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何か変 / ちょっとしたこと / って / そうなのよ / セーブしてなかった

eeky

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Hi,


1. The speaker's girlfriend has just put the phone down on him. The speaker says:

え、なんだよ。何か変じゃん。

Does this mean "Huh .... what? That's a bit odd..."?


2.
A: あ~あ、今日は疲れたな。ちょっとしたことで課長 に怒られちゃったし・・・。
B: 元気だしてください。明日はきっといいことありま すって。

My translation:

A: Aaah, I'm exhausted today. And the section head was mad at me too, over some small thing.
B: Cheer up! Things are bound to be better tomorrow (lit. there will certainly be good things tomorrow).

a) Does ちょっとしたことで mean "over some small thing" as I translated?

b) What is the purpose of って at the end of the last sentence?


3. 菅原 is complaining that she had problems printing her thesis from her computer.

菅原: ・・・・・・ で、もう一回やったとこを見て たら、今度は何やっても動かなくなって、リセットする しかなくなっちゃったの。
出丸: えっ。そしたら、やったところは・・・。
菅原: そうなのよ。なくなちゃったのよ。

My translation:

菅原: Well, when I tried doing it again, this time nothing worked whatever I did, so I had to reset [the computer].
出丸: Uh, and then, when you did that ...
菅原: ... (Still) it did not work.

Is this correct? What is the purpose of そうなのよ? It seems as if 菅原 is agreeing with what 出丸 just said, but in my interpretation 出丸 seems to be more asking a question "what happened?" than stating anything.


4. Later in the same conversation:

出丸: セーブしてなかったの?
菅原: それが、とにかく打つことに夢中になちゃって て、してなかったのよ。

My translation:

"Hadn't you saved it (the document)?"
"I was preoccupied with typing, so somehow I didn't (save it)."

a) Assuming セーブしてなかった = セーブしていなかった, why that tense?

b) Does に show that 打つこと was the reason for 夢中になちゃってて?

c) Does とにかく mean "somehow", as in my translation?
 

Toritoribe

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1) 2) a)
Yes.

b)
That's a sentence final particle of the same usage as #3 in this thread.

3)
In the first line, Sugawara said もう一回やったとこを見てたら, and not もう一回やってみたら.
やったところ in the second line refers to what Sugawara did/wrote in her thesis. Idemaru(FYI, this is an uncommon family name) actually said "Then, what you did was disappeared?" It's understandable from the context, so Idemaru omitted something like 消えちゃったの? at her sentence end. Sugawara also understood what Idemaru wanted to say, so she(= Sugawara) said yes to Idemaru in the last line. なくなちゃったのよ means "it's disappeared". It's not 動かなくなっちゃったのよ.

4) a)
セーブしなかったの? also can work, but the perfect tence してなかったの has a nuance that the event(= she didn't save it) still has an effect to the present state.

b)
に indicates the object/target of 夢中になる.

c)
とにかく emphasizes 夢中になる, as same as すごく here.
 

eeky

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Thanks Toritoribe,

3. I should not have made the mistake with なくなる, but I would never have realised that やったところ referred to the contents of the thesis. Is this an unusual use of ところ? What does ところ literally mean in this case?

Actually I misread もう一回やったとこを見て たら, despite managing to type it correctly. I suppose this やったとこ also refers to the contents of the thesis?

4a. してなかった is していなかった, right? I'm interested that you would call that the perfect tense. Is that based on its meaning in this sentence? Otherwise it could be past progressive (negative), meaning literally "I was not saving" (though that would not be right in English)?

4b. But essentially it means that 打つこと was the thing that preoccupied her, yes?
 

Toritoribe

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3)
You've encountered this ところ before. ;)

私の友達にあまり勉強しないのに... | Japan Forum

And yes for やったとこ.

4) a)
朝ごはんもう食べた?
ううん、まだ食べてない

This 食べてない is the perfect tense "I have't eat yet", and not the present progressive. ~ている/ていない can express the perfect tense in a context.(I've written a post about this issue in this forum, but I can't find it now.)

b)
Yes, that's right.
 

eeky

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3. I only wish I could remember sentences from all that time ago like you do... I have no idea how you do that!

4a. I'm sorry, I'm getting a bit confused.

i) Is there any difference in meaning/usage between ~ている and derivatives and ~てる and derivatives? I thought there was no difference except that the latter are, obviously, shorter and, I assume, more conversational. You changed from 食べてない to ~てる/てない, but I'm not sure if that was meant to be significant.

ii) Assuming that what you call the perfect tense has exactly the same grammatical form as a progressive tense, is it natural for native speakers to think of them as two different tenses, or is it more like different uses of the same tense?

iii) Your ううん、まだ食べてない example looks somewhat familiar to me in a non-progressive meaning -- more so than the original セーブしてなかった. You termed them both "perfect tense", but of course they are different. Could you shed any more light on that? Could it be that the former corresponds to present perfect in English ("have(n't) eaten", "have(n't) saved") and the latter to past perfect ("had(n't) eaten", "had(n't) saved"). Somehow that seems too easy.
 

Toritoribe

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Sorry, I completely mixed up the two forms. In my example, 食べた in the question is the perfect tense and 食べてない in the answer is the tense that expresses the present state. Similarly, in your example, セーブしていなかった is not the past progressive, as same as 食べていない in my example, but the tense that expresses the state at the time her data was disappeared. She was in the state that her data was not saved at that time, since she hadn't saved it in the more past.

i)
Those are the same. I should have written as ~て(い)る/て(い)ない.
 

eeky

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So, 食べてない can mean "am not eating" (true progressive tense showing activity in progress, or in this case lack of activity in progress) or "haven't eaten" (present state resulting from past action, or in this case lack of action). Is that right? If the first one is the true (negative) progressive tense, then does the second one have a different name?
 

Toritoribe

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Yes, that's right.
I checked a book and this ~ている is called 「完了のテイル」, i.e., "~te iru as perfect tense". ~ている is an aspect and not a tense in the first place, so it can be said that my initial interpretation is not incorrect.
 

eeky

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Oh, OK, thanks. I don't think I have heard the term "perfect tense/aspect" used for that before (in Japanese, I mean).

Do you know what ~ていた is called when used in the sense like we had earlier in the negative with セーブしてなかった? Does that have another name?
 

Toritoribe

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Probably there's no specific name for it. It's basically just テイル形 and the variations.
 
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