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もう出しています

healer

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In response to the question もう宿題を出しましたか, affirmatively one can answer with はい、もう出しています or 出してあります.

I understand that 出してあります is expressing a state resulting from the action 出す. While 出す is a transitive verb, a ~ている form of a transitive verb only indicates a present continuous action or a habitual action.

So I’m not sure here how we can answer a もう question affirmatively saying もう出しています. I must have missed something.
 

Toritoribe

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I already pointed out previously, the point is "punctual vs. durative" in ~ている form of verbs, not "intransitive vs. transitive". For instance, 忘れる is a transitive verb, but 忘れている is the present state since this is a punctual verb.

As for your example, もう is the key. もう出しています expresses the present state, not an on-going action. もう出しました also works fine, of course.
 

healer

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Sorry I’ve just had a bit of problem of remembering and identifying punctual verbs. It is quite a new concept to me.

Is there somewhere on the Internet that shows a list of Japanese punctual verbs?
 

bentenmusume

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Here's a page with some examples:
(It calls them "continuous" and "instant" rather than "durative" and "punctual", but the idea is of course the same.).

I can't say that I ever memorized a list of punctual versus durative verbs when learning the language, and I doubt many (if any) classes and instructors take this approach. I would say once you get comfortable with the idea, you start to develop a sense of which verbs are verbs based upon their meaning and the action they describe. For example 知る (to know) and 止まる (to stop) are instantaneous actions; you either know something or you don't, something is either in motion or it isn't. You might feel like it's hard to trust your intuition at this point, but that's natural because you're still learning and getting acclimated a distinction you aren't conscious of in your native language. As long as you understand the basic idea, you can expect that with experience and exposure, it will eventually click for you.
 

Toritoribe

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Whether the ~ている form of the verb can be used with 一時間 "for an hour" or not is often used to check if the verb is durative or punctual in many textbooks. For instance, there is no problem with 一時間買い物している or 一時間テレビを見ている, but 一時間死んでいる or 一時間日本に来ている are semantically odd. This method doesn't always work well, though.
 

healer

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I can't say that I ever memorized a list of punctual versus durative verbs when learning the language, and I doubt many (if any) classes and instructors take this approach.
I never heard of the terms of punctual verbs or durative verbs before Toritoribe-san mentioned them. There is nothing like them in the grammar of the English language and other languages that I have had experience of. I have not seen anywhere mentioned in the Japanese language textbooks and Japanese language web sites that I have used for my learning. It's important to know that the ~ている form of transitive verbs could represent a state I wonder why they don't introduce, definitely not in Genki textbook and another one I'm using at the moment. I think such concept is an essential basic of the language. I do appreciate Toritoribe-san's conscientious effort of letting me know.

Whether the ~ている form of the verb can be used with 一時間 "for an hour" or not is often used to check if the verb is durative or punctual in many textbooks.
Certainly this is very good way of distinguishing one from the other. They must be textbooks of higher level.
 

Toritoribe

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Actually, Genki does explain that concept of verbs and the "for an hour" checking method. They just use the terms Group 1, Group 2 and Group 3 verbs instead of state, durative/continuous and punctual/instant(instantaneous) verbs, respectively. Check again the Grammar part of the Lesson 7-1 ~ている in Genki 1.

The concept "durative vs. punctual" is also seen in English grammar.
 

healer

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Thanks for your kindness and advice. I shall go through the Genki again when I’m done with the Elementary Japanese by Yoko Hasegawa. I’m still going through them until the grammar and words therein stick or when I need a change. Well, the Genki books could have talked about durative verbs and punctual verbs “in disguise”. I’ve found the terms you use are more helpful in understanding.
Certainly there would be durative verbs and punctual verbs in all languages. However there’s specific significance in grammar for these types of verbs in the English language.
 
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