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Any chance without a 4 year?

GezaTalmai

後輩
19 Dec 2007
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I know it's the standard for getting a visa, but I also know it's theoretically possible to get sponsorship and work without on.

The issue I have is I have no money. My family was never well off, and basically no one has ever completed college, except I think my dad took night courses... In any case, I'd most likely incur 90,000USD in debt were I to go to college.
That's alot of risk to take on, and that's frightening.


I'd like to avoid that, is what I'm getting at.

If you know of any industry that sponsors, please let me know.

I have experience with translating, tutoring Japanese people in English, and I'm conversationally fluent in Japanese. I'm confident I could also re-learn German in under a year.
That and linux-related computer skills are my skill set. Well, I've been told I'd make a good host, but I'm not a good judge of my own looks, though I know I'm good with courtesy industry tasks.
 
A bachelor's degree is "standard" only in the sense that most people have them. You can get a work visa with a certain number of years of experience + schooling, too. Depends on the type of work visa.

I wouldn't complain too much about taking on debts as a student. You won't get a lot of sympathy. People take out loans or work hard to make up for them. Besides, having a degree will make you better off in the long run. If you are looking for a teaching position in Japan, for example, please realize the market is flooded with teachers from normal circumstances, and right now it's even more so because the largest chain language school went bankrupt and put 5000 teachers on the street. Most have degrees and, obviously, experience, plus they are already here and can start work anywhere immediately.

What sort of job are you interested in? Look at the MOFA site for types of work visas and the descriptions of what is required to get them.
VISA
 
I tried to read that site, and the level of legalese an circular linking(see here for more information, see here for more information just sending me to two sections of the same page or something) confused me... I'll try again, but I'll probably need to ask for help from someone I know who's more familiar with this.

I'm looking for work that's legal for me to do and doesn't involve heavy lifting(I have a bad back). Were it not for my back I'd just become and illegal construction worker. I hear it's not that bad.
What I'm saying is I'm not that picky. I want out of the USA, and the only other language I speak is Japanese. I also enjoyed everything about my time in Japan except the non-stop walking on sidewalks (It's hard to not stop when lost).



A side note:

"I wouldn't complain too much about taking on debts as a student. You won't get a lot of sympathy."
That was uncalled for, in my opinion.
First of all, I did no such thing. I said I had no money, and would like to avoid the risk involved with large debts.
Second of all, I asked for no sympathy.

"Besides, having a degree will make you better off in the long run."
I can name 10 people off the top of my head who have them and have never made a dime with them. They're all in good careers, but their degree had nothing to do with it.
The only people I know who use their degrees are teachers and lawyers.
I have seen job postings that require a degree, but those are often glorified secretary positions. That's insane. 30k a year is ****(it is; look at inflation and compare average salaries over the past 30 years), and to incur 100k in debt to get that is ludicrous. This is not the reason I posted this, though...
 
When you say you have experience, how much experience do you have? Have you translated professionally? If so, for how long?
 
The only people I know who use their degrees are teachers and lawyers. I have seen job postings that require a degree, but those are often glorified secretary positions. That's insane. 30k a year is ****(it is; look at inflation and compare average salaries over the past 30 years), and to incur 100k in debt to get that is ludicrous. This is not the reason I posted this, though...

If you're familiar with the answer to the question "Why does the dog lick its balls?" * then you'll understand Japan's first degree requirement for the vast majority of work visa applications.

Since I graduated in 1988 back in the UK and therefore didn't pay a penny for my tuition I sympathize. A quick bit of math tells me that three years working on the JET program in a rural city/town location with potentially rent-free accommodation and approximately 28 man/month cash in your back-pocket comes to around 1000 man or about US$89000 gross. But YES you'll need a UK 3-year or USA 4-year first degree.

It's been a while since anyone suggested this but there's always the ring on the finger route...there are still a significant number of websites dedicated to this particular course of action.


--

* "Because it can"
 
Perhaps beside the point, but here goes.
Fees for education and going into debt with financial aid pretty much suck, but 90 grand is way steep for college debt. You can work while you go to school to pay for rent and food, and use federal student aid to pay tuition. If you're old enough not to have to claim your parents' income on the FAFSA, from a family that is not well off and no college graduates, you can also possibly get handouts (Pell grants, scholarships or whatever) that you don't have to pay back, etc. Furthermore you can save a good amount of money by doing the first couple years of courses at a community college. If you only take out loans for tuition and books and work for food and rent, you should not have to go too much more than 20-25k into debt, if that.

Also, the plausibility of living/working in Japan without a degree seems like one of the most asked questions 'round these parts. I was asking the same question myself when I was in high school, because I thought I wanted out of the US and didn't want to have to hang around another four or more years to go to college. I stuck around and went to college and found that I was able to take advantage of some nice opportunities to do interesting things that paid pretty well, earned me some practical skills, and should look good on my CV/resume. Yeah, I'll have some debt when I get out (but if I move on to grad school I don't have to worry about paying it off yet) but going to college was really not a regrettable decision.
You might not absolutely have to go to college and get a degree if you can find some work-around, but it's a good choice anyway.
 
I tried to read that site, and the level of legalese an circular linking(see here for more information, see here for more information just sending me to two sections of the same page or something) confused me... I'll try again, but I'll probably need to ask for help from someone I know who's more familiar with this.
I presume this is a crack at me? Look, the first rule one has to learn about dealing with government bureacracies (I know, a redundant term) is that every case is different. The MOFA page lists guidelines, not hard and fast rules, for a reason. If you think you fit a certain visa type and have a question, please ask here, and we'll do our best to help. No promises on certainties, though. I've been here 10 years and have yet to see one.

I'm looking for work that's legal for me to do and doesn't involve heavy lifting(I have a bad back). Were it not for my back I'd just become and illegal construction worker. I hear it's not that bad.
Illegal work is not that bad? You are deluding yourself. Get caught and you risk fines, 23 days interrogation without a lawyer, deportation at your expense, and being blacklisted from returning for 5-10 years. Who told you it's "not that bad"?

What I'm saying is I'm not that picky.
It's not a matter of being picky. It's a matter of whether you fit any work visa requirements.

A side note:

"I wouldn't complain too much about taking on debts as a student. You won't get a lot of sympathy."
That was uncalled for, in my opinion.
Look. Sorry if you took my remarks as personal, but lately a ton of people have been asking the same questions you did (as dblbstrd confirmed in his post). No experience, no degree, no high fluency in the language, yet they insist that there must be some way to get a work visa here. Please be realistic. Would any foreigner with equivalent stats have much of a chance in your country?

I said I had no money, and would like to avoid the risk involved with large debts.
Risk? You don't want to go to university where you stand the best chance of landing a job that will last you a lifetime here, simply by virtue of the fact that most work visas here require a degree. Pay up front, study a little (yes, 3 or 4 years is short compared to the rest of your life), and prepare yourself better. No degree will put you one step below the bottom rung on the work ladder for jobs. Picky or no, those qualifications won't get you anywhere here (the second most expensive country in the world).

Second of all, I asked for no sympathy.
Not directly, no.

"Besides, having a degree will make you better off in the long run."
I can name 10 people off the top of my head who have them and have never made a dime with them. They're all in good careers, but their degree had nothing to do with it.
Did they find work in Japan? Did they have to face immigration requirements just to get their foot past a tourist status of 90-day stay? We're probably talking apples and oranges here with those 10 people. Trust me. I've been here a decade.

The only people I know who use their degrees are teachers and lawyers.
You need to see more people. Doctors, nurses, architects, engineers, etc.

I have seen job postings that require a degree, but those are often glorified secretary positions.
Geez, man! Where are you looking?! Besides, you don't even seem to have the qualifications for those glorified positions anyway. Not here anyway.

That's insane. 30k a year is ****
Think of it this way. Snub your nose at getting an education, and you have to reap the harvest. It will not be a bumper crop.

If you think I'm not being helpful, look here. www.jobsinjapan.com If you see anything you feel suitable for or have an interest in, please write back here and explain why. Be sure you have confirmed whatever work visa requirements are needed, and report the wages. Minimum wage here is around the equivalent of US$7/hour, and national health insurance is not cheap. Want an apartment? You'll have to pay 2-5 times the rent just to move into an empty place. No furniture, no appliances, nothing. Choose to live alternatively in a guest house to avoid paying for those things, and you will still have to fork out the equivalent of $500-800 a month just for the roof over your head.

You family was not well off? Neither was mine. I worked at home, supported my siblings and mother, and still paid my own way through college.

I have experience with translating, tutoring Japanese people in English, and I'm conversationally fluent in Japanese. I'm confident I could also re-learn German in under a year.
I presume that was freelance tutoring, which won't count as real experience on a work visa application. It might fly with an employer, but they don't call the shots. Immigration does. Have 3 years of real teaching experience, and you can bypass the degree requirements for the visa, but you will still have to live with no degree and search high and low for an employer to hire you. The market is terribly flooded with teachers here nowadays, as I mentioned earlier. Translating is a highly competitive market, too, and most people have professional experience, certifications, and degrees. Not much call for German here; a few part-time positions, but those don't qualify for work visas.

That and linux-related computer skills are my skill set.
Look at www.daijob.com/en and see what the average programmer requirements are. Language ability and experience usually.

Well, I've been told I'd make a good host, but I'm not a good judge of my own looks, though I know I'm good with courtesy industry tasks.
Hosting? In bars or restaurants? Modeling? Need an agent and some language proficiency.

Bottom line, you don't seem to realize that having a degree (ANY degree) is not so much a risk as it is a strong foothold on long-term survival. Forget the exceptions to the rule (didn't Bill Gates drop out?).
 
Let me add my perspective. I work in the U.S. software industry. I have met several co-workers who did not have a college degree and they made good salaries. I can think of 3 people who made over $100K per year without a degree. These people had many years of experience, worked hard, and moved up the ladder. All of them were younger than 45.

Not having a college degree is not a huge deal in my industry. Sure, it's good to have, but it's not essential for success. What companies see is that there are many people who graduate from college with a degree and can't get the job done. Then there are people with no degree, but some can demonstrate (through a portfolio or other means) that they know what they are doing... Many (but not all) employers don't worry too much about the degree and are willing to give a chance to people who can show that they will get things done for them. It's really up to the hiring managers.

Sometimes people are surprised to hear this. I spent many years in college myself and after I graduated, I didn't like seeing someone without a degree making more money than me. It went against my assumptions. It just felt wrong. But alas there it was ... Still I am happy that I got my degree. Why? Because I want to live in Japan! And having a degree is a MUST if you want to do that. Yes, there are other ways, like marrying a Japanese and getting a spouse visa, but do really want to do that just to live there? If you could somehow get past the immigration restriction, I think you would find that in general Japanese employers pay a lot of attention to your educational background and it often means more to them than their U.S. counterparts. From what I hear, the particular college that a Japanese graduates from can actually determine the companies that would be willing to hire them! That pretty much tells you what Japanese think about education... Maybe you would be better off in another country?
 
Yes, but having a valid visa is not an issue for you, is it?

The four degree is less about obtaining work than it is for obtaining a visa to work overseas.
 
From what I hear, the particular college that a Japanese graduates from can actually determine the companies that would be willing to hire them! That pretty much tells you what Japanese think about education...
Not exactly. They don't value the grades; they "value" the reputation or name of the university. It is well-known that the hard part of a student's education in Japan is up to getting into university. After he is in, it is usually a time to relax and coast. Employers just want to see you graduate, and after that, they mold you into their image.

One exception to this point is that many companies here now (perhaps 80%) are also very interested in seeing TOEIC scores, but that has nothing to do with the OP.
 
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