called" studies on a small sample of people - can be found on this address:

RE: EU goes biggie size

You can see my objections to the issue. If you read that thread, you can also find the following replies about the issue there.

Uygurlar - I'm not sure if you are still logging in, but -, I must say I find terms like "true Turks", that discriminate against Turks regarding facial structures highly offensive. It is true that Seljuk / Ottoman / Turkiye Turks mostly look different than Saha or Uygur Turks. But then I have to remind you that it is not the shape of your eyes that makes you a "true" Turk.

Because if we follow this form of reasoning, my family, which looks not much different from Turks in East Turkestan, and some members of which are thought to be Uzbek Turks. At the same time, some are mistaken to be Japanese!, would be called true Turks, but I would then be left out because I do not look like any of the Uygur, Saha, Mongol or even Japanese. !?

And aaltun, I believe you abuse the word "Turkish", by only using it for Turks in Turkiye, which you choose to call "Asia Minor". Foreign politicians may do that, but we as Turks should not do so.

It is equally offensive, if not more, as the term "true Turks". You call yourself Turkish while calling Turks not living in Turkiye "Turkic". Is it because you think they are less Turk than you are?

And one other interesting point I noticed is that you give Turkmens as an example to "Turkic people". Are you not aware that you are also a Turkmen? Turkmen means a Muslim Turk of the Oguz Clan. And don't you know that Turks in Turkiye are overwhelming of Oguz branch of Turks? Don't you remember that Ottoman Emperor Family is also of the Kayi clan of the Bozok branch of Oguz Turks? Did you forget that you descend from Oguz Khan just like Turks in Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan, Iraq, etc., do? If not, please tell me why you distinguish even among Oguz Turks?

My above remark on Oguz Turks, was just because you gave Turkmenistan as an example. However, I believe calling Saha or Uygurs "Turkic" is equally absurd.

Would you call Attila and his people Huns "Turkic"? Or would you call Teoman and his people "Turkic"? Would you call Uygur State of the old times "Turkic"? If not, why do you now call their descendants Turkic? Why do you call Saha that claim to be the grandchildren of the Huns Turkic? Why do you call Uygurs of the East Turkestan Turkic? Why do you call Turks of the Central Asia Turkic? What has changed? Is it because they were/are occupied by Russia and China?

You keep telling me that Turks in Central Asia don't want to be called Turks. And you are making broad generalizations about them, which fortunately can not be applied to all. Because many people I have spoken to or many people I've heard of from Iraq, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Kyrgyzstan do consider themselves Turk, as opposed to what you say. They pay frequent visits to Turkiye, and try to build strong ties with us.

Both of you are doing the same thing, and offending both sides - one by "true Turks" the other by "Turkic ones", but I guess I am the only one, who sees the wrong in this.

I once or twice may have made the same mistake because of repeated exposure to the word "Turkic". However, I believe every one of us Turks should protest the usage of the word "Turkic" to describe Turks outside of Turkiye.

They are not less Turkish than we are, and we are not less Turkish than they are. "Turkic" is a made-up word, a propaganda. And we should be clever enough not to buy that! And no matter how much we are exposed to such impositions by foreign politicians, we should understand its true danger and agree on refusing it completely.

Because in the end, we are all Turkish.