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先生が質問をたくさん聞かせてくれた。

healer

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The above sentence is from Causative and Passive Verbs.
It says when the causative form is used with 「あげる」 and 「くれる」, it almost always means to “let someone do”.
The sentence is supposed to mean "Teacher let (someone) ask lots of questions."

How does くれた fit in with the sentence?
I can't work out whose favour the くれた above is for.

The くれる in the sentences below I suppose they mean doing the speaker a favour.

全部食べさせてくれた
Let (someone) eat it all.
お腹空いているんだから、なんか食べさしてくれよ。
I’m hungry so let me eat something.
 
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cez

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The くれる in the sentences below I suppose they mean doing the speaker a favour.
That is also the feeling of the speaker in the title sentence. "The teacher was so kind to let me (us) ask her/him lots of questions."
 

Buntaro

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When I leave my favorite sushi restaurant, I always say, もう、帰させてもらいたいんですけど。Yes, it sounds like I am doing them a favor!
 

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The above sentence is from Causative and Passive Verbs.
It says when the causative form is used with 「あげる」 and 「くれる」, it almost always means to “let someone do”.
The sentence is supposed to mean "Teacher let (someone) ask lots of questions."

How does くれた fit in with the sentence?
I can't work out whose favour the くれた above is for.

The くれる in the sentences below I suppose they mean doing the speaker a favour.

全部食べさせてくれた
Let (someone) eat it all.
お腹空いているんだから、なんか食べさしてくれよ。
I’m hungry so let me eat something.
First of all, that example sentence 先生が質問をたくさん聞かせてくれた。 is not appropriate, or speaking frankly, that's wrong. 質問を聞く doesn't means "to ask a question". It's only used for "to hear/listen a (usually someone else's) question", so the sentence means "teacher told me/us many questions (for instance, questions regarding specific things the teacher asked before)".

"To ask a question" is just 聞く(the kanji 訊く is often used for this meaning, though) or 質問をする. I would use 先生は/がたくさん質問をさせてくれた。for "Teacher let (me/us) ask lots of questions."

You need to remember that there are unnatural/awkward example sentences in Tae Kim's site, as you already came across in this thread.
 

healer

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That is also the feeling of the speaker in the title sentence.
Thanks!
I did have the sort of feeling but the translation threw me when it says "someone" so I presume the favour is done for someone other than the speaker.
 

healer

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もう、帰させてもらいたいんですけど。
Thanks!

If you don't say this in this context the sentence might not make sense to me. Now I try to translate this to justify its usage. I suppose this is how Japanese people express their gratitude.

Is my translation literally correct?
But I already want to receive a favour of letting me go home.
It suggests one might overstay their welcome.
 

Buntaro

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Healer,

First off, do you know the meaning of "...けど ?
 

healer

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質問を聞く doesn't means "to ask a question
Thanks for your reminder!

I did query this with some Japanese native people before and they said 聞く would often go with the particle から when it means to hear from some person while the particle に can go both ways.

As to 質問を聞く, are you saying it is okay for the meaning if 質問を訊く is written for the intended meaning though it is not appropriate if it is expressed verbally since they both are pronounced the same and 質問をする is preferred for clarity.

I have found quite a few textbooks using the same 聞く and 見る for everything even though there are 聞く 聴く 訊く and 見る 観る 視る respectively for different meanings. I'm not sure if they simply want to make it easy for learners. I personally think this is the wrong approach and that is what Tae Kim's site has advocated against and they use Kanji from the very beginning though this example is somewhat not the best. Teaching a language to an adult should not be the same as teaching Japanese children where they often use kana's instead of kanji's. I have found that I will have to re-learn the words where they have the corresponging kanji and this certainly takes me much more time.

By the way, where can I access all the alerts? Sometimes I try to re-visit some past threads to refresh my memory. When I click on "Show all", it shows the latest six threads at the most. What happens to the rest? It says SHOW ALL. I have to do a search for keywords in order to find what I want.
 

healer

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do you know the meaning of "...けど
It literally means "but, however, though" as a conjunction when it is in the middle of a sentence. When it is at the end of a sentence it is a way that Japanese people try to be polite not saying everything intended but let the listeners guess the rest.

So my translation must be wrong. It doesn't convey the subtle meaning.
 

nice gaijin

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When I leave my favorite sushi restaurant, I always say, もう、帰させてもらいたいんですけど。Yes, it sounds like I am doing them a favor!
is that how you ask for the check? :ROFLMAO:
 

Buntaro

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Healer,

You have the right idea about "...kedo". But there is no need to put the word "but" or "however" into your translation, as this conveys a different idea. I think it would be difficult to translate the original idea into English.
 

Toritoribe

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I did have the sort of feeling but the translation threw me when it says "someone" so I presume the favour is done for someone other than the speaker.
Yes, the given translation "Teacher let (someone) ask lots of questions." is also wrong even if in the correct wording 先生が質問をたくさんさせてくれた。. The recipient of the favor is always the speaker or their in-group member(s) for くれる, so "someone" is not an appropriate translation, as you would already realized.

If you don't say this in this context the sentence might not make sense to me. Now I try to translate this to justify its usage. I suppose this is how Japanese people express their gratitude.

Is my translation literally correct?
But I already want to receive a favour of letting me go home.
It suggests one might overstay their welcome.
You can think that ~(さ)せてもらいたい is a humble expression of ~たい in most cases since this is a form to ask the listener to do a favor for the speaker. (食べさせてもらいたい is an exception since 食べさせる can mean "to feed" other than "to make/let someone eat/allow someone to eat".)
e.g.
行かせてもらいたい(= 行きたい)
入らせてもらいたい(= 入りたい)
勉強させてもらいたい(= 勉強したい)

Thus, 帰らせてもらいたい is a humble expression of 帰りたい (the speaker is asking the listener to do a favor of letting him/her go home for him/her). Thus, もう、帰らせてもらいたいんですけど means "I want to go home already." This is often used in a context "I want to leave here right now." or even "I don't want to stay here any longer."

EDIT:
The original verb of 帰せてもらいたい is a transitive verb 帰, meaning "to let/make someone go home", "to send someone home/back". Thus, 帰させてもらいたい is a humble way of saying 帰したい "I want to let someone go home/I want to send someone home/back". This sentence is used in a context, for instance, where a section chief is asking their boss (e.g., CEO) to let their subordinates go home, so this is not saying about the speaker's going home.
This expression 帰させてもらいたい is rarely used, by the way. Other ways of saying such like 帰らせてあげたい, 帰してあげたい or 帰してやってほしい are usually used for this meaning.


I did query this with some Japanese native people before and they said 聞く would often go with the particle から when it means to hear from some person while the particle に can go both ways.
You already got what "both ways" refers to?

As to 質問を聞く, are you saying it is okay for the meaning if 質問を訊く is written for the intended meaning though it is not appropriate if it is expressed verbally since they both are pronounced the same and 質問をする is preferred for clarity.
Not really. 質問をきく can't mean "to ask a question" whether in spoken or written language, i.e., it's wrong in any kanji.

I have found quite a few textbooks using the same 聞く and 見る for everything even though there are 聞く 聴く 訊く and 見る 観る 視る respectively for different meanings.
The point is that the kanji 訊 or the reading みる for 観る, 視る or 看る are out of 常用漢字. Roughly speaking, it's not wrong to use the kanji 聞く or 見る for all the meanings.

By the way, where can I access all the alerts? Sometimes I try to re-visit some past threads to refresh my memory. When I click on "Show all", it shows the latest six threads at the most. What happens to the rest? It says SHOW ALL. I have to do a search for keywords in order to find what I want.
Hmm, I can get a page for the alerts that contains at least the latest 14 alerts by clicking "Show all".
 

healer

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Roughly speaking, it's not wrong to use the kanji 聞く or 見る for all the meanings.
I often see more than one set of kanji’s or/and more than one pronunciation for one entry in a dictionary. I presume they are all possible but given in the order of popularity. As to words not part of 常用漢字, I’m annoyed the dictionaries don’t exclude them. Perhaps they should at least explicitly say they are not 常用漢字.
 

healer

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I can get a page for the alerts that contains at least the latest 14 alerts by clicking "Show all".
I tried again today I got 10 alerts. Have you changed the settings for me? I'm not sure where to change the settings though.
I should have more than 10 alerts since I joined the forum.
I also believe you would have many more than 14 alerts.
I have expected all the alerts in chronological order where I can scroll through or page through
.Capture.PNG
 

Toritoribe

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I often see more than one set of kanji’s or/and more than one pronunciation for one entry in a dictionary. I presume they are all possible but given in the order of popularity. As to words not part of 常用漢字, I’m annoyed the dictionaries don’t exclude them. Perhaps they should at least explicitly say they are not 常用漢字.
In the page linked above, you can see a white triangle ▽ upper left corner of 視る and 観る. This mark shows that these kanji 視 and 観 are in the 常用漢字 list, but the reading みる is out of it. You can also see the explanations 「看る」とも書く for the definition #3, 「試る」とも書く for #5, or 「診る」とも書く for #7.

There also are these kinds of information in jisho.org.

Similarly, you can see × upper left corner of 阿, 痾 or 吾 in the page linked above. This mark means that these kanji are not 常用漢字.

If you are using MS-IME, you can get a similar (not detailed) information when converting kanji.
miru.jpg

I tried again today I got 10 alerts. Have you changed the settings for me? I'm not sure where to change the settings though.
I should have more than 10 alerts since I joined the forum.
I also believe you would have many more than 14 alerts.
I have expected all the alerts in chronological order where I can scroll through or page through
No, I did nothing.
The number of my alerts is now 17 ,i.e., 14 + 3, which is the number of alarts I got today. I suppose it shows the number of alerts we got in the last 5 days or something.

What do you want to get from the alerts you got? Isn't it enough to see your all posts got by clicking the number under "messages"?
messages.jpg
 

nice gaijin

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My alerts page only has 8 entries, looks like they expire after a few days or a week maybe?
 

healer

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Thanks for your kindness again.

these kanji 視 and 観 are in the 常用漢字 list
I understand from the dictionary I used the kanji 観 is used for watching movie. However I think I have only seen 映画を見る not 映画を観る.

What do you want to get from the alerts you got?
I don't always remember every response I get from the thread. I have hoped to be able to visit again later on those I had forgotten. It looks like I have to use the search facility. I have just misunderstood the button "Show all".
 

OoTmaster

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I would expect there's a retention time period on everything, notifications included. (as there should be on any good database.) I would expect if you've read the notification that the retention period is a lot shorter on those than ones you haven't read. Higher priority notifications could hold a longer retention period. This is just normal database maintenance stuff. Maybe renaming "Show all" to something more descriptive would be helpful. Not sure how much the admin of this site would have to the displays as I'm pretty sure this is developed by someone and used by the forum. I don't expect JREF has hired any/enough developers for this type of code base.
 

Toritoribe

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I understand from the dictionary I used the kanji 観 is used for watching movie. However I think I have only seen 映画を見る not 映画を観る.
I can find over 100 examples of 映画を観る in a corpus.

常用漢字 is just a guideline how to use kanji mostly in official government documents, and not a strict rule or something, so there's no problem to write 映画を観る or 面倒を看る personally.

I don't always remember every response I get from the thread. I have hoped to be able to visit again later on those I had forgotten.
You receive alerts only from the first reply after you posted. In other words, even if you get two or more replies in your thread before you post your next reply, you get only one alert (the one from the first post). I think it's better to see your threads from your previous posts, as I wrote above, not from the alerts you got (or using search functions, of course).

looks like they expire after a few days or a week maybe?
My oldest alert is still "Sunday at 11:08", as same as the day before yesterday, so "a week" seems to be correct.
 

healer

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I can find over 100 examples of 映画を観る in a corpus.
Is this one or the other most popular by Japanese daily usage? Though both are possible and correct it’s good to to know of the usual practice by the natives. You said you found plenty of 映画を見る in the corpus. What sort of corpus was it? Were they some sort of classical literature which doesn’t reflect on contemporary Japanese? If not, perhaps the authors of those textbooks just simply dumb them down for us worrying about overwhelming us with too many kanji’s in one go by not using the best and the most appropriate kanji.

I think it's better to see your threads from your previous posts,
I'm not sure which thread which post you were referring to.
Anyway I can't ask for too much you are already providing free service which I appreciate very much. I started the question because I misunderstood the button and I had supposed I missed something.
The other day when I by mistake deleted the newsletter before reading and I had a hard time trying to find it on the web site. I had expected there would be one place all the past newsletters could be found and accessed. Eventually I had to use the search facility.

One thing I would like to commend on this web site is it always remembers what I have been typing never misses a beat. I have discovered I can stop here halfway and go away anytime, when I come back on another computer sometime later I would still find what I have done so far intact for me to continue. Well done!
 

healer

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there's a retention time period on everything, notifications included.
The data retention period seemed to be "forever" because I could find it from the search engine. It just took more time to find it. High priority notification perhaps needs to get to the intended recipient fast which is more important then being available for longer time.

Anyway please don't get me wrong as I have said I just misunderstood and took it as my stupidity not being able to negotiate the web site effectively. Thanks for all the attention.
 

Toritoribe

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Is this one or the other most popular by Japanese daily usage?
I often use 観る for "to watch", e.g., テレビを観る, when writing (strictly speaking, typing) on digital devices like PC or smartphone, but mostly use 見る when hand-writing.

What sort of corpus was it?
It's a corpus for linguistic researches especially for modern written Japanese. The database contains books, magazines, newspapers, government white papers, blogs, internet forums, school textbooks, the law, etc. in the 30 years (1976~2005).

You can find so many examples of 映画を観る also from Google search results. It quite often contains unreliable/inappropriate usages, though.

I'm not sure which thread which post you were referring to.
I'm talking about this page, where you can find all your posts.
search results.jpg
 
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