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まとめて / でしょう / 展示されている作品... / かかれて / たまには旅行でもして...

eeky

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Hello,

1. 先日まとめて買っておいた餃子を冷蔵庫に入れたまま忘 れていたんです。

My translation: "I bought some dumplings the other day, put them in the fridge and forgot about them."

What does まとめて signify here? Does it just mean that a lot of dumplings were collected together?


2. 事務員: 部屋はこの建物の208号室ですよ。玄関の ドアのそばに貼り紙がしてあったでしょう。

Is it reasonable in this instance to translate the でしょう part as "there should be a notice by the door..." -- i.e. the clerk believes this to be the case but isn't completely certain?


3. 展示されている作品はどれも目の錯覚を利用して平面の 絵の一部が飛び出したように見える。

I guess that this means something like: "The exhibited works make use of all kinds of optical illusions, and parts of the pictures seem to 'jump out' of the surface."

Is this correct? Does どれも mean "all kinds of"? Is the semantic connection between the two parts of the sentence as I've translated? It just seems faintly odd to me that the sentence should talk about all types of illusion, but then mention only one.

Also, I don't understand 平面の絵の一部. If this means "part of the surface of the picture", then why isn't it 絵の平面の一部?


4. 絵の額縁も含めてすべて壁に直接特殊なペンキを塗って かかれている。

My translation: "Everything, even including the picture frame, is painted onto the wall using a special paint."

Is かかれて = 描かれる, passive form of 描く?


5. たまには旅行でもして息抜きしないと、毎日仕事仕事じ ゃやってられないよ。

Translation given: "You can't just work all day every day. You need to break for a vacation once in a while."

I don't understand how this sentence works. To me it looks like:

たまには旅行でもして息抜きしないと = If you don't take a break and go on a trip or something once in a while,...

毎日仕事仕事じゃやってられないよ = you can't work all day every day.

In my translation, the word "If" doesn't really seem to make sense.

I'm assuming やってられない = やって + いられない (negative potential form of いる). Is that at least right?
 

Glenn

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What does まとめて signify here? Does it just mean that a lot of dumplings were collected together?

Yeah, they were all bought together/at the same time.

eeky said:
Is it reasonable in this instance to translate the でしょう part as "there should be a notice by the door..." -- i.e. the clerk believes this to be the case but isn't completely certain?

I believe so. You may want to wait to hear other views on this one, though.

eeky said:
Does どれも mean "all kinds of"?

It means "every one of (the paintings)".

eeky said:
Also, I don't understand 平面の絵の一部. If this means "part of the surface of the picture", then why isn't it 絵の平面の一部?

"Part(s) of flat-surface paintings."

eeky said:
Is かかれて = 描かれる, passive form of 描く?

Yes, I'd say that's right.

eeky said:
I'm assuming やってられない = やって + いられない (negative potential form of いる). Is that at least right?

Yes, you've got that right. You've got it all right, but やってられない has a sense of not being able to stand something or put up with something; i.e., that something is unbearable.
 

eeky

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Thanks Glenn...
You've got it all right, but やってられない has a sense of not being able to stand something or put up with something; i.e., that something is unbearable.
The conceptual problem I have with this sentence is that it seems to imply that working all day every day is tolerable if you take a holiday every so often -- but if you did so then obviously you wouldn't be working all day every day. However, I'm possibly being too pedantic. As long as I'm not misinterpreting something important in the Japanese then I'm happy!
 

Toritoribe

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2)
I think でしょう is more close to "you know?" or "don't you see that?". It's similar to でしょう in this thread. The clerk knows there certainly is a notice by the door.

3)
どれも modifies 見える; "The works all seem to...".

作品はどれも~ように見える = どの作品も~ように見える

目の錯覚を利用して modifies 飛び出した.
 

eeky

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Thanks Toritoribe.
2)
I think でしょう is more close to "you know?" or "don't you see that?".
Could you give any simple example of a sentence where でしょう does express lack of certainty? For でしょう, the dictionary says "seems; I think; I guess; I wonder; I hope; don't you agree?; I thought you'd say that!", but in any given case I have no idea at all how to tell which applies.
 

Mike Cash

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でしょう is quite often used in cases (such as the one above) where there is NO uncertainty. For example, "I told you so!" is だから言ったでしょう

It can be used in anything from a mild reproval to a chastisement to a rebuke, depending on the situation. Try to break out of the notion that deshou=uncertainty.
 

eeky

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If でしょう doesn't often (albeit, as we've seen, not always) express some degree of uncertainty, then why does WWWJDIC lead with "seems; I think; I guess; I wonder; I hope", and dic.yahoo.co.jp simply define it as "I think [suppose]"? Am I missing something here?

[Edited] Or by "Try to break out of the notion that deshou=uncertainty" maybe you meant notion that it always signifies uncertainty?
 

eeky

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[deleted accidental post of random characters]                               
 

Toritoribe

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Could you give any simple example of a sentence where 窶堙??堋オ窶堙・窶堋、 does express lack of certainty? For 窶堙??堋オ窶堙・窶堋、, the dictionary says "seems; I think; I guess; I wonder; I hope; don't you agree?; I thought you'd say that!", but in any given case I have no idea at all how to tell which applies.
This is an example of "uncertainty".

明日は晴れるでしょう。

As for my interpretation of the example sentence, it's from the clerk's words 部屋はこの建物の208号室ですよ. This sentence has a nuance of calling the addressee's attention to the thing s/he must be aware of, because of よ. The whole sentences could sound somewhat rude. I feel the clerk said it in an annoyed tone.
 
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