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というの

zuotengdazuo

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空間の地震。空間震。
人類を、世界を蝕む理不尽極まる現象。
その原因が、あの少女だというのかーー?

Hi. What is the function of というの here? It doesn’t seem to mean anything.
Thank you.
 
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「だというのか」is like 'are you saying?' or 'so you're saying'. It's certainly a rhetorical question, not a real one. This form is often in response to someone who has provided surprising information, but it can also be used when realizing something for yourself.

Without it, as in 「その原因が、あの少女か」it would more likely be an actual question, although with the right intonation this could be a rhetorical question also.
As a rhetorical question, it's just less emphatic than the original. If it were a real question or speculating out loud, it would have to be something like this and not like the original.

Also similar is 「その原因が、あの少女だって?」 which is shorter than the original but means almost the same thing. It is more purely surprise and less disbelieving than the original.
 

zuotengdazuo

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「現段階では異常は見られません。士道にも、世界にも」
『なんと。世界を殺す災厄だぞ?その力を人間の身に封じて、何も異常が起こらないというのか

Hi. I have another example. Is the というのか in the above sentence the same usage as the the example in the op?
 

Toritoribe

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The clause preceding と, i.e., quotation is the addressee's words, so it's like これを食べろというのか and あそこに行けというのか in the thread linked below. It's just not the quotation is not imperative, i.e., not an order/a request to the speaker here.


As Chris-san already wrote, it's a rhetorical question, not a real question, so it means "Are you saying ~? (= "I can't believe it. It must be wrong." or "It's unbelievable, but it could be true.")"

As I wrote in the thread linked above, this というのか can't be omitted (at least と/って is necessary) when the quotation contains an interrogative like いつ, 何, どこ or どう. However, if these words are not in the clause, というのか can be omitted by saying it in a rising intonation.

その原因が、あの少女?
その力を人間の身に封じて、何も異常が起こらない?
これを食べろ?
あそこに行け?
(It's more common to put と or って at the end of the sentence.)

×どうしろ?
×何を食べろ?
×どこに行け?
(At least と or って is necessary.)
 

zuotengdazuo

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Hi. I seem to have found an example where the というのか is a real question.
26C8D410-7EBD-42D6-8E8F-1BB0C67992D7.jpeg

Do you also think so?
 

Toritoribe

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I think it's more likely for confirmation. It's not like he doesn't know who did it or he doesn't believe that Yoshino did it.
 

zuotengdazuo

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Thank you for your opinion. So this example is still a rhetorical question?
 

bentenmusume

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I'm not entirely sure what you mean. It's not literally asking "Are you saying that...?" since the other person didn't explicitly say those exact words.

It's the same as the figurative use of "Are you saying that~" to ask for confirmation that you hear in English.

If this is still confusing to you, you'll have to clarify exactly where your confusion lies.
 

zuotengdazuo

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Thank you. So this example is neither a real question nor a rhetorical question, right?
I seem to have confused these terms.😅
 

bentenmusume

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It would be easier if you explain exactly what you mean rather than using these terms.

Is it a literal question asking the person if they are saying certain words? No.
Whether it is a rhetorical question (meaning a question directed to oneself, not to elicit a response) or a figurative question directed at the listener is something you can only tell from context and interpretation.

It's really no different than English. If I say (figuratively) "Are you saying this is all Yoshino's fault!?" I could be saying that rhetorically, having already made up my mind (i.e. "How can you imply that this is all her fault!?"), or I could actually want an answer (i.e. "Tell me: is whatever you're saying meant to imply that this is all her fault?").

The phrase is open to both interpretations.
 

zuotengdazuo

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Thank you again. So it’s still a real question (by “real question” I’m not referring to a literal question asking the addressee/listener if they are saying certain words, but a question that is intended to get an answer from the addressee/listener).
 
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