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バグを出す/バグが出る

killerinsidee

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Hi, I have a small silly question. What do バグ出す, バグ出し and also バグを出す/バグが出る mean? I thought they meant something like debugging/finding bugs(lit.bring out bugs), but I'm not really sure. Also, I did some searching around and these made me a bit confused:

働きたくないでござる : プログラマ→バグ出すたびに怒られる→バグだすな→鬱になる プログラマ→バグ出すたびに怒られる→バグだすな→鬱になる. Not sure what this title means. What exactly is バグだすな? a command - "don't make bugs"?

https://qixil.jp/q/559 バグを出さないために心がけていることは? - my idea of "debugging" doesn't fit here, so I guess it's a different meaning here? Like "so that (someone) doesn't make/produce bugs"?
FINAL FANTASY XIV, The Lodestone | Kokoro Tukiyomi Blog Entry "バグと仕様と要望と。II下" - バグを出さないと怒られるんだ? "debugging" seems to fit here.
I also saw バグ出しする somewhere, is it any different from バグ出す?

Thank you in advance.
 

Majestic

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Hello Killerinside,

You are correct, バグ出し means "debugging". Depending on the context it can mean the entire process; finding the bugs and then rewriting the code so that the bug is fixed. Often the term is used for just one part of the process: usually the task of finding (and reporting) the bugs.
But it can also be used to describe the rewriting of the code. Actually, it is the same in English. The word can be used very broadly.

So for your three examples -

1. Yes your interpretation is correct. The sentence describes a lazy programmer who doesn't want his testers to find/discover any more bugs. It is causing the testers to feel stress because every time they discover a new bug the programmer gets angry at them (because he wants to be finished with the project and doesn't want to do any more programming). バグ出すな ("don't find any more bugs") is the programmer's command to the testers, and it is obviously creating a dilemma for them.

2. Again, your interpretation is correct. バグを出さない refers to writing code that doesn't have any bugs in the first place. It is a bit idiomatic - I think most people would rely on the context to understand this since バグ出し or バグを出す usually refers to the process of discovery and elimination, rather than the somewhat ephemeral concept of writing bug-free code.

3. Yes again - your intuition is correct. In contrast to the first case, this is a case where the company gets mad at testers if they don't find any bugs. Perhaps somewhat counter-intuitive since the fewer bugs the better, but for a company with high standards they know/expect the code to have bugs and so they expect their testers to thoroughly test the code and work out as many imperfections as possible.

バグ出し is the noun - debugging.
バグを出す is the action - discovering and/or removing the bug.
バグ出しする is the verb form of the noun above - to debug.
バグ出す is just an abbreviated form of バグを出す.
 

Toritoribe

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バグ出し is basically used only for "debugging", as already explained, whereas バグを出す can mean both "to produce/make bugs (unintentionally)" and "to debug".

1)
The subjects are reversed. That's a programmer's words. The testers get angry at the programmer and say バグ(を)出すな "Do not produce any bugs!" to the programmer every time they find a new bug, and then the programmer feels stress about it.
 

killerinsidee

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I have 1 more question, kind of related to the previous one. 「普通のバグならコードに落とすときに解るんだろ?チェッカーとか何とか。」I don't know what コードに落とすとき means. Apparently 落とす can mean "transfer", but I can't make sense of this phrase here. "when/at the time when (something) is transferred to the code, it will be discovered. (by) (bug)checkers or something"? A checker can be a person or some app I guess.

This is followed by sentence from the other person (technician/hacker). I can't figure out some parts of it - 「バグ出すだけやったらね。混じってんか涌いたんか、それとも後から入ってきたんかを割り出して奴やったらその痕跡、轍を追わなアカンから。」
Since this person uses 関西弁 a bit, I would guess that both of those やったら are だったら. Also, 混じってんか涌いたんか, 後から入ってきたんか = 混じっているのか涌いたか, 後から入ってきたか but no clue what the first 2 "alternatives" (marked by か) mean here. 後から入ってきたんか奴やったら should be "if something/someone got in from the back", backdoor, etc. Last part その痕跡、轍を追わなアカンから = 追わなければならない = "we must follow that trace, rut"

I guess it comes down to me not understanding what コードに落とすとき means, since バグ出すだけやったら refers to that (previous)sentence, meaning "only if it's debugging". The last sentence describes exceptions, i.e., they can't just discover it right away, they must infer - one of those 3 things which I can't figure out- and then must follow the trace, etc. Unless I'm heavily misunderstanding something. :S
 
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Toritoribe

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コードに落とす seems to mean "to rewrite a program in code" or like that there.

Isn't there a typo in 割り出して奴やったら?
 

killerinsidee

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Thanks for the reply.
Ah, I forgot this part - それとも後から入ってきたんかを割り出して、入ってきた奴やったら - http://i.imgur.com/0PhETkw.jpg
In what way do you mean "to rewrite a program in code"? I don't understand what you mean by that exactly :(
I did some searching around and found http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1298152862. While I still don't understand the meaning of it, it seems to be similar my sentences. I found these also - http://d.hatena.ne.jp/mamoruk/20131101/p1, http://koduki.hatenablog.com/entry/2014/01/15/235546. In the last link, 「仮にドキュメントより作成コストがかかってもコードに落とすべきだと考えています。」the idea is seems to be to take some data from one format and write it into a code, i.e. changing the data format, from a document to a programing code. I can't see that meaning work in my sentence, though.
Is this is some idiomatic thing or something? I found only 1 computer related definition of 落とす - 「コンピューター本体に記憶されているデータを別の媒体に移す」which doesn't seem to fit here.

Also, do you have idea ideas on the meaning of "混じってんか涌いたんか"? While I'm at it, just to confirm, are both る and の contracted into ん here 混じってん (混じってるの)? Think I've read somewhere that one ん can replace both, even in 標準語.
 
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Toritoribe

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original Kansai dialect
バグ出すだけやったらね。混じってんか涌いたんか、それとも後から入ってきたんかを割り出して、入ってきた奴やったらその痕跡、轍を追わなアカンから。

Standard Japanese
バグ出すだけだったらね。混じっていたのか涌いたのか、それとも後から入ってきたのかを割り出して、入ってきた奴だったらその痕跡、轍を追わなきゃいけないから。

後 is あと "later", not 後ろ[うしろ] "back".
The subjects of 混じっていた, 涌いた and 後から入ってきた are all "bugs (we found)".
涌く means "to be made automatically", "to happen to be made" or something along the line.

The speaker says that what they have to do is not just to find bugs. They need to distinguish the type of the bugs they found, and trace where it came from if it's 後から入ってきた奴.
(バグ出すだけだったら、コードに落とすときにチェッカーとか何とかで解るけど、そのバグが混じっていたのか涌いたのか… makes sense?)
 

killerinsidee

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Thanks for the help, it certainly makes more sense now. I don't know why I didn't notice that 混じる was in past tense *sigh*. バグ出すだけだったら、コードに落とすときにチェッカーとか何とかで解るけど、そのバグが混じっていたの か涌いたのか… should make sense imo.
Last question, since I'm already spending too much time on this and not to mention taking too much of yours too. Does 後から refer to 「コードに落とすとき」 as in, "bug that entered some time after the コードに落とすとき", possibly implying that someone planted a bug. (going by the context)?
Can you comment on what I wrote about コードに落とす and if it's wrong, clarify a bit more, "to rewrite a program in code" isn't all that clear to me.
 

Toritoribe

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後から indeed implies "someone planted a bug", but it refers to after the program was made, not after コードに落とすとき.

コードに落とす is a dialectal expression used among programmers, so this definition is not in dictionaries. "Changing the data format, from a document to a programing code" is not bad.
 
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