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気づいた / いいので / で / 地震のことを考えて

eeky

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Hi,


1. This is the first line of an email:

じゅん君、気づいたかな?

To me this looks like it means "Jun, I wonder if you've noticed...?", referring to the content of the email that follows (which is is about 喫茶店 culture). However, its positioning at the start of an email on a line by itself makes me wonder if it's actually some set greeting or pleasantry?


2. In an email, one friend has asked another to buy some items for her at a Tokyo department store. Then she says:

時間があるときでいいので送ってください。

I don't really get でいいので. To me it looks like "It's good when you have the time, so please send me (the items)", which isn't really coherent.


3. その教室のオーナーで先生のたま子さんは、十代の時、伊豆半島で旅芸人の踊り子をしていたそうで、あの川端康成の小説の「伊豆の踊り子」に出てくる踊り子に違いない、とおばあちゃんはひそかに思っていたが、聞けなかったそうだ。

My translation: "Tamako-san, the owner of the dance school, had apparently been an itinerant dancer in the Izu Peninsula in her teens, and (your) grandmother said she always secretly believed that she was the dancer in 川端康成's novel 「伊豆の踊り子」, but could never ask."

a) At the beginning, is で the copula? Is it saying 先生のたま子さんはその教室のオーナーだった?

b) Does 先生のたま子さん mean たま子先生?

c) At the end, does 聞けなかった mean she couldn't ask because she thought it was rude, or she was too shy, or something like that?


4. ええ、地震のことを考えて怖くなりました。今地震が来れば家がめちゃくちゃになりますね。道で寝なければなりません。家族や友達が心配です。

a) Is the subject of 寝る "people in general"?

b) In 家族や友達が心配です, who is worried? The speaker? People in general? 家族や友達?

c) Are the last two sentences still governed by 今地震が来れば?
 

Toritoribe

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1)
No. Your initial interpretation is correct.

2)
It's OK/no problem...

3)
そう in 踊り子をしていたそう is hearsay. Grandmother heard that Tamako had been a dancer or the writer heard it from her(= grandmother).
おばあちゃん refers to the writer's, i.e., "my" grandmather, doesn't it?

a)
Yes.

b)
Both オーナー and 先生 modifiy たま子. She was the owner and also a/the teacher of the school.

c)
Seems like so.

4) a) b)
I think it's "I".

b)
Yes.
 

eeky

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Thanks Toritoribe,

2) Sorry, I still don't get this. To me, 時間があるときで looks like it means "when you have time". ので looks like it means "because". 送ってください looks like it means "please send me (the items you bought)". I don't understand where "it's OK/no problem" fits into that.

3) I think "apparently" covers the hearsay aspect correctly, no?

The writer is the addressee's father, so presumably おばあちゃん is the writer's mother and the addressee's grandmother. Does that work?

b) The grammatical structure of その教室のオーナーで先生のたま子さん is a bit of a puzzle to me, but I cannot really pin down any specific question to ask. Do you have any other ideas that might help me understand it?

4) So 家族や友達が心配です can mean "I (would be) worried about friends and family"? Is this another example where が marks something that is not the subject in an English-language interpretation?
 

Mike Cash

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気づいた / いいので / で / 地震のことを考えて

2. Functionally: any time is okay....no rush.
 

Toritoribe

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2)
送るのは時間があるときでいいので
It's OK/no problem to send it to me when you have the time

Does this make more sense?

3)
I just wanted to emphasize the difference between 踊り子をしていたそう and 踊り子をしていたよう. If you know that, there's no problem.

And as for the おばあちゃん thing, that makes sense.

b)
その教室のオーナーであり、かつ先生の(= でもある)たま子さん

4)
家族や友達が心配です CAN'T mean "My friends and family would be worried about me/something". It must be 心配します for the case. が indicates the object of 心配だ, not the subject, as same as many other adjectives that express emotions/sense, such as 怖い, 楽しい, 嫌いだ, 痛い.
 

eeky

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Thanks to you both.

2) 送るのは時間があるときでいい makes sense to me. I don't really understand the reason for ので, either on the end of your sentence or in the original sentence 時間があるときでいいので送ってください.

I understand the rest of the stuff, thanks.
 

Toritoribe

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ので doesn't indicate "reason/cause" in this case. It shows a situation where the request 送ってください is valid. See the following examples.

お部屋を用意しておりますので、どうぞお使いください。
テーブルの上に財布が置いてあるから取ってきて。

お部屋を用意しております is not the reason why the speaker recommends using a room, and テーブルの上に財布が置いてある is not the reason why the speaker asks to bring the wallet, either. The reason must be the speaker thinks the addressee would be tired and the speaker needs the wallet, respectively. They are a prerequisite of the main clause. In this usage of ので/から, the main clause must be a mood such like request, order, recommendation, invitation.
 

Zlarp

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時間があるときでいいので送ってください。

Basically what Mike said. A more literal translation might go "Once you have the time and it's alright with you (if you don't mind/if it's good with you), it would be nice if you would send it."
 

eeky

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Thanks for the explanations. I find these examples easier:

お部屋を用意しておりますので、どうぞお使いください。
テーブルの上に財布が置いてあるから取ってきて。

because in these cases I can roughly relate ので and から to English "so". I find 時間があるときでいいので送ってください harder, but if ので can equate to something like "once" or "when" then that could work for me.

Edited: I just noticed another thing though. Does いい mean "good with you" per Zlarp, or "good/OK for me" per my understanding of Mike's paraphrase? That seems to make a difference...
 

Toritoribe

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Your understanding "OK/no problem for me" is correct.

ので is not "once" or "when". It's carried by ときで. The speaker said that "to send me the items when/in the case you have time" is "OK/no problem (for me)", and then continued "so please send me". This doesn't make sense yet?
 

eeky

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Presently...

I understand 時間があるときでいい to mean "it's OK with me when(ever) you have the time".

I understand 送ってください to mean "please send it to me".

I must admit that I still do not fully grasp how ので connects those two things.
 

Mike Cash

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気づいた / いいので / で / 地震のことを考えて

Sometimes it is important to not get hung up on how X does Y, but rather to just know that it does.

I've used that structure, and similar variants, for years and honestly have never given the slightest thought to how that works. I would have answered "how", except that I didn't have a clue myself until I saw Toritoribe's answer. I would have and could have continued using it to my dying day without ever having seen the explanation. Sometimes the "how" and "why" just turn into obstacles in your path, unless you learn how to step over them and keep on going.
 

eeky

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I do not consider asking about things I don't understand to be an "obstacle".
 

Toritoribe

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I remember you asked about が that is not an adversative conjunction, for instance #5 b in the following thread.

くらいなら / しっかり / ために / 努力規定 / ことだ | Japan Forum

It's quite similar to this が. In fact, you can use が/けど here instead of ので depending on the form of the main clause.

時間があるときでいいんだが、送ってくれないか。
時間があるときでいいんだけど、送ってくれない?

These ので, が, or けど are used to introduce the main clause. I used "prerequisite" in this meaning in my previous post.
 

eeky

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Maybe you should start doing so.
What a stupid comment.

---------- Post added at 23:44 ---------- Previous post was at 23:36 ----------

I remember you asked about が that is not an adversative conjunction, for instance #5 b in the following thread.

https://jref.com/forum/learning-jap...93w%97%CD%8Bk%92%E8-%82%B1%82%C6%82%BE-48277/

It's quite similar to this が. In fact, you can use が/けど here instead of ので depending on the form of the main clause.

時間があるときでいいんだが、送ってくれないか。
時間があるときでいいんだけど、送ってくれない?

These ので, が, or けど are used to introduce the main clause. I used "prerequisite" in this meaning in my previous post.
Thanks, that is helpful. After two and a half years (gosh), I have almost got my head around the fact that が is not always adversative. How you recall these threads from so long ago continues to amaze me.
 

Mike Cash

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You're the one who ignored well-meant advice.

Actually, I was the one who gave advice even though I should have known it wasn't pertinent.

You and I are thinking of it in the same way a person walking through a forest thinks....he has in mind the goal of getting through to the other side. If in the forest we see someone stopping to examine every single tree, we have to keep in mind that some people just like examining trees and aren't necessarily trying to get somewhere. Eeky enjoys examining stuff and.....as far as I can tell.....isn't really all that interested in breaking out of the forest. It's his business how he wants to go about his studies and I should have remembered that.
 

Zlarp

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Actually, I was the one who gave advice even though I should have known it wasn't pertinent.

You and I are thinking of it in the same way a person walking through a forest thinks....he has in mind the goal of getting through to the other side. If in the forest we see someone stopping to examine every single tree, we have to keep in mind that some people just like examining trees and aren't necessarily trying to get somewhere. Eeky enjoys examining stuff and.....as far as I can tell.....isn't really all that interested in breaking out of the forest. It's his business how he wants to go about his studies and I should have remembered that.

Your advice seemed pertinent to me. After all, this is the "Learning Japanese" forum, but then, I guess you're right.

I shall endeavour not to present my opinion in this thread anymore, because, as you say, it is clearly not sought after.
 

Mike Cash

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I was referring to your advice, yes. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I was in no way taking credit. I shall endeavour not to present my opinion in this thread anymore, because, as you say, it is clearly not sought after.

No, you were perfectly clear. I meant that I already knew his preference is to be in permanent study mode and not break through in to practical usage mode, which as you know sometimes involves accepting things as they are without asking the "why" or "how" about them. Eeky is the most dedicated and diligent Japanese learner I know and I have great respect for the amount of work he puts into it. He does sincerely appreciate any advice which is directly related to his questions. I was wrong to give advice that I knew wasn't in line with his reasons for studying Japanese, as we have discussed it in the past.
 

Zlarp

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I quickly realized that and edited my post right away, but you were too quick to read my reply. Sorry about that.
 

eeky

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My present goal is to learn how to read Japanese. This is for personal interest. To that end, I like to understand the meaning and grammar of all the sentences that I read, as far as possible. I often come across things that I do not fully understand, which I am curious about. That is why I ask many questions at this forum. Help with specific language points is always very much appreciated. I am not seeking meta-advice about how to study. Sorry for any misunderstanding, and if I appeared irritable.
 
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