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使役て形 / わかる / ...とでも言っておこう

eeky

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Hello,

1. 注)「使役て形+もらう」の文型との意味の違いに注意 。

My translation "Note the difference in meaning compared to the example sentences that use 'causative form + もらう'".

In 使役て形, if 使役 means "causative" and 形 means "form", then what is the role of て?


2. 新聞によると、直径1メートルくらいの球が2つ埋められていて、その中に当時の 科学技術や生活、社会、芸術のことがわかるような物が 入っているらしいです。

My translation: "According to the newspaper, it seems that two one metre diameter spheres are buried; these contain artifacts which reflect the science and technology, daily life, culture and arts of the day."

I'm not very sure about the relationship between わかる and 物, and how the former modifies the latter. Is it saying that the artifacts (物) cause/allow "...ことがわかる", in other words, allow the science, technology, etc. to be understood?


3. 彼とはツーと言えばカーの仲だよ。以心伝心の仲とでも言っておこう。

Translation given: "He and I have a near-telepathic understanding of each other. No sooner does one of us say something than the other is already responding."

I can't figure out "...とでも言っておこう". Is おこう from 置く? How does this part work?
 

Toritoribe

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1)
That's 使役形のて形 or "the -te form of the causative form". (I assume the topic is the difference between ~してもらう and ~させてもらう.)

2)
The subject of わかる is people who will see the artifacts. If the verb is 知らせる, わからせる or like that, it means "cause to be understood" as in your interpretation. I think it's the outside-relation as same as 夜更かしをした次の日 in here.

3)
That's the volitional form of 言っておく. おく is the auxiliary verb, meaning "to do it in preparation for something".
 

eeky

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"the -te form of the causative form"
Oh of course. Silly ol' me!

That's the volitional form of 言っておく. おく is the auxiliary verb, meaning "to do it in preparation for something".
Unfortunately I am still struggling with this one:

以心伝心の仲とでも言っておこう。

I don't understand とでも, or how the whole sentence fits together. Could you show me how it works piece by piece?

Edited: Oh sorry, one other thing I forgot to ask. I'm curious to know: in the expression ツーと言えばカー, what do ツー and カー mean?
 

undrentide

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Unfortunately I am still struggling with this one:

以心伝心の仲とでも言っておこう。

I don't understand とでも, or how the whole sentence fits together. Could you show me how it works piece by piece?

彼とはツーと言えばカーの仲だよ。
(my relationship with him is) the relationship in which one says "tsuu" the other replies "kaa".
以心伝心の仲とでも言っておこう。
(though we have no fixed name for it,) I'd call it 以心伝心の仲 (a relationship where one understands another without talking).


Edited: Oh sorry, one other thing I forgot to ask. I'm curious to know: in the expression ツーと言えばカー, what do ツー and カー mean?

It's a fixed expression, sometimes shorten as ツーカーの仲.
It seems that ツー came from ~っつう(という) and カー そうかあ.

ツーカーの仲の由来とは?

ツーカーの仲の由来とは?
 

Toritoribe

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I don't understand とでも, or how the whole sentence fits together. Could you show me how it works piece by piece?
と(quotation particle) + でも(binding particle 係助詞)

でも
[係助]《断定の助動詞「だ」の連用形+係助詞「も」 から》名詞または名詞に準じる語、助詞に付く。
3 物事をはっきりと言わず、一例として挙げる意を表す。 「けが―したら大変だ」「兄に―相談するか」
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2...1%A7%E3%82%82/

Thus, you can think it as ~と言っておこう + でも or "something like~".
 

eeky

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Thanks guys. For 以心伝心の仲とでも言っておこう, I now have:

以心伝心の仲と言って = "you could say 'telepathic relationship'" / "it could be called a 'telepathic relationship'" / or similar

でも adds sense of "something like (telepathic relationship)"

That leaves おこう. I know this has the sense of "do in preparation for something", but I don't understand how it applies to 言って. What is being done in preparation for what? Also, who is the subject of おこう? Does it mean more like "let's do in preparation" or "I'm going to do in preparation"?

Sorry if I'm being slow here. It's annoying me that I can't seem to figure this out.
 

Toritoribe

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The subject is the speaker. The volitional form expresses the speaker's will here.

As for おく, the following explanation would fit this context.
(オ) 当座の処置としてひとまず…する意を表す。

もう締め切りは過ぎているが一応あずかるだけあずかっ て―・く

「おく」の検索結果 - Yahoo!辞書

You can think ~とでも言っておこう as a kind of euphemism, something like ~みたいなものだ.
 

eeky

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Thanks Toritoribe. Unfortunately I don't properly understand the definition that you quoted for おく, and I still have no sense at all of what おこう means in that sentence. I may have to give up on this one -- unless you can think of a way explain it in English?
 

Glenn

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It's like doing something to deal with something for the time being. Like とりあえず明かりを消しておこう or something (I have no idea where I got that).
 

eeky

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It's like doing something to deal with something for the time being. Like とりあえず明かりを消しておこう or something (I have no idea where I got that).
But what does that have to do with the original sentence?

以心伝心の仲とでも言っておこう。

As I understand it, this is basically saying "You could say we have some sort of telepathic relationship". I don't see where the sense of doing something in preparation, or putting something in place, or dealing with something for the time being, enters into the meaning.

Perhaps I should just treat it as a set expression?
 

Glenn

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How about this? "Let's just say we have a sort of telepathic relationship." Do you know what 一応 means? It's got that sort of vibe. I guess if that doesn't help, just think of it as a set expression, like ~みたいなものだ (like Toritoribe said).
 

Glenn

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Why, thank you. 😅 I'm glad it makes sense for you.:)
 
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