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33 metro teachers hit for symbol snub

Davey

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I just saw this news on the net, and I am wondering what everyone is thinking about a National Anthem.
1.Do you think people should be able to sing it? or do you think it is old fashion?
2.Do you know your own n. anthem from your mind?
3.what does a National anthem have to do with pride or respect to your own country?
4.and for all foreigners that are teaching in Japan, do you think it's important to sing/know the Japanese anthem? * Should english teachers also sing the anthem?
The Japan times.
By AKEMI NAKAMURA
Staff writer

The Tokyo Metropolitan board of education Friday punished 33 public school teachers who refused to stand to face the national flag and sing "Kimigayo," the national anthem, at March graduation ceremonies.
The penalties ranged from warnings to pay cuts and suspensions -- depending on how many times teachers disobeyed orders from principals to honor the flag or sing the anthem...
Read All
"Children have the right to refuse to sing the anthem, as the (central) government said that it does not compel (them) to sing it under the (1999) law," he said. "But forcing teachers to rise and sing the anthem means effectively forcing children (to do the same)."
 

shiroma

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日教組

It is just that the members of communist teacher union been trying to make children despise their national flag and anthem, something unimaginable in the US and other nations.
This is an article written by an anti-Japan minion Ian Buruma, mentioning JTU:

A Sorry State
Marxists had their own ideological reasons for seeing the dark past in terms of "feudalism" and "capitalist imperialism" and it was not uncommon in the 1950s and 1960s for Marxist school teachers to praise Chairman Mao's China while denouncing imperialist Japanese history in the most lurid manner. Such teachers had a strong influence on the Japan Teachers Union, whose institutional power only began to crumble in the 1980s.
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gaijinalways

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This has been going on in Japan for a while, this form of ultranationalism. They have had other protest againist singing it, and some repercussions with a few court cases. In my opinion, if people want to sing it, fine. If not, I would just ask that they don't make any noise, whether they stand or not is their business (oh, I know most of the words to my own country's, and I promise not to grab my crotch when I sing it:p ). As to singing the Japanese anthem, no thanks. I'll lipsync it for you though🙂 !

A funny story to relate from Taiwan. I was at a baseball game, and a fan near me asked me to stand up during the Taiwanese anthem. Then right after, they play the American anthem, and the same guy doesn't stand up (I didn't say anything, just thought he was a hypocrite)!
 

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Many Japanese do not feel confortable with the present "national anthem" which is actually a song honoring the Emperor. In Denmark we have one "Kings song" which serves as "national anthem" whenever the royal family is present, othewise we use the far more popular "national anthem" which praises the beauty of the country. Whenever the "Kings song" is played in Denmark you can be certain that there will always be some who remains seated, but that has certainly newer been made into a problem. In a real democarcy you do have the right to be in favor of a republic. When the popular song is used everyone gladly sings.

I believe that there have been suggestions in the past about finding a new Japanese "national anthem" which more people would be happy with, but I guess that most people fear the reaction from the ultra nationalists and stay quiet. No one likes confrontation if they can avoid it. I therefore wonder if the Danish compromise with two songs could also work for Japan?
 

misa.j

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I really dislike Japanese national anthem. I didn't even know whether it was honoring the emperor or something else because the words used in it are so old fashioned.
It sounds depressing too.

Luckily, I didn't have to sing it so often when I was in school.
 
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Davey

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Okay the Japanese anthem, here is the music. and here are the lyrics:
JAPANESE LYRICS
Kimiga yo wa Chiyoni
Yachiyoni Sazaréishi no,
Iwao to narité,
Koké no musumadé.
---
JAPANESE LYRICS (Japanese script)

---
ENGLISH TRANSLATION
May thy peaceful reign last long!
May it last for thousands of years,
Until this tiny stone will grow into a massive rock
And the moss will cover it all deep and thick.
I hoe this is the right text and the good music.



The government presented its interpretation of the meaning of the anthem "Kimigayo" in the Diet during the deliberation of a bill to codify the country's national flag and anthem. At the plenary session of the House of Representatives of the Diet held on June 29, 1999, Prime Minister Obuchi explained as follows: "Kimi in 'Kimigayo', under the current Constitution of Japan, indicates the Emperor, who is the symbol of the State and of the unity of the people, deriving his position from the will of the people with whom resides sovereign power; 'Kimigayo' as a whole depicts the state of being of our country, which has the Emperor–deriving his position from the will of the people with whom resides sovereign power–as the symbol of itself and of the unity of the people; and it is appropriate to interpret the words of the anthem as praying for the lasting prosperity and peace of our country."

It is not known who first wrote the words of the anthem. Although they are found in a poem contained in two anthologies of Japanese 31-syllable waka, namely, the 10th-century Kokin wakashu and the 11th-century Wakan roeishu, the name of the poem's author is unknown.

From very early times, the poem was recited to commemorate auspicious occasions and at banquets celebrating important events. The words were often put to music with melodies typical of such vocal styles as yokyoku (sung portions of Noh performances), kouta (popular songs with shamisen accompaniment), joruri (dramatic narrative chanting with shamisen accompaniment), saireika (festival songs), and biwauta (songs with biwa accompaniment). The words were also used in fairy tales and other stories and even appeared in the Edo-period popular fiction known as ukiyo-zoshi and in collections of humorous kyoka (mad verse).
Misa.J. do you sing the American anthem? or know it?
 

bossel

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Dutch Baka said:
1.Do you think people should be able to sing it? or do you think it is old fashion?
2.Do you know your own n. anthem from your mind?
3.what does a National anthem have to do with pride or respect to your own country?
4.and for all foreigners that are teaching in Japan, do you think it's important to sing/know the Japanese anthem? * Should english teachers also sing the anthem?
1) It's just a song. Who cares?
2) The 1st 2 lines, but again: Who cares?
3) Nothing. Anyway, what reason is there to respect or be proud of something as abstract as a nation?
 

gaijinalways

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Bosel,

I gotta hand to you, makes me want to toss out my passport (that is, until the next time I wanna take a trip)😊 !

But you are right, it is just a song, just like a flag is just a flag. Both of them are symbols though, which for some will mean something depending on how much of a nationalist you are.
 

Hachiro

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Well, if anyone here remembers Ishihara Shintaro, he actually had teachers fired for not standing up during the national anthem.

It is a touchy subject to say the least.

I think that neither the Hino-maru (the flag) nor Kimigayo (the national anthem) have been "officially" recognized by the Japanese government after world war two.
 

pipokun

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Dutch Baka said:
...
Misa.J. do you sing the American anthem? or know it?

I'm also curious if she dare not to respect the US flag/anthem there now.
 

misa.j

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Dutch Baka said:
Misa.J. do you sing the American anthem? or know it?
I don't sing it, but I know it. I think it's very inspiring.
pipokun said:
I'm also curious if she dare not to respect the US flag/anthem there now.
Hey pipokun, disliking something doesn't mean disrespecting it. Please read my post more carefully. I also have a right to disrespect even a song and even if I do, it's none of your business.
 

shiroma

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国旗及び国歌に関する法律

Hachiro said:
I think that neither the Hino-maru (the flag) nor Kimigayo (the national anthem) have been "officially" recognized by the Japanese government after world war two.
Wrong.

As mentioned in the past: Link
ToMach said:
Even if it was used as a national flag by cutsom, it's only in 1999 that it was officialized by a law.
A cabinet page says:

National Flag & National Anthem
Regarding the national flag and national anthem, in August 1999 the Law Regarding the National Flag and National Anthem was passed, and the rising sun flag and "Kimi ga Yo" respectively became the national flag and anthem.
PM's Statement
 
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Davey

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pipokun said:
I'm also curious if she dare not to respect the US flag/anthem there now.

what's this supposed to mean? if she Dare to not respect it? :eek:
 

Kinsao

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I know the English national anthem, but I don't like it, just because I don't like the music (I find it a bit dull and uninspiring), I'm not particularly anti-national or anti-royal. Actually there aren't many occasions when I've been in the situation that everyone is singing the national anthem, but I'm happy enough to sing it. If you don't sing it, people think you're making an anti-royals statement. I'm indifferent to the royals, so I don't really care to 'make a statement' by refusing to sing it.

I think it is way too dictatorial to make people sing the national anthem and in fact that approach would more encourage people to refuse to sing it out of a protest, IMO.

If people want to be seen to be non-nationalistic, let them.

I just think the English national anthem is a bit insipid in words and tune. Pretty shallow of me, I know, but if I liked the song I'd belt it out! XD 🧑‍🎤
 
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Davey

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The Anthem that we have is a song from the 80 years of war we had with Spain, So yeah I think it's a bit old, and time for a new anthem.

I know the main part of it!
 

pipokun

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Dutch Baka said:
what's this supposed to mean? if she Dare to not respect it? :eek:
Nothing special. But you could understand Japan is a country of free speech.
 

shiroma

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Dutch Baka said:
May thy peaceful reign last long!
May it last for thousands of years,
Until this tiny stone will grow into a massive rock
And the moss will cover it all deep and thick.
Interesting contrast with the anthem of a certain nation: Link
Arise, ye who refuse to be slaves!
Let us amount our flesh and blood towards our new Great Wall!
The Chinese nation faces its greatest peril,
The thundering roar of our peoples will be heard!
Arise! Arise! Arise!
We are many, but our hearts beat as one!
Selflessly braving the enemy's gunfire, march on!
Selflessly braving the enemy's gunfire, march on!
March on! March on! on!
Which song sounds more blood-thirsty then.
 

lastmagi

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窶督シ窶督ウ窶堋オ said:
Interesting contrast with the anthem of a certain nation: LinkWhich song sounds more blood-thirsty then.

Tell me, does it actually make you satisfied with yourself to relate every single thing to the Great Evil Country That Shall Not Be Named, and cast every critic of Japanese policy as an Anti-Japan Spawn of Satan?

I love ultranationalistic pride and hypocrisy. It can get so funny. Sometimes.

Tip: The more you make polarizing posts, the more you make the thing that YOU represent look bad. And of course, the worse off you appear anyway. But I'm sure you don't even care. Your loss.
 

gaijinalways

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The Chinese song does sound a bit more blood thirsty. But than again, the American anthem is talking about a battle:p .
 
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Davey

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Court rules that teachers don't have to sing national anthem

Thursday, September 21, 2006 at 18:25 EDT

TOKYO ツ― The Tokyo District Court ruled Thursday that teachers and librarians are not obliged to sing the Kimigayo national anthem at school events despite Tokyo authorities' instruction to do so. Judge Koichi Namba said the Tokyo metropolitan government and its education board's notice to force teachers to sing Kimigayo in front of the Japanese flag infringes on freedom of thought and is against the basic education law.

"I can't believe we got such a great ruling from the court. I am really glad that I fought through the adversity," said Ayako Kawaguchi, 48, a teacher who says her colleagues were reprimanded for refusing to sing Kimigayo at their school. The suit was filed by 401 incumbent and former teachers and librarians against the metropolitan government and its education board after they issued a notice in October 2003 demanding that public school employees stand and sing the national anthem in front of the Japanese flag during entrance and graduation ceremonies at schools.

© 2006 Kyodo News.
 

caster51

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I think teacher should not force sutudents not to sing national anthem,either
Kimi is not Emperor originaly.
Kimi was certainly changed and used in the emperor's meaning too
to change the meaning of Kimi from emperor to "you", that is, you can change the meaning.
 

Mikawa Ossan

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Forcing people to do patriotic things does not breed true patriotism. That being said, part of the role of public school is to raise responsible citizens. It is easily argued that a basic sense of patriotism is inherent in being a responsible citizen.

Therefore, I believe that it is part of the school's role to promote patriotism, although I don't think it should be force-fed.
 

pipokun

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I was disappointed to see some teachers asking the local govenment not to appeal to a higher court.
Freedom of thought is really important, no doublt about it, but it is interesting to prevent other party from excercising their right.
I saw some "no flag, no anthem" teachers when I was at school, but no teacher helped me for my fundamental human right, going to school by motor bike. I just received a detention.

Anyways, till the supreme court, maybe 5 or more years.
 

Revenant

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I already find a lot of Japanese to be quietly but fiercely nationalistic.
 

Mikawa Ossan

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I was disappointed to see some teachers asking the local govenment not to appeal to a higher court.
Freedom of thought is really important, no doublt about it, but it is interesting to prevent other party from excercising their right.
I saw some "no flag, no anthem" teachers when I was at school, but no teacher helped me for my fundamental human right, going to school by motor bike. I just received a detention.
Anyways, till the supreme court, maybe 5 or more years.
I have to go to bed, so I can't discuss this much right now, but the national flag and anthem have only been officially recognized by law since 1999. My guess is that you were a student before that. That adds another wrinkle to this problem.

Personally, I don't think teachers should make a fuss about such issues. I personally feel that if they care deeply about this issue, they should teach students about the situation in a balenced way (including information and positions that they may disagree with) and teach the students to make up their own minds.

Teachers are civil servants first and foremost. Therefore they have certain limitations inherent in their job description. One of them is campaigning for political parties. I think another should be for making their political positions known to their students. Teachers, say what you will, do have a significant influence on their students after all.

Note that these opinions I hold are completely independent from my opinions on Hinomaru and Kimigayo.
 
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