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言外に・まで・出会い頭

raikado

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Hello,

1) (まで:) 極端な例をあげて、他の場合を言外に推測させる意を表す。…さえ。(まで【迄】[副助終助]の意味 - goo国語辞書)
My guess for what this sentence means is: "It states an extreme example and makes the listener guess the other cases (without them being mentioned)."

The definition for 言外 is "言葉に出さない部分"...so it should be a noun, but it doesn't make sense here.
言外に seems to be an adverb here that shows that what should be understood is left unsaid.

2) 「衣類」は、帯、靴下、肌着などまで含めて体に着けるものすべてに対する総称。(いるい【衣類】の類語・シソーラス - 類語辞書 - goo辞書)
Does まで has that meaning here? ( 極端な例をあげて、他の場合を言外に推測させる意を表す。…さえ。)
I mean, 帯、靴下、肌着など should be considered extreme exemples (極端な例) of 体に着けるもの, right?

3) Another word that seems to be used with a different meaning from what the dictionary says is 出会い頭. I encountered it in a card game. The definition is 出合ったとたん。出合い拍子。.

Challenge title:運命の出会い頭
Intro: 出会い頭に運命の出会いが?!クラスを1つ選んだら、デッキに何が入っているかは対戦してみてのお楽しみ!

For "出会い頭に運命の出会いが?!", the dictionary definition seems fine, but what does 運命の出会い頭 mean?
出会い頭 seems to also be used as a noun for "a car crash at an intersection". More generally, I think it means "unexpected encounter where 2 people/things are coming from different directions".
 

Toritoribe

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1)
See the following thread. 言外 is not a noun as same as 大荒れ, 上々 or がらあき.

"no" adjectives | Japan Forum

2)
The basic concept of まで is to indicate the boundary of a range both spatially and temporally. I think it doesn't necessarily connotes the nuance of "extreme" there.

3)
It's used as the meaning 出会い頭の対戦/対決/出会い or like that. Have you ever seen an expression something like 彼が聞いた運命の大好き? This 大好き is actually 「大好き」, i.e., 大好きというセリフ. 出会い頭 is the similar usage to this there.
 

raikado

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1) I see. Then the dictionary definition is really misleading. Especially when compared to the definitions of the other 3 words.
For my original example, would 極端な例をあげて、他の場合を言葉に出さなかったままに推測させる意を表す be a good interpretation?

2) Thank you! I wasn't sure if it was #4 まで, or just the regular one.

3) No, I haven't seen it. It actually took me a while to understand that sentence, but that was mainly because of 運命の. Thank you! I've probably seen this kind of thing before but I wasn't aware of it.

4) I had one more question to ask, but the post was getting quite long. Another challenge from the same card game:
Title: 出会い頭の出会い
Text: いっけなーい!遅刻遅刻!私、ヒーロー子。別のヒーローとぶつかっちゃって、デッキに2クラス分のカードがランダムに混ざっちゃった!

How do you read the 子 in ヒーロー子? Is it こ? ( 名詞や動詞の連用形に付いて、その仕事をする人や物の意を表す。; こ【子/児】の意味 - goo国語辞書)
 

Toritoribe

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1)
Yes, but it should be 言葉に出さないままに. 出さないで is more common, though.

2)
I'm sure it shows that the speaker is a girl.
 

raikado

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1) Ah, right. Thanks!

2) Thank you! That didn't even cross my mind. There was also a drawing showing 2 guys bumping into each other, so that's why I didn't consider it.
 
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