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ので / 消えていこうとしている / の / と

eeky

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Hello,


1. 中には、アジといえば開いて干したものしか知らないの で、アジとはひどく幅の広い魚だと思っていた人もあっ たようである。

Translation given: "When it comes to horse mackerel, there were those among them who were only familiar with the cut open and dried type, claiming that they had imagined the fish to be twice as wide as it actually is."

a) This is a very nit-picky question. I'm not sure if it even makes sense. I'm wondering whether:

i) ので has the sense of "because" -- i.e. they thought the fish was wider because they only knew the cut-open type.

ii) ので is の (nominaliser) plus で (て-form of copula), and 知らないの refers to people who only knew the cut-open type, and who (therefore) thought the fish was wider.

iii) The above two are equivalent.

b) ひどく seemed to me a strange word to use here. I suppose it is used in a diluted sense like you might say "terribly" in English, not meaning "terrible" at all in the literal sense, but just meaning "very". Is that right?


2. しかし、こうした魚の姿は、現代人の生活から消えてい こうとしているのであろうか。

Translation given: "Sadly, images of fish in their natural form are gradually vanishing from the lives of modern people, it seems."

I can't quite unravel 消えていこうとしている. Could いこう be 行こう, adding a sense of an ongoing process? What is として adding?


3. 魚ってのは要するに食べるだけってことになったんです ね。

Translation given: "Fish have become just something you eat."

What is の adding here? Is it a nominaliser like in 魚というのは? Would 魚っては... be possible?


4. 水産資源に恵まれた私たちの国では、四季折々の旬の魚 に恵まれ、秋のサンマ、サバ、初夏のアジ、カツオと季 節の味覚を楽しんだものです。

Translation given: "Ours is a country blessed by marine resources, a country of fish with flavours that signify the four seasons: saury and mackerel in the autumn, saurel and bonito in early summer."

In this sentence, does と mean "and"?
 

Toritoribe

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1) a) i)
Yes.

ii)
The meaning is correct, but the particle ので is from "の+ the particle で".

準体助詞「の」+格助詞「で」から
ので - goo辞書

7 動作・作用の原因・理由を表す。「受験勉強―暇がない」「君のおかげ―助かった」
で[格助・接助] - goo辞書

iii)
Right. It's used as とても.

2)
~(よ)うとしている: to be about to~

3)
Yes, ってのは is a colloquial form of というのは. And no, 魚っては is wrong.

4)
No. It's quotation.
 

eeky

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Hi Toritoribe, thanks for your help.

1. I guess I'm really trying to understand where is the subject of 知らない. If 知らないの was a unit, then の could be (in effect) the subject. Otherwise, the subject seems to need to be transferred all the way to 人, even across ので. Is that how it works? Is there a sense like:

開いて干したものしか知らない人

ので

アジとはひどく幅の広い魚だと思っていた人

(even if this is not good Japanese I hope you can see essentially what I am getting at)

2. Oh yeah ... I have learned that pattern ... supposedly!
 

Toritoribe

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1)
Also in English, "since being familiar only with~, they imagined~" works well when the subjects of the two clauses are the same, doesn't it?;-)
 
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eeky

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Well, strictly speaking, in English you would say "being familiar only with~, they imagined~" or "since they were familiar only with~, they imagined~". But that detail is of no matter if the sense of the Japanese is as described.
 
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