What's new

Welcome to Japan Reference (JREF) - the community for all Things Japanese.

Join Today! It is fast, simple, and FREE!

Learn Japanese with JapanesePod101.com

なっそう / だって / 尽くしがたい / たって / してたら

eeky

先輩
Joined
8 Jun 2010
Messages
2,431
Reaction score
22
Hello,

1. きのうテレビで見ましたけど、サルが百円玉拾って、自 動販売機でジュース買うようになっそうですよ。

Translation given: "Yesterday I was watching TV, and you know, it seems that there's a monkey who's gained the ability to pick up hundred yen coins and buy soft drinks!"

What is ようになっそうです? I'm guessing it may be something to do with ようになる and そうです, but I don't know exactly how it works...


2. あの缶、サルが自動販売課で買ったんだって。

Translation given: "Well, it so happens that she [the monkey] purchased the can from a vending machine."

だって is だ (copula) + って (quoting), yes?


3. In WWWJDIC, the definition of だって is

だって (conj) (1) (col) after all; because; (2) (col) but; (prt) (3) even; (4) too; as well; also; (5) they say; I hear; you mean;

Which of these are considered different usages of what is essentially the same word? Which are considered different words with different etymologies? Which meanings, if any, derive from だって = だ (copula) + って (quoting)?


4. その光景は筆舌に尽くしがたいほど美しかった。

Translation given: "The scenery was beautiful beyond description."

I understand 筆舌に尽くしがたい is a set expression meaning "beyond description", but how does it literally work, word by word?


5. そうだなあ、日本語言えなくたっていいわけだ。

Translation given: "Yeah, you're right - and this means that it's OK to forget how to speak Japanese."

Which たって is this, and what does it literally mean?


6. こんなことしてたら、話せなくなっちゃうんじゃないか と思って、わるいけど君に電話したんだ。

Translation given: "If that's the way things turn out, I began to think, won't I lose the ability to carry on a conversation? I know it's late, but I called you up."

I don't know why I'm having doubts about this, but presumably してたら must be short for していたら, right?
 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁
Moderator
Joined
22 Feb 2008
Messages
17,389
Reaction score
3,536
1)
Just a typo of なっそう

2)
Right, except a typo 自動販売.

3)
Those all have the same etymology だとて.

断定の助動詞「だ」に係助詞「とて」の付いた「だとて」の音変化という
だって - goo辞書

助詞「だって」の接続詞化したもの
だって - goo辞書

4)
筆舌: written words and spoken words(literally, pen/writing brush and tongue)

尽くしがたい; 尽くす(to do something with all one's efforts) + 難い(hard to do)

That's the same structure and meaning as 言葉にできない.

5)
過去の助動詞「た」の終止形に接続助詞「とて」の付いた「たとて」の音変化
たって - goo辞書

言えなくてもいい

6)
Right.
 
Last edited:

eeky

先輩
Joined
8 Jun 2010
Messages
2,431
Reaction score
22
Thanks Toritoribe.

3. So I understand you are saying that all those meanings -- including "they say; I hear; you mean" -- are from だとて.

Yet だ (copula) + って (quoting), as in (2), is a different "word" derived from something like だという, right?

So is it just coincidence that the second type of だって can also be reporting hearsay, a bit like "I hear"?
 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁
Moderator
Joined
22 Feb 2008
Messages
17,389
Reaction score
3,536
Etymologically, the quotational って is also from とて, and not という, even though they are sometimes interchangeable. This とて is considered to be made from the quotational と + the particle て.
 

eeky

先輩
Joined
8 Jun 2010
Messages
2,431
Reaction score
22
So is the とて (= と・て) of って etymologically different from the とて of だとて (= だって), or are they fundamentally of the same origin?
 

eeky

先輩
Joined
8 Jun 2010
Messages
2,431
Reaction score
22
Thank you, this is all very interesting to me. I would like to learn more about Japanese etymology, but it is hard to find English-language explanations, and it is too slow and difficult for me to read technical Japanese source material.

Sometime I want to ask you more about the 促音...
 
Top Bottom